SMC 28C 4000/5000 Hardcase Lipo part 2
02-24-2008, 08:58 PM
#256
02-24-2008, 10:16 PM
#258
Danny: How do your lipos fit in offroad vehicles like the B4 and T4?
Thanks.
Thanks.
02-25-2008, 12:20 AM
#259
I found the reptile heat pads to not work very well. At least the ones I have. They seemed to burn themselves out after a little lipo-heating duty time. Maybe they hold up better when stuck to an animal cage.
As for the heat... yeah it's a good thing, to a point. I believe running a lipo around 100F is better for it than running it at like 60F because it's "happier" and not working as hard.
As for the heat... yeah it's a good thing, to a point. I believe running a lipo around 100F is better for it than running it at like 60F because it's "happier" and not working as hard.
02-25-2008, 07:10 AM
#260
ON the whole charger and voltage thing. I charged my maxamps 5000 mah lipo with a Pulsar 3 at 5.5 amps and when it shut of I check the batt with a dvm and it read 8.43. Guess it don't get any closer than that. That was with the stock leads on the charger. Thanks to all who have posted their thoghts on here.
02-25-2008, 07:13 AM
#261
I can totally see coming out with a lipo sack with a built in heater and temperature monitor. If the heat gets beyond say 180 degrees, an alarm goes off.
02-25-2008, 07:59 AM
#263
Tech Fanatic
Way ahead of ya......
02-25-2008, 08:00 AM
#264
Danny, have you been doing any in depth testing (like you have been doing with the lipo's) of the Ener-G cells ? I run SMC500 lipo's and heat to 120 deg after charging (but no over charge) and was happy with them until one guy showed up with two packs of 4600 Ener-G cells and walked away from all the lipo guys. Really was an eye opener.
This is 13.5 TC foam.
Looks like round cells aren't dead yet !
This is 13.5 TC foam.
Looks like round cells aren't dead yet !
02-25-2008, 08:02 AM
#265
Danny, have you been doing any in depth testing (like you have been doing with the lipo's) of the Ener-G cells ? I run SMC500 lipo's and heat to 120 deg after charging (but no over charge) and was happy with them until one guy showed up with two packs of 4600 Ener-G cells and walked away from all the lipo guys. Really was an eye opener.
This is 13.5 TC foam.
Looks like round cells aren't dead yet !
This is 13.5 TC foam.
Looks like round cells aren't dead yet !
Last edited by Tornado_Racing; 02-25-2008 at 08:16 AM.
02-25-2008, 08:14 AM
#266
The 4000 and 5000 will fit on offroad cars but you will need to cut a small part of the battery channel wall to allow the wires to come out. There was simply no way for us to get the wires to come out on top. So to fit in offroad battery channels a small slot will need to be cut.
02-25-2008, 08:17 AM
#267
Danny, have you been doing any in depth testing (like you have been doing with the lipo's) of the Ener-G cells ? I run SMC500 lipo's and heat to 120 deg after charging (but no over charge) and was happy with them until one guy showed up with two packs of 4600 Ener-G cells and walked away from all the lipo guys. Really was an eye opener.
This is 13.5 TC foam.
Looks like round cells aren't dead yet !
This is 13.5 TC foam.
Looks like round cells aren't dead yet !
02-25-2008, 08:21 AM
#268
02-25-2008, 11:06 AM
#269
4wd,
What kind of voltage numbers are you seeing on the "other" chargers after charging? I ask because I use CE equipment and mine are coming off right at the 8.4+ mark and a friend of mine is using one of the other top brands and his cells are coming off in the mid 8.3's. A significant difference in performance according to the research that Danny and Tony have performed.
It appears from the three chagers that I have access to that Competition Electronics is the only one that has done it right. I'm sure that some of the Lipo only charger manufacturers that are out there have made a correction for this also.
Seen the results of overcharging a LIPO first hand. DO NOT DO IT!!! The old adage if 8.7 is good 8.8 is better and so on will have you looking at the insides of a hardcase battery in no time.
What kind of voltage numbers are you seeing on the "other" chargers after charging? I ask because I use CE equipment and mine are coming off right at the 8.4+ mark and a friend of mine is using one of the other top brands and his cells are coming off in the mid 8.3's. A significant difference in performance according to the research that Danny and Tony have performed.
It appears from the three chagers that I have access to that Competition Electronics is the only one that has done it right. I'm sure that some of the Lipo only charger manufacturers that are out there have made a correction for this also.
Seen the results of overcharging a LIPO first hand. DO NOT DO IT!!! The old adage if 8.7 is good 8.8 is better and so on will have you looking at the insides of a hardcase battery in no time.
02-25-2008, 12:17 PM
#270
To clarify on that question, the CE GFX that I have here properly in the shop charges the Lipo pack at the correct voltage near the 8.40 mark with the sensors wire used (properly soldered on of course), however the GFX improperly charges the Lipo past the 8.40 mark when the sensors wires aren't used or if the user happens to forget or omit those sensor wires during the charge process. That’s when a potential problem/issue occurs. If you remember and use those sensors wires all the time, you will have no issues whatsoever far as charging Lipo’s goes with the GFX. That being said, I would prefer seeing a sensor wire used with ALL chargers on the market though, but CE is the well-known one that utilizes this.
You are correct though about other off-brand chargers (some of them, not all, lol) on the market taking this difference into consideration in their software, but only if they did their homework and research prior to releasing their respective Lipo chargers to build this voltage difference in their chargers to have the charger read slightly higher at the charger base, (for the fixed wire length used supplied with the charger) in order for it to come out near the 8.400 mark at the battery end at the conclusion of the cc/cv charging process..
Other smaller pit sized chargers on the market, for instance the Checkpoint I used in my example, held the actual charge current slightly higher than the 8.40 mark near the end of the charge, because for one thing the sensor wires aren’t used (to compensate for the slight voltage differences from the charger base to the battery itself). So when taken off the charge here, off the Checkpoint, the voltage reading of the Lipo pack does actually read at the 8.40 mark correctly, however as the battery is given rest and stabilizes for a while without being used, the voltage level does drop below 8.40 as any other battery would regardless of charger used. So I wouldn't worry about performance difference if the voltage is at 8.38/8.41, as there are other factors that affect performance more to an extent, heat of the Lipo battery for one prior to a discharge process (or race) for instance plays a larger role in the outcome of the discharge data’s numbers.
(If you used a off-brand (meaning not CE GFX) Lipo charger, and the Lipo taken off the charge has a number in the mid 8.3x range, I would think the charger doesn’t have the best software for doing this procedure as the charger isn’t correctly reading the numbers the charger base, and the software doesn’t take this difference into consideration etc.)
However think about it this way, if you’re using an off-brand charger that reads exactly 8.400 vlt at the charger base, chances are that at the battery end, the Lipo will read slightly well below 8.400 vlt (low or mid range of 8.3x for instance) when taken off the charge because it’s probably was being charged on the low end of the cv charge (not the full 8.400 charge etc). And vice versa if you’re using another off-brand charger, but the voltage reads slightly above 8.400 at the charger base, you could maybe safely assume that the Lipo battery is being charge at a near perfect 8.400 at the battery end in that case, (because the charger has already taken into consideration the voltage drop of the charge current from the charger base to the battery end, etc.) So one could see how manufacturer try to design their charger’s software (for those chargers that doesn't use the external sensor wires) to account for this difference, and properly charge the Lipo.
You could however check chargers around the pits during either race or practice day and use a high-end voltmeter to check for this. It’s easily done to see the results for yourself to see which one is better and more accurate than the other.
That being said, I still prefer to leave my bulky CE GFX, much as I love it, (it takes up too much considerable space in the car, pit boxes, and it's a fairly heavy and a large unit to move around, or set in front of you) and I prefer to take my smaller Checkpoint with me when I go to the tracks. I think that’s pretty much the idea of Lipo’s to come, smaller single effective charger with at least three Lipo packs to get you through the day, lol. I do like the GFX for working with my NiMh’s here though above all though and some other testing, but I have enough equipment to haul to the track as it is now to warrant leaving the GFX home, unless I was going to a National event or something.
One more thing, lol, I trust the voltage meter on the CE GFX as it’s very accurate (we would hope so for all the money we paid for it, lol), the Checkpoint does seem pretty accurate to me when I checked for it. I probably would not trust the voltmeter in some other off-brand charger, so when in doubt, use your own trusted voltage meter to check for this! I probably went in more detail and typed more than I should have, but that would help to clarify it some for some readers on the forums. I hope.
You are correct though about other off-brand chargers (some of them, not all, lol) on the market taking this difference into consideration in their software, but only if they did their homework and research prior to releasing their respective Lipo chargers to build this voltage difference in their chargers to have the charger read slightly higher at the charger base, (for the fixed wire length used supplied with the charger) in order for it to come out near the 8.400 mark at the battery end at the conclusion of the cc/cv charging process..
Other smaller pit sized chargers on the market, for instance the Checkpoint I used in my example, held the actual charge current slightly higher than the 8.40 mark near the end of the charge, because for one thing the sensor wires aren’t used (to compensate for the slight voltage differences from the charger base to the battery itself). So when taken off the charge here, off the Checkpoint, the voltage reading of the Lipo pack does actually read at the 8.40 mark correctly, however as the battery is given rest and stabilizes for a while without being used, the voltage level does drop below 8.40 as any other battery would regardless of charger used. So I wouldn't worry about performance difference if the voltage is at 8.38/8.41, as there are other factors that affect performance more to an extent, heat of the Lipo battery for one prior to a discharge process (or race) for instance plays a larger role in the outcome of the discharge data’s numbers.
(If you used a off-brand (meaning not CE GFX) Lipo charger, and the Lipo taken off the charge has a number in the mid 8.3x range, I would think the charger doesn’t have the best software for doing this procedure as the charger isn’t correctly reading the numbers the charger base, and the software doesn’t take this difference into consideration etc.)
However think about it this way, if you’re using an off-brand charger that reads exactly 8.400 vlt at the charger base, chances are that at the battery end, the Lipo will read slightly well below 8.400 vlt (low or mid range of 8.3x for instance) when taken off the charge because it’s probably was being charged on the low end of the cv charge (not the full 8.400 charge etc). And vice versa if you’re using another off-brand charger, but the voltage reads slightly above 8.400 at the charger base, you could maybe safely assume that the Lipo battery is being charge at a near perfect 8.400 at the battery end in that case, (because the charger has already taken into consideration the voltage drop of the charge current from the charger base to the battery end, etc.) So one could see how manufacturer try to design their charger’s software (for those chargers that doesn't use the external sensor wires) to account for this difference, and properly charge the Lipo.
You could however check chargers around the pits during either race or practice day and use a high-end voltmeter to check for this. It’s easily done to see the results for yourself to see which one is better and more accurate than the other.
That being said, I still prefer to leave my bulky CE GFX, much as I love it, (it takes up too much considerable space in the car, pit boxes, and it's a fairly heavy and a large unit to move around, or set in front of you) and I prefer to take my smaller Checkpoint with me when I go to the tracks. I think that’s pretty much the idea of Lipo’s to come, smaller single effective charger with at least three Lipo packs to get you through the day, lol. I do like the GFX for working with my NiMh’s here though above all though and some other testing, but I have enough equipment to haul to the track as it is now to warrant leaving the GFX home, unless I was going to a National event or something.
One more thing, lol, I trust the voltage meter on the CE GFX as it’s very accurate (we would hope so for all the money we paid for it, lol), the Checkpoint does seem pretty accurate to me when I checked for it. I probably would not trust the voltmeter in some other off-brand charger, so when in doubt, use your own trusted voltage meter to check for this! I probably went in more detail and typed more than I should have, but that would help to clarify it some for some readers on the forums. I hope.
Last edited by 4wd Racer; 02-25-2008 at 12:22 PM. Reason: grammar