How High-End Do We Need Our Equipment To Be Competitive ???
 

Well, as the topic stated above how expensive do our equipment need to be for us to race competitively??? Most people race with high-end stuffs but there are low budget racers that is quite competitive........

So how much difference does high-end equipment does to a racer???

Lets discuss shall we......:nod:

competitve in club racing is easy. i.e being mid field. you can be midfield with stick packs and a sport chassis like a ta05 or cyclone S.

but wining even in club racing you need top line equipment.

tires, battery, motor and chassis

That's BS... The fast guys will still be the fast guys no matter what they run... It's their drive to be the fastest and attention to detail in setting up the car that make the difference...

^^^ thats b.s

whens the last time you saw the top 3 in any decent club event run anything other than 1.25+v matched packs and a race level chassis

yeah fast guys will be fast, but fast guys dont use cheap shit

Fast guys will always be fast no matter what they run (to a point), and slow guys will always be slow and blame it on the equipment.

A chassis like the TA05 or whatever the sport Xray is will be more than enough for most people, they have all the same adjustments, you are much better to spend the money where it counts, decent motor and decent matched cells, you don't need a stupid expensive charger and or discharger, comm lathe etc. instead of buying all the alloy bling that everyone "has" to have because they think it will make them faster, go out and buy a few sets of tyres and practice until they are worn out, I guarantee it WILL make you faster.

So yes you can race on a tight budget, but you need to buy smarter not buy more.

oh boy, i'm gonna catch hell for this, but,

may i point out that the NEW roar masters champ used a xray fk05 to beat the 6 six time defending champ who was using the latest and greatest xray 007.

i believe FATHEAD has hit the nail on the head.

What??
 

Look, you take Baker, Lemieux, Tosolini, or any fast guy and put them in identical prepared cars with same motor and 3300 stick pack and they will be the top drivers against anyone! Why? They will out drive you. Yeah, they race the good batteries and equipment, but that is because they have too. Competition at that level requires that expense, not to them, but the cost of that equipment and batteries. The best way to move up at your club races is practice, practice, practice,and more practice. As you become faster and a better driver, you will begin getting better motors and better batteries because they will help you push the car as you become better. In the end, if you are a very good driver, you can overcome many others in racing that have better equipment because they can't handle that equipment. But, if someone is a very good racers with good equipment, you can know he will probably be faster than you and better stuff is the only way to compete.

I continue to be one of the fastest guys at our racing sessions with a 3 year old PRO 4...ONE 1 year old 4800 orion lipo, and and a novak 4.5 brushless...

I am up against 12 to 15 guys weekly, on a 100 x 125 road course, all of which are running 07 x rays.......and multiple packs and the best equipment.........and all running 3.5's, 4.5's and the latest 13 mm rotors

I won the a main last week with the second fastest laps of the week.......

and not because I am fast.........I'm older, and not as quick as I used to be.......but that PRO 4, every week, is perfectly set up, never breaks, and I run it with the same set up all the time......I've learned to drive the car no matter what it does....and it fits me like the palm of my hand.....

michael schumacher will beat you and i in a ford festiva even if we had ferraris. but MS would be able to do that against other top line drivers.

or rodger federe will beat anyone even some pros with a $40 walmart tennis racquet, but play someone with equal skill or even a bit lesseor skill (eg roddick) with a cheap racquet his task will be so much harder.

like i said to WIN you have to have the best. to be mid pack you can run anything u want if u got enough skill.

It's not about having the highest end equipment to be competitive, it's about having the highest end equipment because it's pimp.

I don't buy a new car every year because I think it's going to make me a better driver, I do it because I want the best shiniest thing I can get my hands on.

Do I really need a $35 anodized aluminum timing jig when all I do is run stock and 19t? NO..but it makes one pimp ass tool/pen holder.

depends how competitive your club is.

some people go faster with stock motors then people with mod motors.

experience is invaluable, and experience will beat a newbie with top line equipment any day.

what we are talking about here is equal skill and experience of course top line batteries, motor tiuning skills and chassis will give u that 0.10 second a lap edge, and that edge is only usefull if u dont lose 10seconds every few laps by hitting the curbs and rolling it.

Probably the most important thing you need is a good radio and servos. Servo being the most important. I have seen beginners try to run the $20 servo that come in the radio kit and it just does not have the power to make the car drive correctly. Depending on the class get the best servo possible. Not that I want this to sound like an advertizement but Futaba has some really good digital and brushless servos that will get the job done. The 3PM 2.4 radio is also a good buy. Seaball used this radio before the 2.4 and made many Stock national A mains so you know it is good. Since everyone is going to 2.4 lately you will save some money now by getting it to start. Not only that but you'll have no radio glitches that always seem to hamper beginner drivers.

Hope this helps,
Paul

I agree, a good radio and servo is very important to be competitive. For batteries, it doesn't have to be high end, just get a lipo and charger. For stock motors, high end is important to stay competitive, but for mod, it is easier because I can go and pick out pretty much any mod motor and be just as fast as the guys on our track running 5.5 brushless. A high end soldering iron is good to have.

Also, you can't go wrong having a high end set of tools too. If you have a poor set of tools or just allen wrenches, you will be stuck in the pits when you could be practicing or racing.

my club is very competitive...they all race all over in Ny and Nj....off road at barnstormers and dirt runners, carpet racing in long island.....they are all A main guys.......again, not trying to say I am good, trying to stress that high end does not mean faster....

BTW, one thing I DO NOT scrimp on is tires.........to me, properly set ball diffs, and fresh tires do more for me than anything......and I will also say that good support equipment is important, as long as you use it.....my fave is the HUDY ultimate set up...and IRS balancing balls.....


this is a short clip taken on my phone of a practice session......it is outdoor in Nanuet NY...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfWGpmY5kDc

tires.

for stock and 19t i think that u need to have that little extra in equipment because everyone is running the same motors, but then again if you cant drive it, it doesnt matter. how high end do we need to be? just dont go too cheap, but more than likely people want to upgrade, and it is always cheaper to get the best from the start. just my opinion :smile:

I'm a low/mid pack driver at our club. I regularly buy our fast guy's batts and motors. I used to use the excuse that I was running "used" batts and thats why I sucked.

Well - Race #1 of the season came around and the fast guy didn't have his batts yet so I lent him batts I bought from him a year ago. I cherry picked the worst numbers and lent him 3 packs.

My a$$ was handed to me on a silver platter with gravy on the side.

Natural talent and practice will overcome equipement anytime. The problem is very few people will admit to themselves that they just don't have the talent and/or practice enough.

I also beleive that if you have 0 talent, no amount of practice is going to make you a A-main regular.

So buy smart - some stuff used - some new stuff - some high end, some low end....and enjoy the hobby. Race at your level and strive to improve a little at a time. A pit full of Much More bling won't make you faster - but you will look cool!!!

Its not about how high-end your equipment is, it is about how much time do you put into it. You can spend monies on the highest end stuff but will still suck if you don't know how to build the car properly, set it up to your driving skills, and practice your butt off to become better at it. If your car is not set up to your style of driving and you don't take time to practice, practice, practice, it would not matter if you have batteries with the best numbers, etc, etc, because you will still finish behind the folks that take the extra time to do those things.

First: Setup, setup, setup, it's all about the setup.

Second: Learn how to setup your car first before blowing your wad. $$$$.$$

New stuff: Be practical and buy what you can afford. This does not mean buy the cheapest stuff, but remember that to race you will need extra parts, tires, and batt's. If you run brushed motors, you will need some basic motor maintenance items as well.

Tools: As mentioned, good tools go along way in helping you finish repairs quicker and better, and then also with the setup of your car. Start with purchasing a few high quality tools of the most common used, then buy more over time.

Need: Of course you have to start with the basics, a good set of batts, charger, etc... but the most important difference in how my car drove was a good servo, period. I use a Futaba S9550 as recommended by many here and most at my local track.

Driving to win: As noted several times before, you have to develop the skill and reflex's to race in a confined area with other cars. Practice or regular racing is important to developing the skills and reflex's. This is second to learning how to setup your car, but both are very important.

Money: As explained above, it's not about how much money, it's about setup ability and skill as a driver. We have a few drivers that run with good equipment at my local track, not the top/top end stuff, and they will simply out drive most people. You may be faster in some areas, but when I make mistakes, I get passed or break the car.

Barry Baker used to put the TC4 in the A racing against cars that were what, 4 generations ahead? That's just one example, but a wheel is a wheel. I also think people are overlooking the importance of car setup and preparation. Look around the pits, I bet you'll see plenty of guys wheeling $500 sedans with great batteries and motors that are constantly in disrepair, and haven't even begun to approach a proper setup for their racing conditions.

To answer the original question.... for road course, it is much less important to have high-end equipment. Oval racing does tend to reward high-end equipment a little more. You can buy a little speed in oval. But in general, driving skills and car setup far outweigh high-end equipment.

arghhh...where else would i be spending my hard-earned money :lol: :lol: :lol: let my boys work their ass for their money later

high end Equipment Makes difference but not a Magic...
At Last Club meeting one of my club mate raced against me with brand new cells and guess What :D

here's some food for thought, get all the world drivers to race spec cars and only option would be the transmitter and see who's really fast, I call it the IROC of RC hehe

anyways highend? I've been laying low for a year now and my stuff is dated however it was high tech a year a go and many of it can still be bought in the used section and you'll be just as High tech as last year... just make sure your motors and cells are new and make sure your car is setup properly (square and easy for you to drive it) and you should be just as fast "in a straight line"... nothing has really changed though the years just the ones with the best motor and cells have it easier. BUt that's not to say 3800's still can't hack it cause I know I can place decently its simply my driving that stinks not the gear

here's more food for thought my long time friend took some time off and recently raced his RC12L; with the help of my more current motors and cells he was able to hack it with the people whom been racing year after year.

How high end???
 

Equipment doesn't need to be high end to be competitive at a most club levels in sportsman stock TC. You can make the A at most clubs with about 500 worth of equipment. It just takes skill. It kinda remind's me of that golf movie with billy bob thorton, where the women shows up with all the latest and greatest golf stuff to make her good and she can't even hit the ball. Granted if everyone in your class is a great driver and running the latest and greatest then your going to have to have the latest and greatest to compete. But in most stock sportsman classes you have those guys that have the latest and greatest but can't drive worth anything and then you have the guys that have $500-$600 woth of stuff and they are consistantly in the top 5.

To start spending money you should look at your lap times, if your consistant. By new batts, then see if you stay consistant now that your a little faster, then upgrade to maybe a pro-spec motor. Again check your lap times. The real question is, did you just gain your moneys worth in speed. If you paid $90 for a matched pack and then you gain 1/10th of second at a club event. Save your money!!! Base your purchase on lap times, but the only way to do that is to drive consistant.

If I were to do it again I would pay for a permanant corner marshall, that way my car would get flipped back over faster, that would have made me faster then anything else I spent money on. :-)

At the club level, it all depends on how much success you want to have. If you want to be a mid pack, racing because it is fun, kind of racer... then you dont need to have the best of the best. You just need something good enough to get you started so that you can learn how the car is going to react to a certain setup change. But if you are past the entry level, and are looking to win some races, then some upgraded equipment is not a bad idea. Just this year I decided that I wanted to race touring cars and be competitive. So I got a TC5, Ko Propo Helios, Ko Propo low profile servo, Novak GTX ESC, 3800 battery, and a CO27 motor. Sure it was a big investment... But I have yet to second guess whether I made the right choice for electronics. I constantly finish in the top 5, and have even won a few races. And I do not feel that it would have been possible with my old T-Spec car that I started out with. So I say yes, you have to pay for the high end equipment to be competitive. Even at the club level. But if you just want to have fun, than you can get by with compromising your equipment. Just dont expect to be a front runner...

K_Spec_RC

What you stated is not entirely true. I have been to some club races in other parts of the country recently where some of the faster racers at the club race older equipment (ie, AE TC3, 3300/3800 batteries, Losi XXX-KE, etc). The one thing that I noticed that those racers were dialed into their cars. These guys also find the time to practice alot during the week between club races. So, don't always buy into the hype. It is nice to have the high-end stuff but why spend the extra money if you don't do anything to improve your driving skills or learn how to set up you car for different track conditions. If you suck as a driver, you will just suck with more expense stuff.;):lol:

Probably the most important thing you need is a good radio and servos. Servo being the most important. I have seen beginners try to run the $20 servo that come in the radio kit and it just does not have the power to make the car drive correctly. Depending on the class get the best servo possible.

A good radio is very important, if you don't finish the race or lose interest because you are having nothing but radio glitches, you will be ready to give up. I was talking to one of the guys that runs TC with me yesterday and he said I was about to give up, because I could not get my radio to work right. I was in the same boat, myself until I bought a Spektrum. As far as servos go the same is true buy the strongest fastest that you need for your class. I stripped the gears out of 4 steering servos in 2 weeks before I quit messing around and bought a high torque metal geared servo.

Find a racer at your local track that has a car that he would be willing to part with, and start with a used chassis and work from there. I am sure you will be able to find something, every race day at my local track there are peoele selling some car or another.

I totally agree with that. However, in addition to the new equipment, I also practice every opportunity that I get. I would agree that more than anything, practice is what will make you better. But as per the context of this thread, I believe that what I stated is true in a general sense. But as you stated, there are the few who do just as well with older equipment. But what you have to remember is... Those drivers have been racing their particular chassis for quite some time. Just because they bought them a few years ago (most likely brand new) does not mean that they spent any less on their equipment than anyone else did. And I think that further proves the point I am trying to make.

I think radio and servo is the most important equipment, presume you know how to set the car properly and have a decent car. this is because you could drive and better feel of the car> this will make you drive more consistent as well.

EngTat

Slower is faster.

Speed comes from good practice.

When your racing, concentrate on someone who is close to your speed. Race them, not the TQ. This keeps it fun and you always have a chance to win. When you have that person covered, move on to someone else.

Most important...
Don't get caught up in the "game". Run your own race. If your painfully honest with yourself, you'll know when your equiptment is holding you back.


Ben

Well I haven't raced in about a while, but when I did, I raced against some insane competition. Names like Cuffs, Schreffler, Fairtrace, Swift, Pressinger...and many more that frequented Horsham and Jackson. I was even teammates with a few of em when I was on express. These guys could use 1.18's and smoke you when you had 1.22's (remember it's been a while.) True they did have the big stick in their box if they needed it, but you have to remember...there's only so many cycles on a pack...can't use them every run.

It's about how you prep and your attention to details. I was never on the level these guys were and probably never will be, but that was because I couldn't devote the time to practice and make sure my car was right (and I guess something to do with skill :p ). I fell into the "I gotta have great cells to compete" trap and spent way more money on motors and batteries instead of tires and track time.

Just an old former slow guy's humble opinion

This is one of the better points made on this thread. Most of "the latest, greatest car/batteries/motors, etc" is a trap to get "us" to spend more monies when much of the time we don't have to. I run both electric and nitro touring cars. In nitro, I was just as competitive with my local competitors with my stock MTX-3 against their MTX-3 Prospecs and MTX-4s with all the hop-ups and bling-bling. Why? It was because I started to learn to set up and drive the car to "my" abilities. Plus, I spent a few days each month between races practicing the basics (hitting corners right, when to roll on and off the throttle in turns, how to respond and input when you car over/understeers in corners, etc). I learned my cars and what inputs did what to my cars on the track. I found "my" setup for my cars, not Burch's, Swauger's, Baker's, or Skidmore's setups. Those setups are fine for them, but, I am not them. Let someone else stated somewhere on this forum, I worked with what I had until I could not do better before I moved to the next car in the line (latest/greatest).

Well it is true that you dont need great equipment to succeed......but it does help to own them......imagine running batteries that dont have the punch and power you need.....how are you gonna catch up with others....:nod:

A mediocre driver and a great setup will beat a great driver and a mediocre setup every time in most situations. I believe in racing for the fun of it, and to me running up front is the only way to have fun. That being said, I think its crucial to have these parts, in this order:
- The best tires for that track, meticulously prepped and maintained. Doesnt matter how great your setup or driving ability is, if the tire isnt making maximum traction, you wont be a contender at the higher levels of racing.
- Free suspension. Polished, trimmed, using Teflon, Delrin, ceramic bearings, etc. It doesnt have to be aluminum or look pretty, it needs to be free and it needs to minimize sprung mass.
- Properly built shocks. Might take a while to get them perfect, but I think its important that they are built properly with the proper pistons and oil.
- Good servo and good servo mounting. Fast and responsive, mounted properly.

I feel that with those components, a solid setup and a good driver, you can be competitive at most tracks. If youre running against stiff competition at a big, sweeping track, a little motor cant hurt if you get the power to the ground.

if you think you don't need good motors, batteries and tires to succeed then your not racing in a competitive club

For the most part, if you aspire to win races and make the A Mains at big events you need a better car, batteries, motor and the right tires. But that doesnt necessarily mean you need to spend $2500.

You can save money by buying proven used racers like the FK05, XXXS, TC4, Pro4. But they definately were not cheap or inferior cars. Its just the opposite. The were the best cars out there just 3-4 years ago and won races at the highest level. And they werent terribly inexpensive either. They were all $250 - 400 if memory serves me correctly. And they can obviously still win in the right hands.

But you don't see many poeple having much success with 4Tecs, Sprints, TL01s, etc. So the car does make a difference.

Fortunately, If you just looking to compete at the club level, there are a lot of good cars $200 and under that will do the job. The problem is that once you get close to the fastest guys you race against, you might never find the last few 1/10s you need to get you to the podium.

Equipment...
Chargers: You get what you pay for... A $50.00 charger might give you a full charge maybe 75% of the time with 25% false peaks. Batterys will not last long or give you the best performance.
A $300 charger will give you a full charge 98% but has built in options for checking and monitoring while charging and be able to do maintenance as well as motors, discharges and cycles the packs..

Batteries same as above.. Soldering irons.. radios.. ESC.. also the same as above.

Now cars are different.. You have to pick the one that fits you.. And that has already been posted in here...

But nothing can make a person faster and better that practice.. Practice... Practice...

LOL what's funny is some of the fast club guys I've raced against ARE using the TA05 to crush everyone else. They happen to know a ton about setup, are great drivers and the TA05 does great for them. They also school everyone else except the nats A & B main level guys. And some of them do it on a very reasonable (relatively speaking) racing budget.

dont bother buying 3 year old second hand cars.... stripped screws, stripped knuckles, worn bearings, dirty diffs, worn chassis, sloppy arms, sloppy steering rack, worn uni's ... not to mention lack of spare parts support for the fk05.

I look at it this way...

If you buy the best high-end gear and the car doesn't perform well, it's usually you and not the gear. IMO, when you're just starting off, this is an important consideration. If you don't do well with less than high-end gear, somewhere in the back of your mind, you're thinking that it's the gear and not you - which may or may not be the case. This isn't universally true, but I'm sure most people know what I'm getting at.

If you're on a budget, then the important thing to do is maintain that budget! R/C spending can quickly get out of hand and before you know it, you're blowing way more money than you intended. You may not be the fastest guy out on the track, but if you're just starting off, it's more important to work on your skills and have a good time, rather than killling yourself trying to make the A Main - which may not be possible anyway, even with the best gear.

Being competitive is really a relative term based on what your expectations are. These days, I just want to do well in whatever main I qualify for and have a good time. While I don't expect to place in every race, placing is good for the soul (and ego) and makes me want to come back for more. I would imagine that it would be very discouraging if I never placed.