ROAR B/L motor Rules debate thread
01-12-2008, 03:00 PM
#842
If this motor thing ever gets settled, I hope to start fresh next year. If rubber tire is thin tomorrow, I'm fine just test 'n tuning all day. The track should be in decent shape, all I'm looking for is laps. I have a few things to work on.
01-12-2008, 08:44 PM
#843
I thought I would add that I was talking to Ernie at Trinity about something like this a year or two ago. If Trinity (or whoever) was allowed to research and develop a 27turn brushed stock motor with a $130 retail (like BL), we'd have substantially better stuff... Especially if they didn't have to conform to any rule and could literally start over with a clean slate. Kind of unfair, really to compare them at all, with BL motors triple the price. Hmmm.
If Trinity were allowed to?
Is there some mutant force keeping them from doing just that? Not that I know of anyway.
01-12-2008, 09:18 PM
#844
Roar has ruled that a 19turn motor that trinity released at one point was too fast and could not be used. If you want to go faster then run mod & stop complaining.
01-12-2008, 11:07 PM
#847
Ok, I am going to give a complete run down on what I believe should be changed.
1050 gram or less weight limit-a 2100lipo & a 380 or 540 sized motor will generate 400watts w/out much of a hastle & shave 400+ grams off the cars weight.
two classes(stock & mod)-You can simply check brushed or bl handout motor & you can pick up good 380 sized motors for less then stock motors.
Here is why I would make these changes.
1-more affordable then the current enviroment.
2-2/3rds the weight will result in 2/3rds the stress on parts during crashes.
3-shaft drive cars will not be affected nearly as much by torque roll due to less rotating mass thus benefitting parking lot racers who would rather not have to worry about cleaning belts.
4-in the end the average drivers concerns are performance, durabillity, & cost. These changes would greatly improve all 3 aspects. Just imagine being able to pick up a $75esc, $35 380 motor, $30 lipo, and a $50 charger. Then outrunning a guy w/ a gtb 3.5 on the back straight.
1050 gram or less weight limit-a 2100lipo & a 380 or 540 sized motor will generate 400watts w/out much of a hastle & shave 400+ grams off the cars weight.
two classes(stock & mod)-You can simply check brushed or bl handout motor & you can pick up good 380 sized motors for less then stock motors.
Here is why I would make these changes.
1-more affordable then the current enviroment.
2-2/3rds the weight will result in 2/3rds the stress on parts during crashes.
3-shaft drive cars will not be affected nearly as much by torque roll due to less rotating mass thus benefitting parking lot racers who would rather not have to worry about cleaning belts.
4-in the end the average drivers concerns are performance, durabillity, & cost. These changes would greatly improve all 3 aspects. Just imagine being able to pick up a $75esc, $35 380 motor, $30 lipo, and a $50 charger. Then outrunning a guy w/ a gtb 3.5 on the back straight.
01-12-2008, 11:12 PM
#848
The point I was trying to get across was that it would be pretty risky to make a motor, an average power motor, nothing insane, that wasn't legal for anything and invest the money to do it. Hi, this motor is the same speed or slower than the one you have, but is very efficient, lasts an extra long time between re-builds, 5-10 times less than the average brushed motor, and you'll get more time out of your batterys. Oh yea, once again, it's not legal for anything.
Although that didn't stop brushless...
Maybe he shoulda done it. I'm 50/50 on the thing.
Although that didn't stop brushless...
Maybe he shoulda done it. I'm 50/50 on the thing.
01-13-2008, 12:59 AM
#849
bl//lipo units had been being used for a good 7-10 years in r/c flyers. Do you honestly think that motor & battery manufacturers want you to get a product that will last for 2 years b4 you need a new one? You will also notice that its the esc manufacturers, not the motor & battery manufacturers that are leading this li//bl charge. If there was a true advantage to using a higher quality brushed motor product then we would have seen it in other products. Not to mention you really can't outperform bl motors. They are practicly as perfect as motors will get.
01-13-2008, 07:09 AM
#850
The ponit is Flying RC planes is generally done purely for liesure and fun, AMA encompasses a broader range of enthusiest than just competitors. As Region 1 director how much of your ROAR duties involve the bashers just having fun.
It is easy to get a 200-400 RTF kit get it up in the air and be content with it for much longer than a 400 RTR T/C used at your local race track.
I for one am an avid racer, with a full garage of cars running twice a week and ussually 2 class each day, I enjoy tuning brushed motors and I match my own batteries, and I've been doing it since 1985 with a short break in mid to late '90s. So this is merely an observation of how I think it is percieved from the outside looking in and not my personal veiwpoint.
It is easy to get a 200-400 RTF kit get it up in the air and be content with it for much longer than a 400 RTR T/C used at your local race track.
I for one am an avid racer, with a full garage of cars running twice a week and ussually 2 class each day, I enjoy tuning brushed motors and I match my own batteries, and I've been doing it since 1985 with a short break in mid to late '90s. So this is merely an observation of how I think it is percieved from the outside looking in and not my personal veiwpoint.
Funny you bring up my involvement with bashers. There is a small group of people that have been meeting in a parking lot for some time that I have been involved with to get them organized as a club and start what we would call racing.
And every so often I am contacted by someone who was just bashing and is looking to step up to racing.
ROAR needs to embrace the bashers, because this is where the next group of racers is going to come from. It is widely accepted that 27 turn, the slowest class we have, is far too difficult for the average first time racer. Most will give up long before they even get the skills to just get around the track (and don't get me started on track design).
At most flying fields there are many who will gladly teach you the basic skills necessary to fly, and from there you can decide how far you want to go. In cars you're thrown into the deep end of the pool with all the sharks and you're expected to survive.
The introduction of a brushless low level class will open the door for more bashers to become racers. By eliminating motor tuning you allow racers to concentrate on their driving skills and not worry what the brush of the week is.
01-13-2008, 08:07 AM
#851
RIP Brushed motors 
01-13-2008, 01:05 PM
#855
Whats the topic again?
The topic i think is ROAR B/L motor rules... There are 3 distint rules:
-mod (already taken care of, mod is mod run what u got)
-19T the next generation(b/l at XX.5 turns)
-27T the next generation(b/l at XX.5 turns)
The issues are what should the rules be.(specs,cost,turns,wieght size ect ect) Right now we have 19T and 27T motor rules that are great in my opinion, track size is not up for debate,cost of chassis,tires batteries or bodies is not the topic either.. What will be the rules for BL motors that are meant to replace or at least allow a transition from brushed to brushless with out loosing racers. We need a set of rules that will allow the 2 motors to run side by side like they did in motorcross with the move from 2stroke to 4 stroke when they raced side by side....(with different displacements)
For me we run 27T at my club, we want to continue with the ROAR rules in terms of stock racing. We want to see a ROAR stock BL motor rule that we can adopt that will illiminate the issues we have now with BL. No standards no one agrees on what is stock or near equivilant to 27T. We understand some will stay with brushed for some time so we also want to make sure our next generation stock motor class uses BL motors with similar performance to the current 27T classes. I dont think we need to rehash how none of the 27T are equal and that there are various levels of performance yadayada..
Im i way off here? Are we not looking for ROAR rules the will guide us into the next 10-20 years of racing just as they have for 27T racing and the not so new or old 19T class racing?? Im really confused how we get so side tracked about cost of racing and tv coverage. Those are separate issues.
The topic i think is ROAR B/L motor rules... There are 3 distint rules:
-mod (already taken care of, mod is mod run what u got)
-19T the next generation(b/l at XX.5 turns)
-27T the next generation(b/l at XX.5 turns)
The issues are what should the rules be.(specs,cost,turns,wieght size ect ect) Right now we have 19T and 27T motor rules that are great in my opinion, track size is not up for debate,cost of chassis,tires batteries or bodies is not the topic either.. What will be the rules for BL motors that are meant to replace or at least allow a transition from brushed to brushless with out loosing racers. We need a set of rules that will allow the 2 motors to run side by side like they did in motorcross with the move from 2stroke to 4 stroke when they raced side by side....(with different displacements)
For me we run 27T at my club, we want to continue with the ROAR rules in terms of stock racing. We want to see a ROAR stock BL motor rule that we can adopt that will illiminate the issues we have now with BL. No standards no one agrees on what is stock or near equivilant to 27T. We understand some will stay with brushed for some time so we also want to make sure our next generation stock motor class uses BL motors with similar performance to the current 27T classes. I dont think we need to rehash how none of the 27T are equal and that there are various levels of performance yadayada..
Im i way off here? Are we not looking for ROAR rules the will guide us into the next 10-20 years of racing just as they have for 27T racing and the not so new or old 19T class racing?? Im really confused how we get so side tracked about cost of racing and tv coverage. Those are separate issues.
