SMC 28C 4000/5000 Hardcase Lipo part 2
#961
Tech Lord
iTrader: (32)
The damage done by regular overcharging is cumulative. That is, over time, the battery becomes more dangerous and volatile, increasing the chance of a fire. Whether or not it would play out like that with these packs in the real world is up for debate, I suppose. Just because it doesn't burn up the first time doesn't mean it won't the 50th time. Be smart. Don't cheat.
#962
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
Is this enough to make people want to stop this??
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/man-burned.jpg
Last edited by Verndog; 08-05-2008 at 06:29 AM. Reason: removed pic to link
#963
Tech Champion
iTrader: (168)
100.00% 4.20 8.40 12.60
90 4.13 8.26 12.39
80 4.06 8.12 12.18
70 3.99 7.98 11.97
60 3.92 7.84 11.76
50 3.85 7.70 11.55
40 3.78 7.56 11.34
30 3.71 7.42 11.13
20 3.64 7.28 10.92
10 3.57 7.14 10.71
0.00% 3.50 7.00 10.50
If the packs are over the 7.5V I have found that discharging the SMC packs to 7.4V at .8C (4A for the 5000 and 3.2A for the 4000) will leave them ending up at 7.5V (resting) for an estimated 35% charge.
If they are already under 7.5V charge 'em up a bit then discharge as above.
The .8C wa determined by experiment to see what discharge rate would leave them at 35% with a 7.4V discharge cutoff.
#964
Tech Master
iTrader: (19)
Exactly. And at the club racing level or even local event level I dont see that happening, especially if they already dont check for approved motors and weights. Likely it will take a burned face, death or some catastrophic event to get serious on this issue. Hope its not me, or someone I'm close to.
Is this enough to make people want to stop this??
Is this enough to make people want to stop this??
By the way, I have run the SMC 5000 the last two race weekends and these batteries are awsome. Especially when I peak them at 10 amps prior to the main.
#965
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
While I agree that it is important to charge Lipos via the recommended methods, I think your illustration is a little extreme. I also don't see the same over sensationalized statements being made about NiMh. If ever there were a reason to make such statements it would be against these batteries. How many Nimh batteries have you seen violently explode versos lipo? My guess is you would be lucky to have seen a lipo even fail let alone explode yet it is somewhat of a common occurance to have a Nimh pop at local events.
You may think that illustration is extreem but is it? A LiPo burns hotter, longer and more extreem then the quick boom / pop of a nimh. Here is a pic of what a lipo fire did to a car and the work area...tell me you've seen even close to that damage with NiMh...then tell me that pic is extreem.
#966
Tech Master
iTrader: (19)
IMO there is good reason for the fact you haven't seen a LiPo fire. Most people are following the safety rules of charging. Listen around and you'll find that isn't always the case. My point is only being made on intentional overcharges. Overall lipos are safer and there will be less incidents....until people begin to push the window and ignore the rules.
You may think that illustration is extreem but is it? A LiPo burns hotter, longer and more extreem then the quick boom / pop of a nimh. Here is a pic of what a lipo fire did to a car and the work area...tell me you've seen even close to that damage with NiMh...then tell me that pic is extreem.
You may think that illustration is extreem but is it? A LiPo burns hotter, longer and more extreem then the quick boom / pop of a nimh. Here is a pic of what a lipo fire did to a car and the work area...tell me you've seen even close to that damage with NiMh...then tell me that pic is extreem.
Nice picture, though I have seen worse with a Nimh fire when a cell vented and caught fire in the back of someones vehicle. Also why don't you post a link to the story behind this photo?
And, what was this person doing running Lipo in a 1/12th?
#967
Tech Master
iTrader: (19)
Found it on my own. It's funny that you post pics that illustrate your overcharging of Lipos but in fact the story behind the fire is far from that.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...&postcount=168
catastrophic yes, due to overcharging no. And 50 cycles with a drop to 2950 mAh? Sounds like a bad pack to start with.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...&postcount=168
catastrophic yes, due to overcharging no. And 50 cycles with a drop to 2950 mAh? Sounds like a bad pack to start with.
#968
Super Moderator
iTrader: (2)
Yes I still think it's extreme. I do agree with your description of a Lipo fire but the only way that this would fit your description is if the person was sleeping on the Lipo while it was being charged. More appropriately a Lipo fire has more to do with the facility burning down than individual harm. The reverse is true for a Nimh explosion
Nice picture, though I have seen worse with a Nimh fire when a cell vented and caught fire in the back of someones vehicle. Also why don't you post a link to the story behind this photo?
And, what was this person doing running Lipo in a 1/12th?
Nice picture, though I have seen worse with a Nimh fire when a cell vented and caught fire in the back of someones vehicle. Also why don't you post a link to the story behind this photo?
And, what was this person doing running Lipo in a 1/12th?
#969
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
Yes I still think it's extreme. I do agree with your description of a Lipo fire but the only way that this would fit your description is if the person was sleeping on the Lipo while it was being charged. More appropriately a Lipo fire has more to do with the facility burning down than individual harm. The reverse is true for a Nimh explosion
Nice picture, though I have seen worse with a Nimh fire when a cell vented and caught fire in the back of someones vehicle. Also why don't you post a link to the story behind this photo?
And, what was this person doing running Lipo in a 1/12th?
Nice picture, though I have seen worse with a Nimh fire when a cell vented and caught fire in the back of someones vehicle. Also why don't you post a link to the story behind this photo?
And, what was this person doing running Lipo in a 1/12th?
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...&postcount=955
I doubt sleeping on a lipo is required for serious injury / burns....ever seen someone lean over the table to see charger status?...measure distance from their face to the lipo that nobody is enforcing sacks to charge.
If all your comparisons with nimh are true, where are all the nimh sacks, and why are they allowed to air transport nimh but not the majority of lipo??
#970
Tech Master
iTrader: (19)
The pic is not to illustrate overcharging, where do I say that? I said this is a pic of a lipo fire, only meaning to show the potential damage that can occur once a lipo has ignited. Go back and read my earlier posts, I'm asking how much risk, and would like to avoid being burned blinded or worse.
I doubt sleeping on a lipo is required for serious injury / burns....ever seen someone lean over the table to see charger status?...measure distance from their face to the lipo that nobody is enforcing sacks to charge.
If all your comparisons with nimh are true, where are all the nimh sacks, and why are they allowed to air transport nimh but not the majority of lipo??
Don't get me wrong I thing you're right regarding the seamingly lack of concern, I just think you are going about it the wrong way.
#971
This thread is supposed to be about the SMC 4000/5000 lipo packs. I didn't expect it to be hijacked with thoughts about the safety of lipos...A separate topic.
Please, please, please...Start your own thread about the lipo safety aspect and have at it.
Thanks. From a guy that always charges his lipos in a sack.
Please, please, please...Start your own thread about the lipo safety aspect and have at it.
Thanks. From a guy that always charges his lipos in a sack.
#972
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
This thread is supposed to be about the SMC 4000/5000 lipo packs. I didn't expect it to be hijacked with thoughts about the safety of lipos...A separate topic.
Please, please, please...Start your own thread about the lipo safety aspect and have at it.
Thanks. From a guy that always charges his lipos in a sack.
Please, please, please...Start your own thread about the lipo safety aspect and have at it.
Thanks. From a guy that always charges his lipos in a sack.
If people want to turn a blind eye to it today fine, hopefully they wont have to turn 2 blind eyes to it tomarrow. I'm done with it...back to SMC related posts.
#973
Someone posted a table on HobbyTalk a while back that showed resting voltage vs state of charge (or discharge). Here it is:
100.00% 4.20 8.40 12.60
90 4.13 8.26 12.39
80 4.06 8.12 12.18
70 3.99 7.98 11.97
60 3.92 7.84 11.76
50 3.85 7.70 11.55
40 3.78 7.56 11.34
30 3.71 7.42 11.13
20 3.64 7.28 10.92
10 3.57 7.14 10.71
0.00% 3.50 7.00 10.50
If the packs are over the 7.5V I have found that discharging the SMC packs to 7.4V at .8C (4A for the 5000 and 3.2A for the 4000) will leave them ending up at 7.5V (resting) for an estimated 35% charge.
If they are already under 7.5V charge 'em up a bit then discharge as above.
The .8C wa determined by experiment to see what discharge rate would leave them at 35% with a 7.4V discharge cutoff.
100.00% 4.20 8.40 12.60
90 4.13 8.26 12.39
80 4.06 8.12 12.18
70 3.99 7.98 11.97
60 3.92 7.84 11.76
50 3.85 7.70 11.55
40 3.78 7.56 11.34
30 3.71 7.42 11.13
20 3.64 7.28 10.92
10 3.57 7.14 10.71
0.00% 3.50 7.00 10.50
If the packs are over the 7.5V I have found that discharging the SMC packs to 7.4V at .8C (4A for the 5000 and 3.2A for the 4000) will leave them ending up at 7.5V (resting) for an estimated 35% charge.
If they are already under 7.5V charge 'em up a bit then discharge as above.
The .8C wa determined by experiment to see what discharge rate would leave them at 35% with a 7.4V discharge cutoff.