Jack The Gripper vs. Paragon!!
05-18-2003, 08:03 AM
#31
Worst thing about Jack is that it doesn't come with an applicator...what up wit dat?
05-18-2003, 09:37 AM
#32
Tech Elite
Traction compounds
Driving home from the track I notice the whole inside of the Car always smells like Paragon, if I've been using it on the tires.
I personally feel that WD-40 works just about as well as Paragon and the Grip is consistant for the entire race. Doesn't smell as bad or as strong either.
I personally feel that WD-40 works just about as well as Paragon and the Grip is consistant for the entire race. Doesn't smell as bad or as strong either.
05-18-2003, 04:19 PM
#33
good thread ray!
you know my opinion regarding the jack. i actually prefer it, even from a performance standpoint. it's a little more tempermental, but works excellent when applied properly.
as far as the champs go. right on! our club was a blast last november. it will just be better without that smell!
how do you think banning paragon at the gate will affect the pre-champs attendance if it's still allowed at the big show?
personally i think there are still many that haven't tried it yet. you may just generate some sales for corally with a decision to ban the wintergreen. residual sales too. hummm.
between getting half our fast guys to run an xray (in tc3 country), and most people to switch to jack...i'd say your a valuable person to have on the team.
props to rayhuang for an insightful thread, and a great place run. and it's getting better as we speak.
you know my opinion regarding the jack. i actually prefer it, even from a performance standpoint. it's a little more tempermental, but works excellent when applied properly.
as far as the champs go. right on! our club was a blast last november. it will just be better without that smell!
how do you think banning paragon at the gate will affect the pre-champs attendance if it's still allowed at the big show?
personally i think there are still many that haven't tried it yet. you may just generate some sales for corally with a decision to ban the wintergreen. residual sales too. hummm.
between getting half our fast guys to run an xray (in tc3 country), and most people to switch to jack...i'd say your a valuable person to have on the team.
props to rayhuang for an insightful thread, and a great place run. and it's getting better as we speak.
05-18-2003, 07:30 PM
#35
Tech Regular
If I want to use the Zip Free applicator with Corally compound, how do you do it? Do you haver to take out the foam, and just pour it in? Or does it pour through the foam?
05-18-2003, 08:05 PM
#36
Seaball,
I sent an e-mail to many top teams and drivers that I sort of know and am waiting word back. I think more people would be willing to switch to it if:
1-They thought the Champs would be Paragon (Oil of Wintergreen) free.
2-They got a chance to run it (or another Wintergreen traction compound).
3-They care about there health enough to to drop the "Team Guy" anything to win attitude and say-Its not worth it feeling like Crap all race weekend long!!!
As you know I raced karts on and off since I was about 13 years old so breathing nasty chemicals is nothing new-but Paragon you soak in it indoors for 6 to 12 hours a day!! And you get it onto your hands and rub it in deep as you wipe off your tires. The it gets on your burger when you eat and gets rubbed into your eyes and is absorbed into your pores!!! Like others have said-your outdoors its not so bad!!!
Ray
p.s. I am also a new daddy and theres no way I am driving my daughter around in a car reaking of wintergreen bewteen races and no way I am giving her a hug when I get home with my clothes reaking of it also.
I sent an e-mail to many top teams and drivers that I sort of know and am waiting word back. I think more people would be willing to switch to it if:
1-They thought the Champs would be Paragon (Oil of Wintergreen) free.
2-They got a chance to run it (or another Wintergreen traction compound).
3-They care about there health enough to to drop the "Team Guy" anything to win attitude and say-Its not worth it feeling like Crap all race weekend long!!!
As you know I raced karts on and off since I was about 13 years old so breathing nasty chemicals is nothing new-but Paragon you soak in it indoors for 6 to 12 hours a day!! And you get it onto your hands and rub it in deep as you wipe off your tires. The it gets on your burger when you eat and gets rubbed into your eyes and is absorbed into your pores!!! Like others have said-your outdoors its not so bad!!!
Ray
p.s. I am also a new daddy and theres no way I am driving my daughter around in a car reaking of wintergreen bewteen races and no way I am giving her a hug when I get home with my clothes reaking of it also.
05-18-2003, 08:23 PM
#37
and....
Dont forget you get it in your nose when picking
spooky.....that brush is useless. it does not hold the compound like the paragon aplicator. Most of us have cleaned out a paragon can and aplicator and are using it.
spooky.....that brush is useless. it does not hold the compound like the paragon aplicator. Most of us have cleaned out a paragon can and aplicator and are using it.
05-19-2003, 08:34 AM
#39
Where's the Love for the Black and Purple Can?
Here I go steppin' on my good friend Ray's toes:
Jack the Gripper has a faint odor, Paragon has a strong odor. Okay, I accept these established facts. Now on to my argument.............
Jack the Gripper is not a health friendly chemical compound, and I would venture a guess it's no less toxic than Paragon.Just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it won't kill you. I have raced at "Gripper" tracks, and I, who have no adverse reaction to Paragon, have a headache when I leave those venues. Zip free is even worse than Gripper in the headache department.
I've raced a long time and I've used some pretty evil chemicals in the name of performance. Motor Cleaners, Comm Drops, Traction Additives, Greases etc. best example: TRINITY RED DOT!! Open a can of that indoors, and prepare for the stampede of people towards the door!
Here's another problem: I've personally seen a ton of Anti-Paragon lobbyists in my area spray their motors out with brake cleaner, using their bare hands!!!! Look at the MSDS on the ingredients of any brake cleaner/electric motor cleaner and you'll see that oil of wintergreen is pretty tame by comparison. I've seen dremels used to grind graphite, and bodies painted with SPRAY CANS without a respirator!! Doesn't sound all that health concious does it?
I'm PARAGON biased, I'll admit it. The only other stuff I like to use is CRC Downforce, and it's wintergreen based too. I have used every type of compound available to the US market, and the best is by far Paragon. I'll forgo the dissertation on why I don't like the performance of the Gripper, or Zip Free, or TQ, or Orion, unless somebody wants me to explain what I think about them in detail.
........ taking a deep breath, and stepping down from the proverbial soapbox.
Jack the Gripper has a faint odor, Paragon has a strong odor. Okay, I accept these established facts. Now on to my argument.............
Jack the Gripper is not a health friendly chemical compound, and I would venture a guess it's no less toxic than Paragon.Just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it won't kill you. I have raced at "Gripper" tracks, and I, who have no adverse reaction to Paragon, have a headache when I leave those venues. Zip free is even worse than Gripper in the headache department.
I've raced a long time and I've used some pretty evil chemicals in the name of performance. Motor Cleaners, Comm Drops, Traction Additives, Greases etc. best example: TRINITY RED DOT!! Open a can of that indoors, and prepare for the stampede of people towards the door!
Here's another problem: I've personally seen a ton of Anti-Paragon lobbyists in my area spray their motors out with brake cleaner, using their bare hands!!!! Look at the MSDS on the ingredients of any brake cleaner/electric motor cleaner and you'll see that oil of wintergreen is pretty tame by comparison. I've seen dremels used to grind graphite, and bodies painted with SPRAY CANS without a respirator!! Doesn't sound all that health concious does it?
I'm PARAGON biased, I'll admit it. The only other stuff I like to use is CRC Downforce, and it's wintergreen based too. I have used every type of compound available to the US market, and the best is by far Paragon. I'll forgo the dissertation on why I don't like the performance of the Gripper, or Zip Free, or TQ, or Orion, unless somebody wants me to explain what I think about them in detail.
........ taking a deep breath, and stepping down from the proverbial soapbox.
05-19-2003, 08:58 AM
#40
Cypress-when your old skool like yourself-they make you drink it in small drops till you buld up an immunity to it!!! Now as an adult-you can drink it like a shot of Jagermeister!!!
I dont get a headache or any i'll affects from Jack-but TQ products give me a worse headache than Paragon, but not the respitory distress. SO far the Jack is the only one that works that doesnt make me feel sick in some way.
Great points on the motor spray and spray bombs!!!
I dont get a headache or any i'll affects from Jack-but TQ products give me a worse headache than Paragon, but not the respitory distress. SO far the Jack is the only one that works that doesnt make me feel sick in some way.
Great points on the motor spray and spray bombs!!!
05-19-2003, 11:48 AM
#41
I hated to get up on the old pulpit, It's your track and it won't stop me from coming up to race with you guys. I just hate having to keep a bunch of tires for each track I go to. A bunch for Paragon at Ultra, a bunch for Gripper at the 'Gate, etc. It's a bit expensive.
Here's my other deal with it: In my experience both Zip Free and Gripper have MORE bite than Paragon. If I let 'em soak long enough to get grip for 8 mins, my car has too much grip from the rubber to free it up mechanically. If I don't let it sit for at least 10 mins. though, it's still too grippy up front, and then at around the 7 min. mark it's gone. Paragon on the other hand is proven and consistent, 8 mins. every time. Same thing with Frank's stuff.
Check out Frank's DownForce Lite and see what you think. It's not nearly as strong smelling as Paragon, with only a slight drop in grip level, and it's consistent as hell, start to finish.
Here's my other deal with it: In my experience both Zip Free and Gripper have MORE bite than Paragon. If I let 'em soak long enough to get grip for 8 mins, my car has too much grip from the rubber to free it up mechanically. If I don't let it sit for at least 10 mins. though, it's still too grippy up front, and then at around the 7 min. mark it's gone. Paragon on the other hand is proven and consistent, 8 mins. every time. Same thing with Frank's stuff.
Check out Frank's DownForce Lite and see what you think. It's not nearly as strong smelling as Paragon, with only a slight drop in grip level, and it's consistent as hell, start to finish.
05-19-2003, 12:09 PM
#42
How does Corally's TC3 compound measure up? I got some to use when it's really cold and hard to get grip at the start of a race but I havn't had to use it yet.
Thanks.
Thanks.
05-19-2003, 05:23 PM
#44
Re: Where's the Love for the Black and Purple Can?
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Here's another problem: I've personally seen a ton of Anti-Paragon lobbyists in my area spray their motors out with brake cleaner, using their bare hands!!!! Look at the MSDS on the ingredients of any brake cleaner/electric motor cleaner and you'll see that oil of wintergreen is pretty tame by comparison. I've seen dremels used to grind graphite, and bodies painted with SPRAY CANS without a respirator!! Doesn't sound all that health concious does it?
Here's another problem: I've personally seen a ton of Anti-Paragon lobbyists in my area spray their motors out with brake cleaner, using their bare hands!!!! Look at the MSDS on the ingredients of any brake cleaner/electric motor cleaner and you'll see that oil of wintergreen is pretty tame by comparison. I've seen dremels used to grind graphite, and bodies painted with SPRAY CANS without a respirator!! Doesn't sound all that health concious does it?
05-19-2003, 06:39 PM
#45
I am with Ian. As far as performance goes I think Paragon cannot be beaten. When the bite is high CRC Downforce is pretty good as well. All the tracks that I have been to with Zip Free or Jack have been inconsistent........ I am also with Ian and that I will sstill race at the Gate. Doesn't matter to me. Everyone has to deal with the same conditions.
Best thing would be to get a confirmation on what is allowed at the "Champs" this year............ If Paragon is allowed people will be running it.....
Best thing would be to get a confirmation on what is allowed at the "Champs" this year............ If Paragon is allowed people will be running it.....