SMC 28C 4000/5000 Hardcase Lipo part 2
12-09-2008, 07:36 PM
#1561
After you race them how much charge is left in them until the next week ?
Where are you attaching the voltage sensing leads when cycling ?
You may want to try another cycle on them as I have found when packs stay sitting for awhile with storage charge the first cycle on them isn't at it's best. Capacity is o.k. but typically the IR and voltage will improve some.
Here are numbers from a new 5000 that I cycled last week. It was cycled and packaged and ready to ship out to fill out orders. It was cycled 7 days before I cycled it here at home on my personal GFX.
Voltage sensing leads attached on the 12 gauge wires on the pack sied of the Deans connector. Pack temp prior to cycling 71 degrees.
Numbers on the packs packaging: 510 - 7.36 - 7.4
1st cycle: 510 -7.33 - 7.1
2nd cycle: 510-7.35 - 6.5
I have been called our recently on the numbers provided on our packs by one of our competitors. This pack shows that there is differences in GFXs. My GFX seems to be picky on average voltage but better on IR compared to the GFX that this pack was cycled on in our cycling room. I also think the time the pack stays inactive with storage charge and the amount of storage charge also has an effect on the numbers.
Where are you attaching the voltage sensing leads when cycling ?
You may want to try another cycle on them as I have found when packs stay sitting for awhile with storage charge the first cycle on them isn't at it's best. Capacity is o.k. but typically the IR and voltage will improve some.
Here are numbers from a new 5000 that I cycled last week. It was cycled and packaged and ready to ship out to fill out orders. It was cycled 7 days before I cycled it here at home on my personal GFX.
Voltage sensing leads attached on the 12 gauge wires on the pack sied of the Deans connector. Pack temp prior to cycling 71 degrees.
Numbers on the packs packaging: 510 - 7.36 - 7.4
1st cycle: 510 -7.33 - 7.1
2nd cycle: 510-7.35 - 6.5
I have been called our recently on the numbers provided on our packs by one of our competitors. This pack shows that there is differences in GFXs. My GFX seems to be picky on average voltage but better on IR compared to the GFX that this pack was cycled on in our cycling room. I also think the time the pack stays inactive with storage charge and the amount of storage charge also has an effect on the numbers.
12-09-2008, 07:41 PM
#1562
Danny- Its true, every gfx is a little different, you just can't perfect that kind of calibration, wire length, cleanliness of board solders, all kinds of things.
As long as you cycle on the same charger for personal use, the better pack, will be the better pack.
I'm sure you know this....just re itterating for others lol
As long as you cycle on the same charger for personal use, the better pack, will be the better pack.
I'm sure you know this....just re itterating for others lol
12-09-2008, 07:46 PM
#1563
I know that but some need to understand that when trying to compare numbers. Like I said getting called out when I know were putting the numbers as they come of our GFXs is why I'm talking about this. We use 6 GFXs in house to cycle packs. The goal with cycling our packs is to make sure they meet what we feel to be the minimum specs and make sure there is no issues with them. This is extra time and cost but we never wanted this to be about precision of the numbers. It's more a reference point.
12-09-2008, 07:50 PM
#1564
I know that but some need to understand that when trying to compare numbers. Like I said getting called out when I know were putting the numbers as they come of our GFXs is why I'm talking about this. We use 6 GFXs in house to cycle packs. The goal with cycling our packs is to make sure they meet what we feel to be the minimum specs and make sure there is no issues with them. This is extra time and cost but we never wanted this to be about precision of the numbers. It's more a reference point.
12-09-2008, 10:36 PM
#1565
Tech Adept
Hi
I thought charging at more than 1C, reduced cycle life on the pack?.
Also on a 5000mah 28C, what should the storage charge be, if racing every other week?. Is it fine to charge the lipo straight after use without letting it cool?
Thanks Ya`All
I thought charging at more than 1C, reduced cycle life on the pack?.
Also on a 5000mah 28C, what should the storage charge be, if racing every other week?. Is it fine to charge the lipo straight after use without letting it cool?
Thanks Ya`All
12-09-2008, 10:48 PM
#1566
That's something I realized after cycling and documenting the numbers. I ran the first two packs last night and haven't run the third pack for about 10 days prior to the cycle.
I usually leave about 1500 to 2000 Mah in the packs, but was talking to Jack and he was telling me the packs can be stored at 6.7-6.9 and yield better results but the overall lifespan of the battery would suffer.
My voltage leads aren't as accurate as I would like (they are deans connectors coming off the equinox on the battery side), I cant seem to find a way to use alligator clips and keep the battery in the sack?
I'm going to put another cycle on the third pack now and post the results in an hour or so.
Casey
I usually leave about 1500 to 2000 Mah in the packs, but was talking to Jack and he was telling me the packs can be stored at 6.7-6.9 and yield better results but the overall lifespan of the battery would suffer.
My voltage leads aren't as accurate as I would like (they are deans connectors coming off the equinox on the battery side), I cant seem to find a way to use alligator clips and keep the battery in the sack?
I'm going to put another cycle on the third pack now and post the results in an hour or so.
Casey
12-10-2008, 06:48 AM
#1567
If you race every couple of weeks you should store your packs discharged at 35 amps down to 6 volts. This actually leaves storage charge as capacity isn't fully removed from a high amp discharge. To see what I'm saying next time you have a pack that is discharged at 35 amps set your GFX at 6 volts with a 5 amp discharge and discharge the pack again. You will see there will be some capacity left.
12-10-2008, 02:52 PM
#1569
Here is an update on what SMC has in store as far as racing Lipos.
In the last few months there has been a breakthrough with one of the chemicals used in making Lipos. This means higher C rates are now possible. This material has been around for 6 months or so but wasn't stable. Just recently it has become stable.
Our 28C packs have been leading the way for the past 10 month and we could of released improvements earlier but we didn't feel it was needed as no others had caught up to our packs. With this new material we feel it's now the time to release our next generation of racing Lipos as we have seen some of our competitors have caught up and even passed our 10 month old 28C packs.
The reason why the new improved packs haven't been released yet is that our supplier is working on another potential improvement that would be beneficial to performance. This improvement is currently being tested for reliability and stability. Testing should conclude in a few days which will allow us to make a final decision on the new packs we will release. It would of not made since to rush and release new packs only to have another improvement 1 month later.
Since TP has released there new 40C/5000 we decided to ask our supplier to send us some 40C packs for testing. In the past six months we have gotten some 33 and 35C samples and decided not to release them. For those who gave me some grief on the False Lipo advertising thread that I started saying we were bashing others because we didn't have access to higher C rate packs were wrong. If you read some of my posts I said that we weren't going to release 35C packs as when I did these posts I was well aware that 40C+ was possible and we could release such a pack. So to all the guys who doubted me please read this post and understand that we do have access to the latest and greatest and we have full confidence that we will remain the leader in high performance Lipos.
So we did receive 5 packs to test today. Four packs are from our supplier using the new chemical to build some 40C/2S2P packs. The other pack is a brand new TP40C/5000/2S2P pack.
Normally I wouldn't post numbers from our competitors due to differences in testing setup , temperature and other factors that may affect the packs. Recently TP posted numbers from our packs on there thread so I thought if it's o.k. for them to post our numbers it would be o.k. for me to post our numbers/results. It's pretty funny that they get lower numbers on our packs and I'm getting lower numbers than what they claim on there pack.
All packs were charged at 2C on a Hyperion Duo Balance charger. Packs discharged on a T35GFX/Lipo at 35 amps. Voltage sensing leads attached on the 12 gauge wires were the female Deans is soldered. All packs were cyled once as they were cool when delivered by UPS. Packs were then cycled an hour after the 1st cycle. Pack and room temp was 72 degrees. The numbers were taken down after the second cycle.
TP40C: 514 - 7.40 -6.5
SMC40C: #1 505 - 7.43 - 5.7
#2 507 - 7.45 - 5.1
#3 512 - 7.45 - 5.5
#4 510 - 7.44 - 5.5
In a few days I will have info on the newest improvement if it's possible. If not we release new packs based on the packs above.
In the last few months there has been a breakthrough with one of the chemicals used in making Lipos. This means higher C rates are now possible. This material has been around for 6 months or so but wasn't stable. Just recently it has become stable.
Our 28C packs have been leading the way for the past 10 month and we could of released improvements earlier but we didn't feel it was needed as no others had caught up to our packs. With this new material we feel it's now the time to release our next generation of racing Lipos as we have seen some of our competitors have caught up and even passed our 10 month old 28C packs.
The reason why the new improved packs haven't been released yet is that our supplier is working on another potential improvement that would be beneficial to performance. This improvement is currently being tested for reliability and stability. Testing should conclude in a few days which will allow us to make a final decision on the new packs we will release. It would of not made since to rush and release new packs only to have another improvement 1 month later.
Since TP has released there new 40C/5000 we decided to ask our supplier to send us some 40C packs for testing. In the past six months we have gotten some 33 and 35C samples and decided not to release them. For those who gave me some grief on the False Lipo advertising thread that I started saying we were bashing others because we didn't have access to higher C rate packs were wrong. If you read some of my posts I said that we weren't going to release 35C packs as when I did these posts I was well aware that 40C+ was possible and we could release such a pack. So to all the guys who doubted me please read this post and understand that we do have access to the latest and greatest and we have full confidence that we will remain the leader in high performance Lipos.
So we did receive 5 packs to test today. Four packs are from our supplier using the new chemical to build some 40C/2S2P packs. The other pack is a brand new TP40C/5000/2S2P pack.
Normally I wouldn't post numbers from our competitors due to differences in testing setup , temperature and other factors that may affect the packs. Recently TP posted numbers from our packs on there thread so I thought if it's o.k. for them to post our numbers it would be o.k. for me to post our numbers/results. It's pretty funny that they get lower numbers on our packs and I'm getting lower numbers than what they claim on there pack.
All packs were charged at 2C on a Hyperion Duo Balance charger. Packs discharged on a T35GFX/Lipo at 35 amps. Voltage sensing leads attached on the 12 gauge wires were the female Deans is soldered. All packs were cyled once as they were cool when delivered by UPS. Packs were then cycled an hour after the 1st cycle. Pack and room temp was 72 degrees. The numbers were taken down after the second cycle.
TP40C: 514 - 7.40 -6.5
SMC40C: #1 505 - 7.43 - 5.7
#2 507 - 7.45 - 5.1
#3 512 - 7.45 - 5.5
#4 510 - 7.44 - 5.5
In a few days I will have info on the newest improvement if it's possible. If not we release new packs based on the packs above.
12-10-2008, 02:56 PM
#1570
Same size pack overall as with your 28C cells?
12-10-2008, 03:24 PM
#1572
Awesome...again thanks Danny for getting out great products with real info to back it up not just a bunch of hype.
Last time I picked up "racing lipo's" from the 3 major compainies...big T and big O cycled them out and SMC was on the top just like the sub c stuff.
I wait another month or so to do it again once every gets their super C packs out and post the results.
Cheers
Jamie
Last time I picked up "racing lipo's" from the 3 major compainies...big T and big O cycled them out and SMC was on the top just like the sub c stuff.
I wait another month or so to do it again once every gets their super C packs out and post the results.
Cheers
Jamie
12-10-2008, 03:40 PM
#1573
Thanks for the kind words. I should have info on what we will release exactly in 2 days. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the newest improvement our supplier is working on will be possible. Regardless of what packs we decide to release they will be available before or at the Snowbirds.
12-10-2008, 04:14 PM
#1574
Danny...sounds interesting for sure. I'm still loving my top wire 28C packs and recently got a saddle pack from you as well and it's been top notch. Thanks for continuing to research and improve your stellar product line!
Will the newer packs continue the top wire exit design?
Will the newer packs continue the top wire exit design?
12-10-2008, 07:04 PM
#1575
Thanks and glad to hear our packs are doing well for you. I think the newer generation packs will be an improvement but I don't think it will relate to a big difference on the track as cars simply don't pull enough amps to take full advantage of the higher C rate.
Yes the new packs will have the same top exiting wires.
We will release 3 new packs. The exact specs are to be determined but here is some info.
One will be a around a 5000 with 40C or better in a slightly longer case but still within the ROAR max casing size rule.
They other one will be a 3200 in capacity with 40C or better in the current 3200/28C case.
The last one will be a pack with a new case design for the European market as they have a different case size as ROAR. This pack should be around 4400 with 40C or better and will be our first case with inboard 4mm connectors. Were thinking of calling this the John St.Amant series as he seems to like inboard connector packs. LOL
Yes the new packs will have the same top exiting wires.
We will release 3 new packs. The exact specs are to be determined but here is some info.
One will be a around a 5000 with 40C or better in a slightly longer case but still within the ROAR max casing size rule.
They other one will be a 3200 in capacity with 40C or better in the current 3200/28C case.
The last one will be a pack with a new case design for the European market as they have a different case size as ROAR. This pack should be around 4400 with 40C or better and will be our first case with inboard 4mm connectors. Were thinking of calling this the John St.Amant series as he seems to like inboard connector packs. LOL