ROAR Stock TC Guideline Suggestion
10-02-2007, 05:00 AM
#1
ROAR Stock TC Guideline Suggestion
The IIC-Live chat exploded with talk of a tub chassis JRXS-R and all the ramifications it would have when Hodge asked if there was interest in such a car. But it got me thinking .....
ROAR has a maximum selling price limit on Stock motors, which is a good idea in my opinion. What if we voted to have ROAR place a limit on CAR KIT price for Stock class? Essentially, this rule could say, "only tub type chassis in Stock TC classes, with a price cap of $XXX." I'm proposing the effect of this rule would reduce the cost of racing Stock TC slightly, but would also create a larger talent gap between Stock, 19T, and Mod. None of those guys would want to deal with a flexi-flyer chassis!
I realize this topic touches a number of sticky issues, but please try to keep responses clean. And yes, this has been suggested before, but not when so many manufacturers had tub chassis cars available on the market at one time.
ROAR has a maximum selling price limit on Stock motors, which is a good idea in my opinion. What if we voted to have ROAR place a limit on CAR KIT price for Stock class? Essentially, this rule could say, "only tub type chassis in Stock TC classes, with a price cap of $XXX." I'm proposing the effect of this rule would reduce the cost of racing Stock TC slightly, but would also create a larger talent gap between Stock, 19T, and Mod. None of those guys would want to deal with a flexi-flyer chassis!
I realize this topic touches a number of sticky issues, but please try to keep responses clean. And yes, this has been suggested before, but not when so many manufacturers had tub chassis cars available on the market at one time.
10-02-2007, 06:00 AM
#3
as I see it limiting the price for stock will only increase the cost when the racer wants to run 19t or mod. By creating such a rule the entry level driver will be forced to by a new chasis once they feel ready to move up, wouldn't just be easier (not to mention cheaper) a different motor rather tha a different chasis?
10-02-2007, 06:26 AM
#4
Bit of Devils advocate here....
Whats to stop someone producing a plastic tub chasssis to just come in under the price limit, and then having a huge range of ugradable options to make the car lighter and perform better... IMO would turn out more expenisve, as unfortuantly does most losely cost controlled classes.
If you want cost controlled, you have to go the whole hog, and state limits on everything, including upgrades motors etc as well... then you have the checking issue.
JMO
Regards
Ed
Whats to stop someone producing a plastic tub chasssis to just come in under the price limit, and then having a huge range of ugradable options to make the car lighter and perform better... IMO would turn out more expenisve, as unfortuantly does most losely cost controlled classes.
If you want cost controlled, you have to go the whole hog, and state limits on everything, including upgrades motors etc as well... then you have the checking issue.
JMO
Regards
Ed
10-02-2007, 06:49 AM
#5
"ROAR has a maximum selling price limit on Stock motors, which is a good idea in my opinion"
I agree but why create a whole chassis rule change like that? ITs hard enough getting guys into racing but to further make matters confusing we have to tell the guy he has to get tub chassis and not the prolevel car he really wants. Right now you get a PRO LEVEL TC and you can run in 4,5,6cell,stock,19T and MOD.
I think what we really need is for roar to sort out the next genertion of stock motors: THE BRUSHLESS STOCK MOTOR. With the same restrictions as current brushed stock motors, that would include a max selling price limit, as well as other technical restrictions.
I agree but why create a whole chassis rule change like that? ITs hard enough getting guys into racing but to further make matters confusing we have to tell the guy he has to get tub chassis and not the prolevel car he really wants. Right now you get a PRO LEVEL TC and you can run in 4,5,6cell,stock,19T and MOD.
I think what we really need is for roar to sort out the next genertion of stock motors: THE BRUSHLESS STOCK MOTOR. With the same restrictions as current brushed stock motors, that would include a max selling price limit, as well as other technical restrictions.
10-02-2007, 07:04 AM
#6
Just an idea, but couldnt you have each manufacturer submit a budget chassis e.g T2R for homologation. Then only those homologated cars are allowed to be raced as standard?
For example:
Xray T2R
Losi JRXS-R tub chassis
Hot Bodies Cyclone S
Then only allow set up changes, e.g springs, shock oil, camber, toe, gearing
Only allow differentials perhaps, no spools or one ways.
A proper stock or sport class could be created if someone could be bothered with the regulations and it could potentially be very cheap.
For example:
Xray T2R
Losi JRXS-R tub chassis
Hot Bodies Cyclone S
Then only allow set up changes, e.g springs, shock oil, camber, toe, gearing
Only allow differentials perhaps, no spools or one ways.
A proper stock or sport class could be created if someone could be bothered with the regulations and it could potentially be very cheap.
10-02-2007, 07:13 AM
#7
This will be a BIG FLAME, but here goes
The problem is not the chassis'. The problem with stock is the "same" ole guys keep winning and are not moving on. Modified may not be the answer, but 19 turn sure is a good alternative. Keep the factory modified guys out of 19 turn and let the fast stock guys move on. If modified is the answer their needs be an open modified class with a 10 turn motor limit and a Factory Modified class that is unlimited. These type of things will get the current fast stock guys to move on and make way for new "fast stock" guys.
If you win a ROAR stock event you should be forced out of stock. If you podium three times (2nd or 3rd) you should be forced out.
I also think brushless should be looked at a little harder. Much cheaper in the long run. Easy to tech with a meter. But, 13.5 is not the answer. We have proven it 100 times that a 13.5 is and can be faster than a stocker. I did some testing with a 17.5 and ran the same lap times as I did in stock. Brushless just takes a "BIG" gear and they can be faster. Brad Johnson just won stock at the IIC and I guarantee you he would have went a "lot" faster with a 13.5.
This post was a little off topic, but I truly believe it is something ROAR needs to consider for onroad stock racing......
The problem is not the chassis'. The problem with stock is the "same" ole guys keep winning and are not moving on. Modified may not be the answer, but 19 turn sure is a good alternative. Keep the factory modified guys out of 19 turn and let the fast stock guys move on. If modified is the answer their needs be an open modified class with a 10 turn motor limit and a Factory Modified class that is unlimited. These type of things will get the current fast stock guys to move on and make way for new "fast stock" guys.
If you win a ROAR stock event you should be forced out of stock. If you podium three times (2nd or 3rd) you should be forced out.
I also think brushless should be looked at a little harder. Much cheaper in the long run. Easy to tech with a meter. But, 13.5 is not the answer. We have proven it 100 times that a 13.5 is and can be faster than a stocker. I did some testing with a 17.5 and ran the same lap times as I did in stock. Brushless just takes a "BIG" gear and they can be faster. Brad Johnson just won stock at the IIC and I guarantee you he would have went a "lot" faster with a 13.5.
This post was a little off topic, but I truly believe it is something ROAR needs to consider for onroad stock racing......
10-02-2007, 07:16 AM
#8
Just an idea, but couldnt you have each manufacturer submit a budget chassis e.g T2R for homologation. Then only those homologated cars are allowed to be raced as standard?
For example:
Xray T2R
Losi JRXS-R tub chassis
Hot Bodies Cyclone S
Then only allow set up changes, e.g springs, shock oil, camber, toe, gearing
Only allow differentials perhaps, no spools or one ways.
A proper stock or sport class could be created if someone could be bothered with the regulations and it could potentially be very cheap.
For example:
Xray T2R
Losi JRXS-R tub chassis
Hot Bodies Cyclone S
Then only allow set up changes, e.g springs, shock oil, camber, toe, gearing
Only allow differentials perhaps, no spools or one ways.
A proper stock or sport class could be created if someone could be bothered with the regulations and it could potentially be very cheap.
10-02-2007, 07:34 AM
#9
This will be a BIG FLAME, but here goes
The problem is not the chassis'. The problem with stock is the "same" ole guys keep winning and are not moving on. Modified may not be the answer, but 19 turn sure is a good alternative. Keep the factory modified guys out of 19 turn and let the fast stock guys move on. If modified is the answer their needs be an open modified class with a 10 turn motor limit and a Factory Modified class that is unlimited. These type of things will get the current fast stock guys to move on and make way for new "fast stock" guys.
If you win a ROAR stock event you should be forced out of stock. If you podium three times (2nd or 3rd) you should be forced out.
I also think brushless should be looked at a little harder. Much cheaper in the long run. Easy to tech with a meter. But, 13.5 is not the answer. We have proven it 100 times that a 13.5 is and can be faster than a stocker. I did some testing with a 17.5 and ran the same lap times as I did in stock. Brushless just takes a "BIG" gear and they can be faster. Brad Johnson just won stock at the IIC and I guarantee you he would have went a "lot" faster with a 13.5.
This post was a little off topic, but I truly believe it is something ROAR needs to consider for onroad stock racing......
The problem is not the chassis'. The problem with stock is the "same" ole guys keep winning and are not moving on. Modified may not be the answer, but 19 turn sure is a good alternative. Keep the factory modified guys out of 19 turn and let the fast stock guys move on. If modified is the answer their needs be an open modified class with a 10 turn motor limit and a Factory Modified class that is unlimited. These type of things will get the current fast stock guys to move on and make way for new "fast stock" guys.
If you win a ROAR stock event you should be forced out of stock. If you podium three times (2nd or 3rd) you should be forced out.
I also think brushless should be looked at a little harder. Much cheaper in the long run. Easy to tech with a meter. But, 13.5 is not the answer. We have proven it 100 times that a 13.5 is and can be faster than a stocker. I did some testing with a 17.5 and ran the same lap times as I did in stock. Brushless just takes a "BIG" gear and they can be faster. Brad Johnson just won stock at the IIC and I guarantee you he would have went a "lot" faster with a 13.5.
This post was a little off topic, but I truly believe it is something ROAR needs to consider for onroad stock racing......
10-02-2007, 07:37 AM
#10
I like the idea. They have the same format for a lot of other motorsports. Maybe do it like the Stock Offroad Nats were set up. I would love to see some sort of ladder system were you work your way up to the top (Modified). I also wish there was a way you had to qualify for a National, and make the Regionals more prestigious.
10-02-2007, 07:38 AM
#11
The "problem" with Stk. is not so much the motors or baterries or even chassis! Its the RACERS!
We live in a time where everyone thinks that they should have what THEY WANT and have it right now.
We live in a time where everyone thinks that they should have what THEY WANT and have it right now.
10-02-2007, 08:01 AM
#12
well lets just say such a rule came into affect
all of the mid pack stock racers (that would be me) who alreday spent 400+ on a chassis (like a cyclone, tc5, mI3, typ r ECt) and parts would have 2 shell out more cash for a new chassis just to keep running stock
alot of stock racers love racing stock and would never dream of moving up
I also agree that we should have a ladder type system to keem the winning faces changing and help some new people move up the ladder and get noticed
all of the mid pack stock racers (that would be me) who alreday spent 400+ on a chassis (like a cyclone, tc5, mI3, typ r ECt) and parts would have 2 shell out more cash for a new chassis just to keep running stock
alot of stock racers love racing stock and would never dream of moving up
I also agree that we should have a ladder type system to keem the winning faces changing and help some new people move up the ladder and get noticed
10-02-2007, 08:02 AM
#13
I hear ya, and agree fully, no Flame. Guys need to step up. Our racing has evolved over the years, and it is time for some kind of a bump up.
This will be a BIG FLAME, but here goes
The problem is not the chassis'. The problem with stock is the "same" ole guys keep winning and are not moving on. Modified may not be the answer, but 19 turn sure is a good alternative. Keep the factory modified guys out of 19 turn and let the fast stock guys move on. If modified is the answer their needs be an open modified class with a 10 turn motor limit and a Factory Modified class that is unlimited. These type of things will get the current fast stock guys to move on and make way for new "fast stock" guys.
If you win a ROAR stock event you should be forced out of stock. If you podium three times (2nd or 3rd) you should be forced out.
I also think brushless should be looked at a little harder. Much cheaper in the long run. Easy to tech with a meter. But, 13.5 is not the answer. We have proven it 100 times that a 13.5 is and can be faster than a stocker. I did some testing with a 17.5 and ran the same lap times as I did in stock. Brushless just takes a "BIG" gear and they can be faster. Brad Johnson just won stock at the IIC and I guarantee you he would have went a "lot" faster with a 13.5.
This post was a little off topic, but I truly believe it is something ROAR needs to consider for onroad stock racing......
The problem is not the chassis'. The problem with stock is the "same" ole guys keep winning and are not moving on. Modified may not be the answer, but 19 turn sure is a good alternative. Keep the factory modified guys out of 19 turn and let the fast stock guys move on. If modified is the answer their needs be an open modified class with a 10 turn motor limit and a Factory Modified class that is unlimited. These type of things will get the current fast stock guys to move on and make way for new "fast stock" guys.
If you win a ROAR stock event you should be forced out of stock. If you podium three times (2nd or 3rd) you should be forced out.
I also think brushless should be looked at a little harder. Much cheaper in the long run. Easy to tech with a meter. But, 13.5 is not the answer. We have proven it 100 times that a 13.5 is and can be faster than a stocker. I did some testing with a 17.5 and ran the same lap times as I did in stock. Brushless just takes a "BIG" gear and they can be faster. Brad Johnson just won stock at the IIC and I guarantee you he would have went a "lot" faster with a 13.5.
This post was a little off topic, but I truly believe it is something ROAR needs to consider for onroad stock racing......
10-02-2007, 08:07 AM
#14
Just an idea, but couldnt you have each manufacturer submit a budget chassis e.g T2R for homologation. Then only those homologated cars are allowed to be raced as standard?
For example:
Xray T2R
Losi JRXS-R tub chassis
Hot Bodies Cyclone S
Then only allow set up changes, e.g springs, shock oil, camber, toe, gearing
Only allow differentials perhaps, no spools or one ways.
A proper stock or sport class could be created if someone could be bothered with the regulations and it could potentially be very cheap.
For example:
Xray T2R
Losi JRXS-R tub chassis
Hot Bodies Cyclone S
Then only allow set up changes, e.g springs, shock oil, camber, toe, gearing
Only allow differentials perhaps, no spools or one ways.
A proper stock or sport class could be created if someone could be bothered with the regulations and it could potentially be very cheap.
On the topic of rules, something like, "Kit cost limit of $XXX, and only replacement parts may be used, no performance enhancing chassis." Keep in mind, this is sounding more and more like TCS with every post. However, the cars we're talking about here are very similar to the cars we race every weekend and would follow suit with current ROAR/Big Race guidelines with regards to motor selection, battery types, tires, etc.
10-02-2007, 08:11 AM
#15
I disagree, sorry. I know its hard racing aginst wallets, but if you have any skill, you can get a pro2 around the track just fine in club level competiton. Ive tried pounding this in peolpe heads about esc's (Sphere for example) People will run a 13.5 and insist that it is nessecery to have a TC Spec 2007 and nothing else. Because its the latest and greatest You dont need the best, until you are in the top mains of a national level competition, were any edge could mater. Lets face it, only about 15 percent of the people here on the boards can and will take advantage of the latest greatest, because they are the best( Baker, Dumas, ect you know what I mean) If you put a price limit on the chassis, then tires, bodies, esc, servo's, and body clips would have to fall in the same thing. (I know thers a price limit through ROAR on stocks, but Ive seen CO27's go from $22.95-$45 @ the lhs, all Trinity, no tuner motors)