R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-26-2007, 08:05 PM   #1
Tech Fanatic
 
fatbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 811
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to fatbear
Default Are all Brushless motors created equal?

We are looking at the possibility of running a restricted modified using brushed OR brushless motors.
Currently we run to a 12turn limit in modified here in New Zealand and the proposal is to allow a brushless equivalent along with the brushed motors.
We know from some testing we have done with a Novak 6.5 in several cars that the times are basically exactly the same as their brushed setups.
My question is this, if other brand 6.5 motors are used are they effectively the same as the Novak motors? In other words can I use all brand 6.5 motors in a spec class and they should all thoretically be approximately the same like one brand 12T brushed motor vs another brands 12T motor?
What does the 6.5 refer to exactly?
fatbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 06:42 AM   #2
Tech Elite
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Elburn, IL
Posts: 3,428
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

They will be approximately the same, but differences will always be present. It is just like brushed motors, company A uses this brush setup and company B uses a little different setup. The are close in performance, but one may have more top end and the other may have more torque. Not all brushless motors are exactely the same either. The 6.5 refers to the number of winds on the stator of the motor. The motors with this name will all have the same number of winds, but other things may be different like the number of wires wrapped (single, double, etc) and geometry of the core. If you really want equalized performance, you would probably have to mandate a specific motor from one manufacturer.
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 01:55 PM   #3
Tech Addict
 
BigDaddyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Port Moody, BC
Posts: 620
Send a message via MSN to BigDaddyT
Default

Unfortunately, there are more variables in it. The type of wind (Wye or Delta) and Composition of the Rotor (Bonded, Sintered) will play a big part in the type of power generated by a BL motor. The industry is struggling right now as a whole with how to rate them. Hopefully we will get there soon.
__________________
T-Bang Hobby Technology Inc. - www.t-bang.ca
Extreme Performance RC Motors and Racing Supplies - Vancouver, Canada
Team Corally - Trinity - Dekelz.com
BigDaddyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 02:21 PM   #4
Tech Elite
 
SWTour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Coast...CALIF.
Posts: 2,874
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

...so the long and the short of it would be - YOU can make a SPEC type MOD class, but really the only way to keep it even 'performance' wise would be to also limit the MFG. of the motor to all being 'the same'

That takes the Wye vs the DELTA winds out - you can take out Sensored vs. sensorless, etc.

IS THIS FAIR?

It depends on WHO you are trying to be fair too.

A)FAIR to the COMPETITION

B)FAIR to the COMPANY who made his product NOT FIT within a parameter that lets HIS product be used against another.
SWTour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 02:54 PM   #5
Tech Master
 
Jim S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,357
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Jim S
Default

no they are not all created equal
Jim S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2007, 07:26 PM   #6
Tech Regular
 
GymBeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Losi|Novak|MuchMore
Posts: 434
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

6.5 refers to the number of turns

yes novak 6.5 and lrp 6.5 is very comparable.

like all motors though, even a novak 6.5 vs another novak 6.5 will have minor differences like magnet strenght. but its really very very minimal.

more important is what batteries you have and how fresh they are.

e.g even if someone has a Novak4.5 but has old GP3300's. Then another guy has a novak 6.5 with fresh matched IB WC 4200's that are only 1 week old, the guy with the 6.5 would be much much faster than the guy with the 4.5
GymBeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 03:53 AM   #7
Tech Adept
 
Phroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 159
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Apparently some guy has made a little gadget that gives a reading on the strength of the magnet on the rotor from BL motors.. (check out the current episode of rctv.com) so i guess not, looks like some rotors may have stronger rotors than others.. but.. has'nt this sorta business been going on since peope started racing tamiya hornets lol.. as brushless becomes more main stream racers are always guna look for the edge... but hey.. thats racin'
Phroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 02:38 PM   #8
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fresno,CA
Posts: 266
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Check out this meter. Not a bad price compared to the ZUBAK meter. (scroll down)
gezer2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 03:01 PM   #9
V12
Tech Elite
 
V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,641
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I think you canīt compare brushed and brushless motors as brushless always do have more power and efficiency at least as soon as youīre running sintered rotors. Also I donīt know how you want rate a certain motor. For brushed motors there are some dynos available what can help but until now there is not one single dyno available (at least not for the public) what can run brushless motors. Those meters wonīt help very much.
V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 03:58 PM   #10
Tech Addict
 
RussB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 736
Send a message via MSN to RussB
Default

not all brushed 12turn motors are the same either, so that would be something to consider.
RussB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 04:12 PM   #11
Tech Lord
 
protc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Spring Hill,Florida
Posts: 10,838
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

with the sintered rotors,they all seem to be pretty close.the differences between them are much smaller than between brushed motors.
__________________
Jason Breiner
BMI Racing
Team Associated
J Concepts
protc3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2007, 09:42 PM   #12
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fresno,CA
Posts: 266
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

You can use a Fantom dyno to dyno a BL motor.
gezer2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2007, 08:15 AM   #13
V12
Tech Elite
 
V12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,641
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

How should this work? The Fantom can generate 3-phase voltage? I donīt think so.
V12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
23T stock motor is equal to which brushless motor ioxqq Electric On-Road 9 11-04-2013 08:19 PM
Are all air filters created equal? rmdhawaii Nitro On-Road 26 01-13-2007 08:20 PM
POLL: is this the best setup board ever created?? VenomWorldOrder Australian Racing 20 03-09-2005 01:19 AM
POLL: is this the best setup board ever created?? VenomWorldOrder Electric On-Road 18 03-07-2005 08:14 AM
New RC related MSN chatroom created! Morpheus2be Malaysian R/C Racers 8 02-23-2003 12:33 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:59 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net