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Old 01-31-2010, 04:04 PM   #886
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Ok, back from practice, the RB-50 worked quite well but I'm not sure I was able to use all of its potential on this tiny track. I was running it with a Speedpassion 13.5 V3. I put the timing down all the way to "0", dropped the rollout to 37 put Timeshift to 7 and turbo to 2x. However there was nobody to compare it to (all the others were running 12th scale) it seemed really fast in the infield but it felt a little flat in the straight. The motor came out 55-60C after the 5 minutes so it may be able to handle lot more gearing on a normal size track. I would say it is promising but I'll see it in a real race next weekend.
BTW attached is the layout for the next race, it is quite big of a track 30m (~100ft) by 15m (45-50ft). If you guys have any advice on how to set up the ESC that would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:24 PM   #887
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Originally Posted by TEAMWAVE View Post
RBS firmware is not compatible with RB30/50 when the time it was released. We spent 1-2 months to change the software such that it can fit to RB50 that user required. Of course you can upgrade your RB30/50 with the RBS firmware but warranty will be void and this is understandable.
How can we sell more if we say not compatible? Will people buy one more RBS because RB50 is not compatible? We don't think so. If we sell more RBS, that means we will sell less RB50. If we say it is compatible, we will sell more RB50 but less RBS....Bare in mind that the price of RB50 is higher than RBS and our profit is even higher!! The intention of RBS is offer user to have the best performance at the lowest possible price! LRP TC SPEC and SPX also share the same hardware and sell at the same price too. The different is also the firmware alone.

Greg Fisher (Cannon), please stop attacking our company and ruin our name any more as every body know you are the dealer of TEKIN and hobbywing !!!

As a lot of users are using RB50 and would like to run stock, that's why we change the firmware such that it can fit to RB50 but obviously we can't offer warranty for that since RB50 is designed for modify racing!

It is so easy to make the RBS firmware non uploadable to the RB30/50 but we haven't do that!

Clever user can read through this thread and note the intention of somebody.As a manufacturer we keep clam for long time but I think we need to say something to protect our company at this moment. We are not here to start war with anybody else but to serve our customers. Thank you.
i agree , if team wave would make the new firmware non uploadable to the old escs they have many way to do this.......team wave seems to me a little company that makes very nice products at very resonable price.


anyway i'm happy also with the RB50's single turbo on 10.5T, don't care about the last software....
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:25 PM   #888
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Default Team Wave RB-50 using RB-S Firmware 2x Turbo Test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEAMWAVE View Post
RBS firmware is not compatible with RB30/50 when the time it was released. We spent 1-2 months to change the software such that it can fit to RB50 that user required. Of course you can upgrade your RB30/50 with the RBS firmware but warranty will be void and this is understandable.
How can we sell more if we say not compatible? Will people buy one more RBS because RB50 is not compatible? We don't think so. If we sell more RBS, that means we will sell less RB50. If we say it is compatible, we will sell more RB50 but less RBS....Bare in mind that the price of RB50 is higher than RBS and our profit is even higher!! The intention of RBS is offer user to have the best performance at the lowest possible price! LRP TC SPEC and SPX also share the same hardware and sell at the same price too. The different is also the firmware alone.

Greg Fisher (Cannon), please stop attacking our company and ruin our name any more as every body know you are the dealer of TEKIN and hobbywing !!!

As a lot of users are using RB50 and would like to run stock, that's why we change the firmware such that it can fit to RB50 but obviously we can't offer warranty for that since RB50 is designed for modify racing!

It is so easy to make the RBS firmware non uploadable to the RB30/50 but we haven't do that!

Clever user can read through this thread and note the intention of somebody.As a manufacturer we keep clam for long time but I think we need to say something to protect our company at this moment. We are not here to start war with anybody else but to serve our customers. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvt01 View Post
I just uploaded the new RB-S firmware to my RB-50 and I can confirm that now I have 2x turbo and 7 timeshift profiles.
We have a practice this afternoon I will see how it feels (unfortunately this is a really tiny track with no timing).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvt01 View Post
Ok, back from practice, the RB-50 worked quite well but I'm not sure I was able to use all of its potential on this tiny track. I was running it with a Speedpassion 13.5 V3. I put the timing down all the way to "0", dropped the rollout to 37 put Timeshift to 7 and turbo to 2x. However there was nobody to compare it to (all the others were running 12th scale) it seemed really fast in the infield but it felt a little flat in the straight. The motor came out 55-60C after the 5 minutes so it may be able to handle lot more gearing on a normal size track. I would say it is promising but I'll see it in a real race next weekend.
BTW attached is the layout for the next race, it is quite big of a track 30m (~100ft) by 15m (45-50ft). If you guys have any advice on how to set up the ESC that would be greatly appreciated.

very good ,

To Make sure of this.
could you test and compare your self
when using the same RBS firmware on your RB-50
between turbo 1x and 2x perfomance
is there any differences,
if there is,
then it is realy working.


which is Great!
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:57 PM   #889
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Originally Posted by capellone24 View Post
i agree , if team wave would make the new firmware non uploadable to the old escs they have many way to do this.......team wave seems to me a little company that makes very nice products at very resonable price.


anyway i'm happy also with the RB50's single turbo on 10.5T, don't care about the last software....
You missed the point. Go back through the thread. Team Wave constantly said that the latest upgrade would not work on the earlier ESC's as the hardware was not compatible. It was only when he was caught out that he said that he changed it so it could be downloaded. How convenient.

It was just a bunch of lies.

Yes Max is trying hard to make a product but conning the buyers is not nice and the failure rate on the ESC's needs to go down a long way before you could say that they are good value. Cheap and "up in smoke" is hardly a good ESC
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:35 PM   #890
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Greg,

Firstly, your claims are a load of crap. You wouldn't have the balls to slander someone like this if they were based in Australia. You would be sued so quickly it's not funny.

Your failure rate claims of 75%...how were these derived? How many of these ESC's were sold and returned?...facts are important..not just empty claims. There seems to be a huge number of happy users of TW products and they have won some big events around the world. They are a smaller player than the 3 or 4 really big names, but are an excellent product with undeniable value. Yes there were a few early issues which seem to have been long sorted. All companies have defective products...the real issue is a company's ability to back it up with a warranty, in which case TW seem to have always come to the party. Why don't you fess up...did you grey import your TW stock or go through the proper channels?

As for the constant accusations of lies etc....early on the RB-S software was not developed for the RB30 and RB50. It's a bonus that it can now be used on the earlier ESC's. The RB-S is newer technology and it's entirely reasonable that older hardware wont work with newer firmware, and sometimes it takes a while for a patch (or call it whatever you like in computer terms) to be developed for compatibility. It's a bonus to users of the older gear that they now have the option of upgrading to twin turbo. I think Max has carried himself exceptionally well given your barrage. You are ranting and raving and to the outsider it seems like sour grapes. Stop carrying on like a school kid and trying to ruin the reputation of an up and coming company. You are obviously a bitter person and one obvious problem with forums like this is the prevalence of keyboard attacks (yes like I am sort of doing now, but it angers me to see people like Cannon who are obviously quite powerful in the Oz RC game do this). Simply because you have been denied ligitimate access to factory supported Team Wave gear, it is no reason to jump up and down claiming you've done them a favour by giving them a go, and then start bagging them out. You've had 2 cracks at it now...leave them alone. You carry on selling your Tekin product which undeniably is a very good product.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:15 PM   #891
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Originally Posted by jimmysquire007 View Post
Greg,

Firstly, your claims are a load of crap. You wouldn't have the balls to slander someone like this if they were based in Australia. You would be sued so quickly it's not funny.

Your failure rate claims of 75%...how were these derived? How many of these ESC's were sold and returned?...facts are important..not just empty claims. There seems to be a huge number of happy users of TW products and they have won some big events around the world. They are a smaller player than the 3 or 4 really big names, but are an excellent product with undeniable value. Yes there were a few early issues which seem to have been long sorted. All companies have defective products...the real issue is a company's ability to back it up with a warranty, in which case TW seem to have always come to the party. Why don't you fess up...did you grey import your TW stock or go through the proper channels?

As for the constant accusations of lies etc....early on the RB-S software was not developed for the RB30 and RB50. It's a bonus that it can now be used on the earlier ESC's. The RB-S is newer technology and it's entirely reasonable that older hardware wont work with newer firmware, and sometimes it takes a while for a patch (or call it whatever you like in computer terms) to be developed for compatibility. It's a bonus to users of the older gear that they now have the option of upgrading to twin turbo. I think Max has carried himself exceptionally well given your barrage. You are ranting and raving and to the outsider it seems like sour grapes. Stop carrying on like a school kid and trying to ruin the reputation of an up and coming company. You are obviously a bitter person and one obvious problem with forums like this is the prevalence of keyboard attacks (yes like I am sort of doing now, but it angers me to see people like Cannon who are obviously quite powerful in the Oz RC game do this). Simply because you have been denied ligitimate access to factory supported Team Wave gear, it is no reason to jump up and down claiming you've done them a favour by giving them a go, and then start bagging them out. You've had 2 cracks at it now...leave them alone. You carry on selling your Tekin product which undeniably is a very good product.



A single post??? Someone hiding behind a new alias

Lets get a few facts straight:

* Max plainly lied regarding the ability to download the software on to the RB30 and RB50. When I actrually spoke to Max (yes I spoke to him) on the phone regarding the issue he said " I need to sell ESC's not supply free software" which immediately suggested that is was downloadable but he was wanting to make more money

* Max advertised his products and promoted as being upgradable yet when the first proper upgrad was done (the RBS software) he issues a new ESC and tells everyone that they are not compatible

* When there was a small issue with the RBS software , Team Wave released an update to correct it obviously forgetting the fact that some would try to put it on their RB30's. In fact here in Australia guys who discovered that it would go on were told to please not tell anyone by the local Wave agent.

* Max claimed that the RB30 and RB50 hardware could not cope with the RBS software but now it suddenly could? Very simple ... caught out and had to change his tune. That and the constant comments from Wave owners forced his hand.

* As for where I bought the Wave ESC's. Well the first batch was bought direct from Team Wave, the second batch from a legitimate wholesaler. Just because I elect not to buy from an Australian agent means that Wave would now deny warranty on the product? If it is sold by a reseller then it should be warranted no matter what. For Wave to randomly avoid warranty is to simply avoid a warranty on the poor quality ESC's.

* It is a fact that racers here in Australia can see is that the Wave ESC's regularly go up in smoke for no obvious reason

* As for credibility, You for one obviously have none You hide behind a new alias knowing quite a few facts. Your use of the term Oz and the mention of the term "grey import" clearly indicates an Australian connection (let me guess, the Australian importer of Wave or one of his crowd hiding behind an alias) At least have the guts to post as yourself

* I simply let the racer know that Wave had been caught out. Look back at Team Waves posts constantly denying upgradability to RBS. Not once did he say I am working on a "patch". No promotion or anything. Just after the guys on the weekend discovering that it could be loaded that an announcement is made. To add to that Wave says if you download it you void your warranty ... again trying to scare the racer into buying an ESC

* The simple fact is that upgradability was advertised as available but when a true upgrade was available he would not give it. Sounds like false advertising to me

Think what you like but I am just stating the facts regarding the Team Wave products. Racers should be made aware of this.

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Old 01-31-2010, 08:51 PM   #892
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Greg,

For a start, I am not affiliated with Team Wave or the distributors in any way. I'm sure those guys would be perfectly able to make posts under there own guise. I am a computer illiterate who is participates in the Australian RC scene and casually reads through these posts. My credibility is not in question anyway.

Your accusations are unfounded...you make alot of claims without any substantiation.

Re: warranty claims, with any manufacturer of electronics a reseller is almost always required to purchase stock through the local distributor for warranty reasons..not sure why but it's the way it's done. TW are within their rights to refuse warranty service on your stock. You admit to buying through another wholesaler...who was that by the way? Was it clearance stock of the first batch?

So answer the question...how many TW ESC's (the second time around) did you sell and how many were returned.

All your other claims of Max doing backflips etc is pure hot air.

The fact is that the update has been made availible for RB30s or RB50s. Don't you think the programmers would have been able to ensure the software didn't work if they wanted to superceed the other ESCs? Your evidence is circumstantial to say the least, and citing a private phone conversation is a very low act....if this is in fact what was said. You can say whatever you like about an OS based company who's products you cant sell.....it doesn't hurt your Tekin sales does it.

You'd better be carefull with all this muckraking...one day you may well be exposed for some of your dodgy dealings. Stop being bitter about not being entitled to sell what is clearly a good product (that has had some teething issues, much like other electrical products) It's all too easy to tarnish the reputation of a good company. And it's the nature of the technology being pushed beyond it's limits and user error as much as poor workmanship as far as ESC failures are concerned so let's be realistic about things.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:09 PM   #893
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Originally Posted by jimmysquire007 View Post
Greg,

For a start, I am not affiliated with Team Wave or the distributors in any way. I'm sure those guys would be perfectly able to make posts under there own guise. I am a computer illiterate who is participates in the Australian RC scene and casually reads through these posts. My credibility is not in question anyway.

Your accusations are unfounded...you make alot of claims without any substantiation.

Re: warranty claims, with any manufacturer of electronics a reseller is almost always required to purchase stock through the local distributor for warranty reasons..not sure why but it's the way it's done. TW are within their rights to refuse warranty service on your stock. You admit to buying through another wholesaler...who was that by the way? Was it clearance stock of the first batch?

So answer the question...how many TW ESC's (the second time around) did you sell and how many were returned.

All your other claims of Max doing backflips etc is pure hot air.

The fact is that the update has been made availible for RB30s or RB50s. Don't you think the programmers would have been able to ensure the software didn't work if they wanted to superceed the other ESCs? Your evidence is circumstantial to say the least, and citing a private phone conversation is a very low act....if this is in fact what was said. You can say whatever you like about an OS based company who's products you cant sell.....it doesn't hurt your Tekin sales does it.

You'd better be carefull with all this muckraking...one day you may well be exposed for some of your dodgy dealings. Stop being bitter about not being entitled to sell what is clearly a good product (that has had some teething issues, much like other electrical products) It's all too easy to tarnish the reputation of a good company. And it's the nature of the technology being pushed beyond it's limits and user error as much as poor workmanship as far as ESC failures are concerned so let's be realistic about things.
If you had any credibility you would post under your name not hide under a new alias.

It is very easy for Wave to block the software from being used... simply dont issue it which has been the case in the past with Wave.(only one minor update which chamnged nothing) The RBS software was only quickly released because they had motors going in reverse and then racers were aware it was downloadable. Wave continually stated that the RB30 and RB50 hardware could not run the RBS software but suddenly it could. That was only stated AFTER people downloaded it

As for warranty of Team Wave, all warranty claims are handed back to Team Wave for assessment so there is no issue like in other electronics (unless of course the Australian agent has a repair centre here which is not the case)

The second batch of Wave ESC;s I bought was small (but you already knew that ) and again the failure rate was high. As I said 75%. These were bought from two wholeaslers. You saw some of the ESC's in the picture from the first batch.

As for muckraking your casual comment of "dodgy dealings" is an attempt to cast me as doing something wrong. Bad form

I simply let the racer know that the upgradability was available but was being portrayed otherwise. None of the "now upgradable" was mentioned until after the announcement. And Wave says it will void warranty on ESC's that you download the software !!!!!

As for selling the ESC's, there are plenty of legitimate wholesalers I could get them from. Unfortunately the reliability and the software issue is enough to ensure I will not sell anymore

Unfortunately there are more sidesteps here from Wave and the single poster than a football match
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:19 PM   #894
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Hi TW owners

I just finished a local race today. Luckily i was able to squeeze in the A main for VTA and B main for 17.5 class. I was running the RB-30 for VTA and RBS for 17.5. I need some help on keeping up with the Tekin ESC's. I was running a 4.6 FDR on the 21.5 (NOVAK) the Tekins had alot of power on mid to top (95 ft straight) and lots of punch in the infield. I had the same FDR as the Tekin ESC (buddy of mine) the motor was at 130F. I did go to 4.25 FDR and it did not make any difference but when i went to 4.9 it flat out mid to top and i felt i was just cruisng. Setting was Turbo On with max time shift.

On my 17.5 (TW Linear) my setup was turbo 2 on time shift max. 5.0 FDR and it also flats our mid to top so the tekins eat me on the straing and initial punch infield. temp did hit 150F

Any Suggestions? i did update both esc's with the latest update. Should i gear higher on both 21.5 and 17.5? I had to keep my line real tight so that they could not pass me easily but i can only do so much and ofcourse have to let them go

Thanks !

BTW Thanks Max for the quick shipping!
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:00 PM   #895
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Greg, once again I state that my credibility isn't the issue here. I am remaining anonymous as I can see how you sink your boot into people undeservedly and don't want you to hound me down also based on some personal vendetta. You have said your peace time and time again...never satisfied until you have the last word, and I expect that you'll continue to troll this TW thread for months or years to come, but this thread really should be a forum for TW users to help each other with settings etc. Perhaps I should get onto the feralbatteries thread and start throwing sh1t around willy nilly and try to cost you some sales.

I wouldn't have a clue how many TW ESC's you purchased and sold, but my point is that you can't make sweeping statements like 75% failure rates from a tiny sample, as it's not representative of the true picture. I would doubt that anything like 75% of TW stuff fails...it may be 5% for all you know. If you bought 4 and 3 failed well that's not great, but bad production batches happen for all sorts of reasons. The next 20 batches may have no failure rates at all...this happens in mass production.

My problem is that you are calling the TW product crap based on a tiny sample of grey imported stock sourced from god knows who, and also claiming that TW are a bunch of shonks, based on your opinion only of the software updates.

TW (as with any company) are entitled to release new products for progress sake, and they aren't obliged to update their old products to meet the performance of their new ones, yet they have. And you being the cynical type you are, look for all sorts of evil agendas in the service offered by Team Wave. I honestly don't know why you are so anti Team Wave, but I have my very strong suspicions. In my view they are trying to offer a product equivalent in performance to Tekin, LRP etc at a better price and the RB-S is simply an evolution of the previous model in an attempt to stay competetive. So I honestly don't know what your problem is, but I wouldn't be at all suprised to see you stock them in the future again if there is a buck to be made.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:51 PM   #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmysquire007 View Post
I wouldn't have a clue how many TW ESC's you purchased and sold, but my point is that you can't make sweeping statements like 75% failure rates from a tiny sample, as it's not representative of the true picture. I would doubt that anything like 75% of TW stuff fails...it may be 5% for all you know. If you bought 4 and 3 failed well that's not great, but bad production batches happen for all sorts of reasons. The next 20 batches may have no failure rates at all...this happens in mass production.

.

Good quote. Only Team Wave people knew that I bought 4 ESC's from the one supplier that I told Team Wave about. The fact that you quoted 4 is a good indication that you are closely aligned with the Team Wave. Just show some honesty Paul, Darren or Troy

Unfortunately for me I brought another 8 supplied by another wholesaler only to find that 9 out of the total 12 have failed. That is not a good average in anyones books. Add to that the number that have gone up in smoke at the track by others and it is not good.

All ESC's purchased have been bought from large Wave wholesalers so no issue there.

The simple fact that you completely ignore is that Team Wave advertised and promoted the fact that the Wave ESC was upgradable yet the first opportunity and they issue a new ESC. It is false advertising compounded by the fact that when caught out he says that the earlier ESC's can be upgraded now.

As for this thread being for TW users .. yes I am informing the TW users who complained about the fact that they were offered upgradable ESC's and it didn't happen.

No doubt you have been enlisted to defend the Wave line and that is fine.

And the "hunt you down , personal vendetta " rubbish .. high drama at best from you

Enjoy your racing
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:00 AM   #897
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Good quote. Only Team Wave people knew that I bought 4 ESC's from the one supplier that I told Team Wave about. The fact that you quoted 4 is a good indication that you are closely aligned with the Team Wave. Just show some honesty Paul, Darren or Troy

Unfortunately for me I brought another 8 supplied by another wholesaler only to find that 9 out of the total 12 have failed. That is not a good average in anyones books. Add to that the number that have gone up in smoke at the track by others and it is not good.

All ESC's purchased have been bought from large Wave wholesalers so no issue there.

The simple fact that you completely ignore is that Team Wave advertised and promoted the fact that the Wave ESC was upgradable yet the first opportunity and they issue a new ESC. It is false advertising compounded by the fact that when caught out he says that the earlier ESC's can be upgraded now.

As for this thread being for TW users .. yes I am informing the TW users who complained about the fact that they were offered upgradable ESC's and it didn't happen.

No doubt you have been enlisted to defend the Wave line and that is fine.

And the "hunt you down , personal vendetta " rubbish .. high drama at best from you

Enjoy your racing
You made your point loud and clear....can we just move on....
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:23 AM   #898
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Greg,

I can guarantee I am not Paul, Darren or Troy and have not been elisted by Team Wave. The 3 of 4 was a lucky guess and my simplest mathematical deduction, but it's not truly representative of any product to take such a small sample and quote this as fact.

I don't intend to keep defending TW but I think you are giving them a very unfair wrap. I only hope that some satisfied users speak up to balance the arguement a little.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:32 AM   #899
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Dear Cannon (Greg?),

kindly leave this tread, if you don't like TW products for any reasons, those are your problems, we are loving their products and we like discuss how to improve their performance and Max of TW is giving us all requested support.
I don't know where you live and which is your activity, it seems that you are a dealer, this is not a good policy, be sure i'll never buy an item from you.
Regarding the warranty assistance, i bought directly from them both the rb50 and rbs as here in Italy they don't have any dealer, at the begining i had a problem with the rb50 and TW replaced it with no expences, the only thing that they requested was the faulty esc back in order to check the problem.
What i have to say? Great assistance, great products, great company

Just to be clear my full name is:
Massimiliano Taddei
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:43 AM   #900
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Max or Mass?

Glad you are happy with your RB50 and RB-S

It was nothing to do with warranty ... just to do with upgrades

Max at Wave always supplied replacements ... just these failed as well

I will leave you Wave owners to diuscuss settings etc.

As I said originally it was just to inform you regarding what had hapened re upgrades
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