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Old 01-07-2008, 09:22 PM   #541
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Dawn, I like what I'm hearing so far from your updates. Will ROAR be giving any considertion to increasing race length in...let's say what is currently stock and 19 turn classes for on-road?

We've been running 6 minutes here quite awhile now in both of those classes with 4200's and brushed motors with no problems.....not even close. Isn't it about time we start to move away from 5 minutes? There's a lot of capacity that's not being used in the current cells for these two classes. Six minutes has been great for us here.
I would love to say yes.. but the last time the rules added time to qualifiers from four minutes to five minutes, it was a membership vote.... I distinctly remember voting on that and I voted no.. LOL

We are working on getting our online balloting completed very soon. Problem is the database and protecting your ROAR membership information. As soon as that is completed, we will more than likely open up membership advisory votes on big changes like increasing race lengths.

And.. just to say, interesting opinions here.. but you must remember, ROAR is about the average racer at the average race... we set the rules for nationals as those are our pinnacle events and we want the rest of racing to be modeled after.. but you are encouraged in your local racing clubs to have racing work for you! If 17.5 isn't stock in your area then fine.. but at the national level to ensure fairness to all, this is the direction we will PROBABLY go.. I am not sure this is our direction, I'm just trying to keep you all updated.
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:24 PM   #542
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nothing will stop you from doing this, Alex.... nothing at all....

17.5 is the safest and most conservative motor for a stock equivalence and at your home track the norm is 13.5 for club racing and will be for the Cactus.... despite my wishes, my better half wants that...

ROAR rules are made for consistency in racing at the nationals level to set a precedence and club racing is encouraged to do their own local tweaking....

and, I'll remember that when I tech your stuff at the Cactus... LOL
How about using the 17.5 for onroad stock and the 13.5 for offroad stock?

The current onroad 13.5's would have a demand in offroad, easy to sell them and might just make them all happy.
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:28 PM   #543
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How about using the 17.5 for onroad stock and the 13.5 for offroad stock?

The current onroad 13.5's would have a demand in offroad, easy to sell them and might just make them all happy.
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:48 PM   #544
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I would love to say yes.. but the last time the rules added time to qualifiers from four minutes to five minutes, it was a membership vote.... I distinctly remember voting on that and I voted no.. LOL

We are working on getting our online balloting completed very soon. Problem is the database and protecting your ROAR membership information. As soon as that is completed, we will more than likely open up membership advisory votes on big changes like increasing race lengths.

And.. just to say, interesting opinions here.. but you must remember, ROAR is about the average racer at the average race... we set the rules for nationals as those are our pinnacle events and we want the rest of racing to be modeled after.. but you are encouraged in your local racing clubs to have racing work for you! If 17.5 isn't stock in your area then fine.. but at the national level to ensure fairness to all, this is the direction we will PROBABLY go.. I am not sure this is our direction, I'm just trying to keep you all updated.

Nana na Booboo, I told you guys. Good to hear Dawn.
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:54 PM   #545
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I would love to say yes.. but the last time the rules added time to qualifiers from four minutes to five minutes, it was a membership vote.... I distinctly remember voting on that and I voted no.. LOL

We are working on getting our online balloting completed very soon. Problem is the database and protecting your ROAR membership information. As soon as that is completed, we will more than likely open up membership advisory votes on big changes like increasing race lengths.

And.. just to say, interesting opinions here.. but you must remember, ROAR is about the average racer at the average race... we set the rules for nationals as those are our pinnacle events and we want the rest of racing to be modeled after.. but you are encouraged in your local racing clubs to have racing work for you! If 17.5 isn't stock in your area then fine.. but at the national level to ensure fairness to all, this is the direction we will PROBABLY go.. I am not sure this is our direction, I'm just trying to keep you all updated.
Dawn, will you be at Snowbirds or the IIC race?

Also, I gotta say, you're going to change the face of racing classes, which is turning out to be pretty contraversial, with a vote between 8 people. Yet you want to put something that will surely get passed (6 min heats) to a vote for the ROAR members. Crucify me if you will, but it seems a little backwards to me.

I mean c'mon, who doesn't want to race an extra 4 minutes every raceday... Even people that want to get home at a decent time won't be effected much and it'll be slightly less depressing to see how much runtime we have left on our packs after a run.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:15 PM   #546
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Somewhat related to your points... Trackside ran out of 17.5 motors during the Novak race, I believe they ordered all that they could get. However, I'm not positive that was the case.
I race Novak exclusively, so I'm not Novak-Bashing. However, if what you say is true, and the Headlining Sponsor can't supply their premier race with motors, how so will it be at a non-sponsored race and product is not available.

My LHS's have reported that the Novak 13.5 is back-ordered from their distribution channels until Jan 22 or beyond.

It would be nice to know if the new rules due out soon will impact The Nats at The Plex.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:16 PM   #547
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I'm good with 5 mins actually I just got where I can go 5 mins without making a major mistake... I don't want to dodge boards for another min
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:17 PM   #548
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Because new rules to introduce a new technology into the hobby are bigger than us the racers. There has to be long term vision and manufacturer buy-in, along with the technical tidbits necessary to complete the rules package. Sometimes we need to be saved from ourselves by those that can see the whole picture.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:35 PM   #549
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....There has to be long term vision and manufacturer buy-in, along with the technical tidbits necessary to complete the rules package. Sometimes we need to be saved from ourselves by those that can see the whole picture....
Is this the same "long term vision" that sold me 2 different 13.5 motors that they said was the 27T equivalent?? They must be terribly disappointed I'll have to buy 1-2 more. Not whining...just pointing out to place all your marbles into one basket when the corporate $$ is behind the decisions....is not always the best advise either.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:36 PM   #550
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Because new rules to introduce a new technology into the hobby are bigger than us the racers. There has to be long term vision and manufacturer buy-in, along with the technical tidbits necessary to complete the rules package. Sometimes we need to be saved from ourselves by those that can see the whole picture.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that there should be a membership vote for the battery, motor, and class changes. Just seems like the roar officials should go ahead and put the race length to a vote when they meet if it's something they were already considering. I mean, most of the race lengths were previously established by what battery packs could handle in the late 80's or so. Back then in 1/12th scale you'd gear so you would start dumping on the last lap of the race. With the race lengths as they are now people are gearing as high as their motors can handle and still have gobs of time left in their packs.

However, you can't test the limits since. I pointed out earlier that lengthening races by much more than a minute or two would make it really rough on people that are racing locally on a weeknight. That is assuming local tracks would follow suit to ROARs new race lengths should they change.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:52 PM   #551
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You know what's really amazed me, this hasn't become the typical "bash" everybody thread and "this" idea is best. Just good conversation.

Good job everybody.

I think it when it comes down to it, somebody else just mentioned it. Seems like the slower classes, or stuff based around stock is the largest "gripe" area.

As somebody else mentioned, simply add whatever is believed to be the best for the new guys in a BL package, and run it along side stock and see where the interest lies. After a year, it would be pretty obvious what would be the best for the racer.

Say what you want about this technology or that technology or whatever it is believed will save a racer a buck. Racers enter classes they like, and that's really the bottom line.

Example. The successful WCICS series in Canada. Those guys had some great classes, they dropped 1/10th pan this last season and added a different class, and it was the smart move. And they dropped 1/10th pan after watching the numbers dwindle, and added the exact class people were asking for. TA'DAHHH! Happy racers, good racer count at events.

Stock is the area of most concern. Address it with what is believed to be the equivalent in BL, add it along side the current stock class and let's move on. In a year, see who's racing what, and dump the least popular class.

Done deal. See, that was easy.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:58 PM   #552
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Hey Dawn , they ask for gizmo`s , class`s, fuse`s, ect......

just



Seal The Can......
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:30 PM   #553
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I have a question. What is the point in Roar telling the club level tracks to experiment with newer technology, inviting them to create new classes basically becoming lab rats, if when Roar decides to take action with the tech, they sell the local clubs out? No, I am not flaming, just asking a question, because to me that is the way it seems. The 13.5 met resistance at first, but now across the US it has been almost accepted on a majority level. Either to be ran with brushed 27t motors or in place of them as stock. Honestly, I feel like a guinea pig, I have been running the 13.5 at the club level for a year now only to get slapped in the face and told; look you [email protected]$$ you have been running the wrong motor, and at that I am being told that by the very people who said to experiment because they couldn't step up to begin with.

Maybe I am out in left field, maybe I am just cursed with an individually biased opinion in the matter, but I can't believe I am the only person with it. Of course that could be ego, or maybe that is what this post is, I am shouting out to say; hey, I feel like I have been used. You can call me conceited, self centered, selfish even a fool. I don't care, I don't know you, but even if I did I would probably look you in the face and say; yeah, you're right.

My opinion, well it isn't humble, but nonetheless; at regional and national levels the classes should be:
13.5
10.5/19t
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You are worried about the new people, well make a class for them. Have them run the 17.5 and 27t motors. I learned on a 27t motor, why can't every other new person do the same? There is no need to have a class at the regional and national level to represent what the new people are driving, these events should be prestigious, you should have to be one of the top racers in your area to even think of attending.

Sorry Bob, you should have knocked on wood.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:21 AM   #554
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I have a question. What is the point in Roar telling the club level tracks to experiment with newer technology, inviting them to create new classes basically becoming lab rats, if when Roar decides to take action with the tech, they sell the local clubs out? No, I am not flaming, just asking a question, because to me that is the way it seems. The 13.5 met resistance at first, but now across the US it has been almost accepted on a majority level. Either to be ran with brushed 27t motors or in place of them as stock. Honestly, I feel like a guinea pig, I have been running the 13.5 at the club level for a year now only to get slapped in the face and told; look you [email protected]$$ you have been running the wrong motor, and at that I am being told that by the very people who said to experiment because they couldn't step up to begin with.

Maybe I am out in left field, maybe I am just cursed with an individually biased opinion in the matter, but I can't believe I am the only person with it. Of course that could be ego, or maybe that is what this post is, I am shouting out to say; hey, I feel like I have been used. You can call me conceited, self centered, selfish even a fool. I don't care, I don't know you, but even if I did I would probably look you in the face and say; yeah, you're right.

My opinion, well it isn't humble, but nonetheless; at regional and national levels the classes should be:
13.5
10.5/19t
Mod

You are worried about the new people, well make a class for them. Have them run the 17.5 and 27t motors. I learned on a 27t motor, why can't every other new person do the same? There is no need to have a class at the regional and national level to represent what the new people are driving, these events should be prestigious, you should have to be one of the top racers in your area to even think of attending.

Sorry Bob, you should have knocked on wood.
Let me qualify this by saying that I don't even own a 13.5. However, I totally see where you're coming from. 13.5 has been pretty widely accepted as the new stock throughout the country in part probably because people got tired of waiting for ROAR to do something. Now ROAR wants to blur that wide acceptance by possibly not even having a 13.5 class in their race programs. For the intermediate level racer, which I think most of us qualify as, the 13.5 seems like a pretty good fit. No, it's not great for beginners and something does need to be done to slow things down for them. However, why should the people that are currently supporting this hobby be frustrated in order to make things better for people that aren't even in the hobby yet.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:32 AM   #555
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Let me qualify this by saying that I don't even own a 13.5. However, I totally see where you're coming from. 13.5 has been pretty widely accepted as the new stock throughout the country in part probably because people got tired of waiting for ROAR to do something. Now ROAR wants to blur that wide acceptance by possibly not even having a 13.5 class in their race programs. For the intermediate level racer, which I think most of us qualify as, the 13.5 seems like a pretty good fit. No, it's not great for beginners and something does need to be done to slow things down for them. However, why should the people that are currently supporting this hobby be frustrated in order to make things better for people that aren't even in the hobby yet.
Your jumping the gun there Ike, ROAR hasn't decided anything yet.
We are fortunate to have the new pres of ROAR actually on here asking for our opinions and not just the opinions of the manufacturers.
What a great step forward for ROAR.

So don't start wailing on them yet, give them a chance to come to a decision and then if you don't agree, then go for it.
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