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Old 05-15-2003, 09:32 PM   #1
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Default Jack The Gripper vs. Paragon!!

Okay-this thread isnt really about Paragon vs. jack the Gripper, but it is about trying to do something good and right and healthy for foam/carpet racing!!!

I am part owner of a very popular and well attended carpet track in Cleveland, Ohio. Last fall we had 60 to 100 entries for a month of Sundays leading up to the US Indoor Champs and a week straight of practice. To say the building reaked of Paragon would be an understatement. It was hitting a wall of Paragon as you walked in the front door.

Since then I and many other local racers have switched to the odorless and non-death toxic traction cmpound called Jack the Gripper. We think its as good or better in performance and all of us feel better too. also no negative afcts on the track or tires like the gooey TQ product line.


What I want to know is-should pressure be put on race organizers to try and ban PAragon or any other wintergreen based traction compound? Oil of Wintergreen is Nasty stuff. Just read the MSDS sheet on it sometime!!! They did at the Nats and I talked to many peole who ran it and said-traction was great and hey-they could breath normally at night, even after 12 hours at the track!!!

Theres no point in our track banning PAragon if 50 guys show up from Trinity, Associated, Corally, Schumacher, Reedy, Fantom, Xray, etc as they did last year and they all expect to use Paragon at the US Champs!!!!!

Please let me know-I could use everyones opinions here-especially guys like Paul Wynn and Todd Hodge, etc who run their race teams!!!

Thanks,
Ray
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Old 05-15-2003, 09:54 PM   #2
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ray - I race at S&N Trackside in Milwaukee, Wi. The track is paragon-free. Everyone runs either Jack, or the Racer's Choice TQ Compounds. Trinity also has a wintergreen free compound too, but i don't remember what its called.

Scotty hosts the Novak US Touring Champs every year, and the paragon v.s. others isn't really and issue. I have seen ( ..and smelled ) a couple guys using paragon at the track, but that is very rare.

The teams usually buy compound at the track anyways, They can't take that stuff on the airplane.
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Old 05-15-2003, 09:54 PM   #3
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Our track "banned" Paragon because of the same reasons you have stated. However it has not stopped all racers from using it. Some still do a quick application under the table They (other racers) claim it's the only tire compound that really works Now the track only sells Racer's Choice TQ Plus. I think it still smells as bad as Paragon.

It sounds like you have the local racers support on this, so why not have a trial period (1 month)and ban the Paragon sauce?
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:07 PM   #4
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Ray...I was at the ROAR carpet nats this year and the Jack the gripper worked great. I have been to the same track for other races when they use the TQ citrus based stuff and the traction is funny and the car and tires are ultra grummy. I like the way the Gripper works even week to week at my home tracks. The biggest thing like you said is that it doesnt smell or cause ill effects plus lately when I have used Paragon after a day of racing my hands hurt and with me using the Gripper now they dont at all. I think that if more races would go to only allowing one type of traction compound like the Gripper it would be better for everyone. I have been to the Champs a couple times and that Paragon must take weeks to get out of the hotel b/c everything smells like it. If the champs went to an oderless compound like the Gripper or something else I bet the traction would be just as high plus it would not be as bad for our health. Im all for using the Gripper at indoor races or in confined spaces. I always thought that Paragon was better on carpet but after using the Gripper it is just as good if not better in my book.
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by rc-racer
It sounds like you have the local racers support on this, so why not have a trial period (1 month)and ban the Paragon sauce?
Sell the Gripper for cheaper, as an incentive to switch on thier own, then ban paragon after a couple months.
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:22 PM   #6
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I race at the cleveland track and do agree that it was very bad before the champs. I have switched to Gripper and definately feel better driving home from each race. One potential issue is availability of Gripper. I beleive that Ray had problems getting it shipped. I am sure Ray and or other tracks cant have 100 cans laying around and we must be able to get it fairly quickly.

Ray, you know enough of the factory boys.....how about talking with them. Spashette and Blackstock should be able to share an opinion. What about talking with Bill concerning the champs. If the nationals could do it, why would the champs be any different?
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Old 05-15-2003, 11:10 PM   #7
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This last winter a new indoor track opened here and Jack the Gripper is the only traction compound allowed. The track is located in the back of a very large hobby shop so that might have been the initial reason. I think it works great. I haven't used Paragon so I can't compare though. I also have the Trinity product it's called Zip Free, it doesn't have the wintergreen smell but it still has a bad chemical odor. I only use it outdoors and once it is gone I'll only the Jack the Gripper.
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Old 05-16-2003, 12:30 AM   #8
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Here in Europe usually wintergreen based traction compoundes are banned at least indoors and I think itīs a good thing. Jack the Gripper is very common also the LRP Grip or some Team Orion.
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Old 05-16-2003, 01:11 AM   #9
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theres just something about the smell of Paragon..uhmmm
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Old 05-16-2003, 07:15 AM   #10
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Yes guys,

the commenst you make are all exactly why I dont want to use Paragon or TQ products at my track. TQ makes your tires and track have a gooey layer that wont go away. PAragon is death in a can.

I will e-mail BIll about the Champs at least supporting a non-wintergreen stance. The real issue for the Champs is you pit in your hotel room so its hard to regulate and enforce it.

I will also e-mail Schumacher, Xray, AE, Trinity and Team Losi and see what they say. For some reason I think Corally will be cool with it

Ray
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Old 05-16-2003, 07:33 AM   #11
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Hi Guys. Greetings froim Malta.

Our only experience of traction compound was on the receiving end.

At the indoor on road Worlds in 1998, held in England, wintergreen based additives were used in 1/12th. As my son was taking part in the touring cars that followed the 1/12th we spectated for the 1/12th.

Whilst the racing was great the air in the hall was deadly. In fact my son woke up the next morning with bad swellingand irritation around his eyes, and had to be taken to hospital. We later found that the cause of the irritation was the tyre additive being used.

The hall stank for days after it. I can imagine what it did to everybody's health.

I really think such additives should be banned universally by the authorities of the land, and not just by track owners and race organisers. These people are all supposed to be responsible persons.

I would be very glad if any form of tyre additive were deemed illegal in all forms of RC, indoor and outdoor. After all, if nobody has it then nobody is disadvantaged.

It just takes one organiser with balls to start. The others will soon follow.

regards

Joe from sunny Malta.
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Old 05-16-2003, 07:58 AM   #12
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THeGame......

The smell is called Cancer, and the the other smell is respitory health issues.
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Old 05-16-2003, 08:01 AM   #13
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Ray, I applaud you for taking this cause. All of us agree Paragon is nasty stuff.
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Old 05-16-2003, 08:05 AM   #14
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PARAGON is really strong, this year and the last couple of yrs. at the snowbirds it's so strong when you go into the ballroom that it makes you sick. i don't see how those factory guys stay in there
some of my friends that are factory started pit ing in there rooms because it was so strong smelling. there is a health issue for sure
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Old 05-16-2003, 08:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by spooky
THeGame......

The smell is called Cancer, and the the other smell is respitory health issues.
It is NOT a know cancer causing agent. It is a mucus membrane irritant and causes skin irritation too. There is no Exposure Limit or Permissible Exposure Level set by OSHA for it so exposure levels are not regulated.
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