Around The Table With Paul Lemieux(RC-America/Thunderpower)
05-02-2008, 06:17 AM
#661
rccartips: I am a big fan of front swaybars lately, I hate cars that are twitchy to drive and with a front sway bar i can always run a softer front spring because of the reduced roll that a sway bar gives, and a softer front spring is always smoother to drive for me.
I run a rear bar when i want the car to squat more evenly on power, i think that when you Punch it and the weight transfers back in the car a rear bar will load both tires a little more equally, there for a little less diffing or one tire unloading as much. With a nitro car this can be different, I think because of the clutch hitting so hard. ( dont know why for sure ).
The simple rule of thumb is that Bars reduce side to side roll but not front to back roll.
Thanks paul
I run a rear bar when i want the car to squat more evenly on power, i think that when you Punch it and the weight transfers back in the car a rear bar will load both tires a little more equally, there for a little less diffing or one tire unloading as much. With a nitro car this can be different, I think because of the clutch hitting so hard. ( dont know why for sure ).
The simple rule of thumb is that Bars reduce side to side roll but not front to back roll.
Thanks paul
05-05-2008, 08:34 AM
#662
weight
hi Paul,
just another question... what is a good weight balance? is it 375 grams on each tire to total 1500gms? or is rear slightly heavier?
on side to side roll, when is more roll better or worse? if track has pretty good grip, should i go for more or less roll?
thanks again
joel
just another question... what is a good weight balance? is it 375 grams on each tire to total 1500gms? or is rear slightly heavier?
on side to side roll, when is more roll better or worse? if track has pretty good grip, should i go for more or less roll?
thanks again
joel
05-05-2008, 08:57 AM
#663
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
paul, after my debocale at nat's i picked up an 008 rubber tire car. that kit comes with the black springs. is there a chart or table that shows how the black springs fit in to the traditional lbs. rating of the rest of the xray springs?
also, i have noticed that many of the setup sheets show a front droop setting up to 6. when i try to put that setting in my car, it limits the ride height to 3 mm. with rubber tires. the inner arm positions are set the same way the sheet shows. am i missing something?
thanks, Mario Ficco
also, i have noticed that many of the setup sheets show a front droop setting up to 6. when i try to put that setting in my car, it limits the ride height to 3 mm. with rubber tires. the inner arm positions are set the same way the sheet shows. am i missing something?
thanks, Mario Ficco
05-05-2008, 09:02 AM
#664
paul, after my debocale at nat's i picked up an 008 rubber tire car. that kit comes with the black springs. is there a chart or table that shows how the black springs fit in to the traditional lbs. rating of the rest of the xray springs?
also, i have noticed that many of the setup sheets show a front droop setting up to 6. when i try to put that setting in my car, it limits the ride height to 3 mm. with rubber tires. the inner arm positions are set the same way the sheet shows. am i missing something?
thanks, Mario Ficco
also, i have noticed that many of the setup sheets show a front droop setting up to 6. when i try to put that setting in my car, it limits the ride height to 3 mm. with rubber tires. the inner arm positions are set the same way the sheet shows. am i missing something?
thanks, Mario Ficco
05-05-2008, 09:04 AM
#665
Not to steal Paul's thunder but on the droop issue make sure you're measuring 6 to the bottom of the arm underneath the hinge pin... if you're measuring to the c-hub grub screw boss you will get much different droop measurements
paul, after my debocale at nat's i picked up an 008 rubber tire car. that kit comes with the black springs. is there a chart or table that shows how the black springs fit in to the traditional lbs. rating of the rest of the xray springs?
also, i have noticed that many of the setup sheets show a front droop setting up to 6. when i try to put that setting in my car, it limits the ride height to 3 mm. with rubber tires. the inner arm positions are set the same way the sheet shows. am i missing something?
thanks, Mario Ficco
also, i have noticed that many of the setup sheets show a front droop setting up to 6. when i try to put that setting in my car, it limits the ride height to 3 mm. with rubber tires. the inner arm positions are set the same way the sheet shows. am i missing something?
thanks, Mario Ficco
05-05-2008, 09:06 AM
#666
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
rblove THANKS, BUT I WAS TALKING TO PAUL......
just kidding,
the chart is just what i was looking for. much appreciated
scuba, you too, stay out of my conversation.
yeah, i saw that in the book, and i am measuring to the arm, and not the c-hub set screw boss.
just kidding,
the chart is just what i was looking for. much appreciatedscuba, you too, stay out of my conversation.
yeah, i saw that in the book, and i am measuring to the arm, and not the c-hub set screw boss.
05-05-2008, 06:45 PM
#667
Paul
I took your advice, my car handled alot better and was running very quick. What rubber tires would you recommend? Im looking at buying muchmore 32 tires are these anygood? Thanks for your help.
I took your advice, my car handled alot better and was running very quick. What rubber tires would you recommend? Im looking at buying muchmore 32 tires are these anygood? Thanks for your help.
05-06-2008, 10:11 AM
#668
rccartips: lately i havent been balancing the car front to rear. i usually can feel when the car needs more front weight or rear weight. more front weight will normally be smoother or less twitchy then push a little more threw the center then have better steering coming out. so for me if the car is hard to drive i will put some weight up front. If i have lead on the car i will moove that foreward first or i will make the car longer from the rear.
As Traction comes up you will always get more side to side roll, i think that their is a sweet spot (not too much or not too little) I try not too tune roll with springs because a stiffer spring will make the car do weird things on very high bite (asphalt or carpet), but i will run a bigger bars and adjust roll centers and camber links to reduce the roll when grip is high. but normally stiffer springs is not the way to go atall.
Al dente: for rubber tires you do want to be running the new ones, i like them the best of all the springs. Im sure that you are missing something when setting your droop, i always set my droop around 2.5mm above ride hieght (for rubber tires), so if you have 5mms of ride height your tires would lift off of the ground when the chassis is 7.5mms off of the ground.
Thanks for the chart Rob.
FX racing: Sorry but i have never run those tires, tires are most of the game but i dont know about those.
Thanks Paul
As Traction comes up you will always get more side to side roll, i think that their is a sweet spot (not too much or not too little) I try not too tune roll with springs because a stiffer spring will make the car do weird things on very high bite (asphalt or carpet), but i will run a bigger bars and adjust roll centers and camber links to reduce the roll when grip is high. but normally stiffer springs is not the way to go atall.
Al dente: for rubber tires you do want to be running the new ones, i like them the best of all the springs. Im sure that you are missing something when setting your droop, i always set my droop around 2.5mm above ride hieght (for rubber tires), so if you have 5mms of ride height your tires would lift off of the ground when the chassis is 7.5mms off of the ground.
Thanks for the chart Rob.
FX racing: Sorry but i have never run those tires, tires are most of the game but i dont know about those.
Thanks Paul
05-06-2008, 10:13 AM
#669
I heard you laid it down in Cincy this past weekend. Nice job. Take it easy and I will see you in Arkansas.........
05-06-2008, 12:35 PM
#670
Xray T2's US vs EU 6 cell
Great Thread Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge...
When you are switching from Asphalt to Carpet or vice-versa, do you completely rebuild your car or do you have separate cars that you race for those setups. In a previous post you mentioned that you usually only have two cars. One that you race with and one that try different things with.
Also any comments you have about the differences between the US and EU 6 cells cars from your experienced perspective would be helpful to people new to Xray cars.
Thanks!
When you are switching from Asphalt to Carpet or vice-versa, do you completely rebuild your car or do you have separate cars that you race for those setups. In a previous post you mentioned that you usually only have two cars. One that you race with and one that try different things with.
Also any comments you have about the differences between the US and EU 6 cells cars from your experienced perspective would be helpful to people new to Xray cars.
Thanks!
05-06-2008, 01:45 PM
#671
Tech Apprentice
Hi paul,
Lately i have a lot of trouble to make my car handle good,i hava had this problem on different tracks and with my 007 and my 008. I drive rubber modified 5 cells. When i drove indoor with my 007 i had the problem that the car was good for the first 2 or 3 minutes and then the car started to oversteer very badly on power when coming out of slow corners.Its exacty the same feeling then when a diff is getting bad and needs a rebuild. only this time its also the same with a perfect fresh diff.I had this on different tracks and spend a lot of time testing a lot of things without results.Then i went over to a 008 and the 008 was indoor super consistent,i is a real pleasure to drive.
Now i started to drive outdoor with the 008 and i also have a problem with oversteering on power coming out of slow corners but from the moment i get some speed i get understeering on power. The car feels like it could use some more steering going in the corner en mid corner but every change i make to make it steer more in those areas makes the problem with on power oversteer even worse.
Today i tested with my 007 outdoor and wtih this car its almost the same,it can use a lot more steering midcorner but if try to give it some more steering in this area then it becomes undriveable because of the on-power oversteering.
Now i just read your post about front to rear wheight balance and it looks like i have too move some wheigt too the back.I have my 5 cells in front in my 007 and my 008 and my receiver is behind my cells.
Should i move the cells backwards? Other ideas what i can do about this?
Thanks
Lately i have a lot of trouble to make my car handle good,i hava had this problem on different tracks and with my 007 and my 008. I drive rubber modified 5 cells. When i drove indoor with my 007 i had the problem that the car was good for the first 2 or 3 minutes and then the car started to oversteer very badly on power when coming out of slow corners.Its exacty the same feeling then when a diff is getting bad and needs a rebuild. only this time its also the same with a perfect fresh diff.I had this on different tracks and spend a lot of time testing a lot of things without results.Then i went over to a 008 and the 008 was indoor super consistent,i is a real pleasure to drive.
Now i started to drive outdoor with the 008 and i also have a problem with oversteering on power coming out of slow corners but from the moment i get some speed i get understeering on power. The car feels like it could use some more steering going in the corner en mid corner but every change i make to make it steer more in those areas makes the problem with on power oversteer even worse.
Today i tested with my 007 outdoor and wtih this car its almost the same,it can use a lot more steering midcorner but if try to give it some more steering in this area then it becomes undriveable because of the on-power oversteering.
Now i just read your post about front to rear wheight balance and it looks like i have too move some wheigt too the back.I have my 5 cells in front in my 007 and my 008 and my receiver is behind my cells.
Should i move the cells backwards? Other ideas what i can do about this?
Thanks
05-07-2008, 09:13 AM
#673
RB: thanks man, see you their.
PH2: Hi. I always have a different car for outdoor, right now i have three cars, 1for foam carpet, 1for rubber carpet and 1for rubber asphalt and i also have a old car that i configure differently to do testing with.
The US kit is for foam carpet racing. The EU kit is for rubber tire asphalt or rubber tire carpet. as for 5cell or 6cell it is just weather you have 5cell rules or 6cell rules at your track, but each kit is specific to the tires and serface which you are running.
Sitting Duck: i Know what you are feeling and i have felt it before on low bite parking lot tracks, I dont know for sure but i think that this could be a charictoristic of a spool on these types of tracks, this sounds weird but maybe try a tight front diff instead of a spool or one way, i know that Matt Francis used to have a lot of luck with tight front diffs on asphalt. Have you tried this?, I may not be right atall but its worth a battery and if it sucks you can get on here and yell at me, then i can give you some small things to change to your current set up. let me know.
Diggs: hey man, your Off roading?
Thanks, Paul
PH2: Hi. I always have a different car for outdoor, right now i have three cars, 1for foam carpet, 1for rubber carpet and 1for rubber asphalt and i also have a old car that i configure differently to do testing with.
The US kit is for foam carpet racing. The EU kit is for rubber tire asphalt or rubber tire carpet. as for 5cell or 6cell it is just weather you have 5cell rules or 6cell rules at your track, but each kit is specific to the tires and serface which you are running.
Sitting Duck: i Know what you are feeling and i have felt it before on low bite parking lot tracks, I dont know for sure but i think that this could be a charictoristic of a spool on these types of tracks, this sounds weird but maybe try a tight front diff instead of a spool or one way, i know that Matt Francis used to have a lot of luck with tight front diffs on asphalt. Have you tried this?, I may not be right atall but its worth a battery and if it sucks you can get on here and yell at me, then i can give you some small things to change to your current set up. let me know.
Diggs: hey man, your Off roading?
Thanks, Paul
