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Old 05-28-2007, 03:01 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne
Oh dear, so much BS, so little fact...

Rare-earth magnet 19T and 27T motors are THE future for the Stock classes.
Now that is TOSH

My BS as you call it ,is not

and if some one post's certain views don't go around slagging them off
just agree to disagree
otherwise there be less poster's on these type of forums due to the fact ,response's like your's are seen as a agressive response and drive people away

trinity drag motor would be cack in a TC car ,this is why it is a DRAG motor

i`m Talking and when it comes over to the UK it is nearly the same
ie;;$80.00 = 80.00 (that's UK company's for you some ones must make a living i suppose
PS;;runtime bit ;;was re;;battrey's not the motor getting hot
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:34 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
i`m Talking and when it comes over to the UK it is nearly the same
ie;;$80.00 = 80.00 (that's UK company's for you some ones must make a living i suppose
So, same price as a BL Mod in the UK then - much too expensive!!

And before you call rare-earth Stock tosh, I suggest you drive one. If you had, you'd know it wasn't tosh, it is the future. Or is it that you only have one future, and that any other vision of the future is tosh??

Please stop telling me that the only motor worth running is a BL, and that by running BD I am some sort of idiot who should be shunned and ridiculed. The thing I have against these threads is the attitude that if you don't like something, you must be against it. So, since I like BL in its place (TC Mod apparently) and not anywhere else (yet), and being polite about it isn't what's wanted, I choose to point out that BL has a significant number of problems, and plenty of uninformed BS posted.

There is room for both IMHO, but apparently in this day and age (and forum) there isn't - it has to be one thing or the other - as any quick look at the signature lines tells you. Since this is the style of this forum, I can adopt it as easy as the next guy. Fortunately, I can attend a Club/National series that welcomes and supports both motors.
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:33 PM   #93
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Brushless sucks because it breaks too many parts.

On my M03 Mini...19t brush motor + 3800mah nicad battery = 12 mins, 19t motor + lipo 6000mah battery = 25 mins of hard driving. 4.5 velocity brush less motor + lipo mah battery = 40 mins easy. does it run hot? nope....the brushless motor has built in heatsinks. however, putting this set-up on my ta05, it runs hot due to gearing, but it's fast as hell. i run 10 mins...cool down and run another 10 mins. i plan to use a fan set-up soon. all this using a novak gtb esc. it's hard not to like brushless motors. the sound and smoothness is top notch. but i have broken a spur gear (wasn't tighten) and one rear diff joint on the ta05. the parts are cheap anyways.
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Old 05-28-2007, 08:52 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo
If you run motors with the sintered rotors within spec and with the appropriate gearing, the rotors should not require replacement. The Novak motors are thermally protected when used with a Novak esc.

Novak doesn't use the term "rare earth magnets". But here are descriptions of rotor materials:

Sintered Rotors: Sintered magnets are a type of ceramic composed of compressed Neodymium-Iron-Boron powder. Sintering involves the compaction of fine alloy powder in a die, and then fusing the powder into a solid material with heat. While the sintered magnets are solid, their physical properties are more similar to a ceramic, and are easily broken and chipped. Sintered NdFeB magnets are generally plated or coated with Nickel-Copper-Nickel plating to prevent corrosion. Nickel-Copper-Nickel plating has excellent corrosion resistance and durability as well as providing a clean and shiny appearance. Magnets used in Novak motors are high-energy 30 MGOe, and high temperature materials.

Bonded Rotors: A recent development in magnetic materials is the high-energy polymer bonded magnet. Magnetic powder, namely neodymium-iron-boron (NdFeB), is blended with polymer and injection molded to form complex shapes. A maximum magnetic energy level of 12 MGOe is attainable with bonded magnets. The biggest shortcoming of bonded magnets is the low operating temperatures.
un4, yeah, but in onroad touring i have seen ppl thermal and all, i know that is on gearing really, but still.... i dont want to need more sooo soon, just want one motor and race it, but how bad does the die feel? big diff, or?

and novak, yeah, thats what i thought, and yeah, i know the prosess, jw why everyone is called the mags special earth, shorter to say neo mags
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:53 AM   #95
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the only thing i see as TOSH is amount of different class's diluting other class's .which put's people off bothering with this hobby ,thus making it a elitist Hobby to which only the pro's or racers that got money to throw around are driving this HOBBY in THERE direction & trampling all over the newcomers/Hobbyist's & driving them away

seem's ironic with all these new class's popping up & new spec's to run too there are less & less racers around to support LHS & Local track's

this TC only ,Nitro 1/8th etc are happy ,only thing they worry about is noise polution in the UK

untill the racing scene settles down & the class's settle down to a simpler format & the formet run's the same from 1 club to another then it can take a run & jump of a long pier
coz i can't be arsed with all this pissing around throwing money at it just to race against 3 racers running the same stuff or better still to be legal at 1 club instead of all of them

time the Guy's at the top stop looking in the mirror & touching them selves up & start earning there respective places in this Racing hobby of ours instead going around & having a quick one of the wrist

at the moment the racing scene in the UK is like a head less chicken that needs putting down ( try & catch it first
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:19 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
the only thing i see as TOSH is amount of different class's diluting other class's .which put's people off bothering with this hobby ,thus making it a elitist Hobby to which only the pro's or racers that got money to throw around are driving this HOBBY in THERE direction & trampling all over the newcomers/Hobbyist's & driving them away

seem's ironic with all these new class's popping up & new spec's to run too there are less & less racers around to support LHS & Local track's

this TC only ,Nitro 1/8th etc are happy ,only thing they worry about is noise polution in the UK

untill the racing scene settles down & the class's settle down to a simpler format & the formet run's the same from 1 club to another then it can take a run & jump of a long pier
coz i can't be arsed with all this pissing around throwing money at it just to race against 3 racers running the same stuff or better still to be legal at 1 club instead of all of them

time the Guy's at the top stop looking in the mirror & touching them selves up & start earning there respective places in this Racing hobby of ours instead going around & having a quick one of the wrist

at the moment the racing scene in the UK is like a head less chicken that needs putting down ( try & catch it first
MAke sure you don't hold back Colin.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:25 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
the only thing i see as TOSH is amount of different class's diluting other class's .which put's people off bothering with this hobby ,thus making it a elitist Hobby to which only the pro's or racers that got money to throw around are driving this HOBBY in THERE direction & trampling all over the newcomers/Hobbyist's & driving them away
More tosh!

Take a look at any Club in the USA and what do you find - why lots of different classes run on the same night and regular attendances we can only dream of! When will the little Englanders realise that the more classes you run, the more drivers you get. Just because the BRCA want to run Nationals for only one class does not mean this is the right way to get more drivers.

The US example proves it is just the reverse. At the Regional and National events many, many classes are run, and they get hundreds of drivers to each event. Take a look at full-size racing, and you find the same thing - hundreds of Club events for dozens of different classes. The Clubs I attend do the same thing - lots of different classes - and they are all getting good attendances. A single class meeting is not getting the drivers, multi-class meetings are.

And the Nitro argument - more tosh! 1/8th has Rallycross, Truggies, Muggies and all sorts of RTR cars. 10th TC has rubber classes, foam classes, and even RTR classes. They seem to be getting bigger by offering more classes, not less. 10th Off-Road has 2WD, 4WD, F3/4, Veterans and Regional events - all different classes based on a single set of rules.

It might dilute one class, but it increases the overall number of drivers in the hobby - or are you just a closet elitist anyway??!!
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:33 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Why is everyone claiming that brushless is more efficient blah blah blah... Yes the principle of a brushless motor is more efficient than a brushed. HOWEVER, it vastly depends on the design and also on the efficiency of the controler !

I mean, look at the actual brushless speedos, they all require massive heat sinks and/or fans to cool them down. Isn't THIS a proof of bad efficiency ? Energy is mostly lost in HEAT. Also the motors get as hot as brushed motors, their actual design is far from efficient. Have also heard from a top driver that the actual brushless motors were very inefficient at top speed. Not to mention the fact that we have to get as low as 3.5T, and the lower the wind, the lower the efficiency in both the motor and speedo.
Not sure I understand this argument.

All DC motors have to be switched. Brushed do it with a rotating commutator, so the heat is in the motor as this is very inefficient compared to solid-state switching in a speedo. Hence so many people putting fans on their motors in recent times.

Brushless switch in solid-state transistors, hence they have fans on the speedos, and not on the motors. Switching has inherent losses, so if you try to run things to the max (we're racers, it's what we do! ) then heat will be generated.

I agree that very few people can get the best from a 3.5T, and a 5.5 to 6.5T is probably all that's needed. Nonetheless, such a motor, geared as high as you dare, will always be more efficient than the equivalent brushed whatever class you run. The heat generation is an outcome of inefficiencies in the system, and having that in a solid-state speedo instead of a mechanical commutator is just another of the advantages of BL.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:00 AM   #99
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Well on the whole brushed vs. brushless all that I can say is that Bxpitbull and I raced saturday night, his HB cyclone brushless 3.5 with lipo against my TC3 brushed 8x2 with IB4200 cells. We did a speed run dragrace to see who's car would be faster. Now I must say that Bxpitbulls HB cyclone was wicked fast and was not slow!!! My Props goes out to my bestfriend Bxpitbull and our race was very close!!! But the brushed TC3 with cells took the win by only a 2 car difference. YES it was close, and it was a HELL of a run As for run time by far Bxpitbull had me beat and I had IB4200's but his runtime is about 35mins on that lipo pack and I was no where near that. I do run both brushed and brushless and I do believe that brushless with lipo is the future of R/C but Bxpitbull and I did this race to settle a debate and I wanted to show you guy's you can make serious power out of brushed set ups too. Yes there is alot of maintainance on brushed and close to none on brushless but the whole point is that brushed should get some kind of credit too. Keep in mind too that Bxpitbulls car is 50oz. brushless with lipo that's lighter than my TC3. The TC3 came in at 54oz. brushed with cells. What I am trying to say is that if you know your set up, you can maximize the power if you have brushed or brushless. I run both brushed and brushless to me it doesn't matter what I run I can make the most out of both and it's all personal preference and for the guy's who knock brushed just remember that brushed motors have been around for many years and if we didn't have brushless motors you guy's would be debating on what company makes the best brushed motors. But I do agree that brushless and lipo will take over. I hate to say that because I run both and I like brushed but it is what it is. Just something to throw out there for you guy's because some of you guy's saw Bxpitbull and I go at it on the threads a few weeks back and you guy's wanted to know the out come of our race... Take Care Guy's...
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:35 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
More tosh!

Take a look at any Club in the USA and what do you find - why lots of different classes run on the same night and regular attendances we can only dream of! When will the little Englanders realise that the more classes you run, the more drivers you get. Just because the BRCA want to run Nationals for only one class does not mean this is the right way to get more drivers.

The US example proves it is just the reverse. At the Regional and National events many, many classes are run, and they get hundreds of drivers to each event. Take a look at full-size racing, and you find the same thing - hundreds of Club events for dozens of different classes. The Clubs I attend do the same thing - lots of different classes - and they are all getting good attendances. A single class meeting is not getting the drivers, multi-class meetings are.

And the Nitro argument - more tosh! 1/8th has Rallycross, Truggies, Muggies and all sorts of RTR cars. 10th TC has rubber classes, foam classes, and even RTR classes. They seem to be getting bigger by offering more classes, not less. 10th Off-Road has 2WD, 4WD, F3/4, Veterans and Regional events - all different classes based on a single set of rules.

It might dilute one class, but it increases the overall number of drivers in the hobby - or are you just a closet elitist anyway??!!
if the USA racing scene has it sorted

(this is going to hurt )
how many USA guy's in the top 10 @Reedy race

on a side note slowerone
the UK racing scene is tightly governed by rules set by the BRCA gang ,thus loads & loads of club's won't divert from set ruling's for set class's
thus every thing takes for ever to get any thing sorted
BRCA say club's can run what ever they want ,but the club's run what the BRCA say
the loser's in this crappy story ........racers mainly mid to low end are the ones that are losing out

i reckon this year & possibly next season will be make or break for loads of racers to even bother getting up in the morning to race there 1/10th TC's coz it just pant's at the Mo!!!

the moral is very low at the mo


PS......
just thinking out loud and passing on thought's
sorry
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:44 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by trjracing
Well on the whole brushed vs. brushless all that I can say is that Bxpitbull and I raced saturday night, his HB cyclone brushless 3.5 with lipo against my TC3 brushed 8x2 with IB4200 cells. We did a speed run dragrace to see who's car would be faster. Now I must say that Bxpitbulls HB cyclone was wicked fast and was not slow!!! My Props goes out to my bestfriend Bxpitbull and our race was very close!!! But the brushed TC3 with cells took the win by only a 2 car difference. YES it was close, and it was a HELL of a run As for run time by far Bxpitbull had me beat and I had IB4200's but his runtime is about 35mins on that lipo pack and I was no where near that. I do run both brushed and brushless and I do believe that brushless with lipo is the future of R/C but Bxpitbull and I did this race to settle a debate and I wanted to show you guy's you can make serious power out of brushed set ups too. Yes there is alot of maintainance on brushed and close to none on brushless but the whole point is that brushed should get some kind of credit too. Keep in mind too that Bxpitbulls car is 50oz. brushless with lipo that's lighter than my TC3. The TC3 came in at 54oz. brushed with cells. What I am trying to say is that if you know your set up, you can maximize the power if you have brushed or brushless. I run both brushed and brushless to me it doesn't matter what I run I can make the most out of both and it's all personal preference and for the guy's who knock brushed just remember that brushed motors have been around for many years and if we didn't have brushless motors you guy's would be debating on what company makes the best brushed motors. But I do agree that brushless and lipo will take over. I hate to say that because I run both and I like brushed but it is what it is. Just something to throw out there for you guy's because some of you guy's saw Bxpitbull and I go at it on the threads a few weeks back and you guy's wanted to know the out come of our race... Take Care Guy's...
Damn brushed electric motors.
Good job. I'm glad to hear you guys did the run. I was wondering if you guys did it tor not?
Nice try Pitbully.
Better luck next time.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:46 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Damn electrics.
Good job. I'm glad to hear you guys did the run. I was wondering if you guys did it tor not?
Nice try Pitbully.
Better luck next time.
It was a hell of a run my Props go out to Bxpitbull and his car,BX's HB Cyclone ran HARD!!!
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:09 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
if the USA racing scene has it sorted

(this is going to hurt )
how many USA guy's in the top 10 @Reedy race
For the first time in almost 20 years of the Reedy Race, there is no American in the top 10. So for the last 19 years there has been - some advert for their 'many classes' system IMHO! It has taken the Europeans 20 years to do well enough to get enough invitations to have ten drivers at the Reedy Race!! Come on, get real!!

The UK problem isn't the BRCA, it is those who don't understand that having people racing is more important than what they race. Good Clubs should (and do) welcome anyone who wants to race, whatever they race. Little Englanders adopt the 'BRCA-or-nothing' attitude - and that has nothing to do with the BRCA.

Stop blaming everyone else, please. It is in our hands to get more people in, not the BRCA's. Stop telling everyone how one class is dying, how there is only one future, etc. Start giving people plain ordinary help, and welcoming them into RC whatever they race.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #104
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Now, dont go jumping on your knees just yet. Yes, he had me beat off the line by two (I feathered because I broke my diff screw and had a one way in the front; bad move), but what he left out (albeit conveniently ) is that he crashed into me long before we got to the finish line. I actually landed on my wheels and could've continued rendering me "the winner", but oh well. Now, we have had similar instances where we have collided off the line and the race was pretty much null and void. I wanted to take those "victories", but he told me that would be cheesing (I agree on that). Now, because of this, I will destroy him.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:39 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Now, dont go jumping on your knees just yet. Yes, he had me beat off the line by two (I feathered because I broke my diff screw and had a one way in the front; bad move), but what he left out (albeit conveniently ) is that he crashed into me long before we got to the finish line. I actually landed on my wheels and could've continued rendering me "the winner", but oh well. Now, we have had similar instances where we have collided off the line and the race was pretty much null and void. I wanted to take those "victories", but he told me that would be cheesing (I agree on that). Now, because of this, I will destroy him.
Well if you feel that way fine I was still ahead reguardless my cvd broke which caused my car to pull right and I got T-boned by you on the top end. As for your diff screw don't feel bad I broke my cvd broke for no reason and when I hit the curb all the way on the top end I broke my steering servo. If you feel you could of beat me we could just do it again I don't want you to feel like that. I fixed my car and I'm willing to go at it again if you feel that way I will be fair, I'm just going by the call that was made by the person that saw what happened and called the race. And looking at my wife's vid clip on the cell phone, I was ahead when my car pulled right and got T-boned by you, I wouldn't want you to feel that it wasn't a fair run, let's do it again, I was able to gauge the cars anyway the results will be the same... I was still out front the whole time.
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