Novak SS13.5 B/L gearing question, for T2
 

I'm new to Onroad and need some assistance. I was running my brand new T2R on our local carpet track today and fried my Novak brushless SS13.5 motor. I ran it through several packs yesterday, and it ran cool the whole time. Today, burned up on the second pack. Car is T2R, running on 26mm foams, LRP Sphere Competition Speedo, 24/84 gearing. The shop had a 13.5 so I replaced it, and dropped the pinion to a 22, and put an integy fan on the motor. The new motor is still running, but seemed to be running too hot still for only running for 7 minutes. I kept a close eye on it and it temped at 177 after 5 minutes, not bad, but it was hotter at times. Now, I know gearing depends on more things I can list, but I was hoping I could get some recommendations and/or info on what you guys are running for gearing with the Novak SS13.5 brushless motor in your T2. Thanks in advance for the help, this is my first venture in onroad after 18 years of Nitro offroad, and so far I'm loving it.

don't have a T2 so not sure what that gearing final ratio is, in my YOkOMO i run a final of 5.4, the bigger the spur the better, i don't run a fan on the speedo, the motor temp is 125-130 degrees, also no fan on motor,

Two of us at our track have burned up 4300's. We were both running shpere's. Try another speedo if it happens again? I'm running the GTB, and hav'nt had trouble sense.
Gear it to 120 to 140 but 130 is better.
I assume 26mm is the width of the tire mm in hieghth would help on gearing, and size of track. At our indoor medium size track 32mm roll out is about perfect. But every track is a little different.

Put a slintered Rotor in the 13.5 . Don't know about burning up a motor I've still got my orginal.I did have a fan on the motor but since it cool out side I've removed it.when summers comes around again I'll put the fan back on.

I have the sintered rotor to, dang thing is a miracle at keeping temps down.

Is your car bound up somewhere? I am rolling out between 30-40 and have no problems with heat. Check your car and your setup sounds like you need to be free'ed up more.

Depending on the diameter of your tires you are running between 29 and 32 mm roll out. You should be running closer to 38 mm. That would put you between a 28 and 30 tooth pinion. I run between 38 and 39 mm roll out but I'm going to test even higher.

I second the sintered rotor recommendation. If you go that route, get the smallest spur you can find and the largest set of pinions, because you have to gear that thing to unbelievable levels before it's fast.

Thanks for the info. Just for the heck of it, you guys mind listing what pinion and spur you run at your track, if you're running the 13.5? I'm bummed to hear the bad news about the Sphere. I waited 5 weeks to get the thing. I thought it would be a wise choice since t's the Sphere Competition and has a sticker on the box that says all new 2007 edition, blah blah, so I hope thats not it. But I'm considering 1/12 scale now too, and thats a good enough excuse to pick up a GTB to try.

could you ellaborate on "unbelievable levels" :lol:

I just got mine, I threw around 32mm on it and it looks slow as fart on the car stand when applying full throttle :( never run it on the track but I would be surprised if it was fast with that gearing...

On my BMI Cyclone I am running a 88t spur with 48t pinion and 57mm tires rolling out at about 40. If you havent already go to gearchart.com and print up a few roll out charts you need to be between 38 and 40 to be fast. Clean driving helps also, nice and smooth.

On my local track the guys running Stocks (CO27) run at 19/84 so I put the SS13.5 at the same 19/84 (was running an FK05 which gears identical to a T2) and was every bit as quick, motor came off at 135 degrees which was fine considering it was around 110 that day.

Not sure on what track you run, but if I geared at 24/84 that'd be suicide! I'd be surprised if I didn't kill it with that gearing!

Be careful the sintered rotor will hide over gearing by the ability to keep the temp down. If the threashhold of a motor is 30mm roll out, then thats it.
Its the same as putting a fan on in a sensce. It will still be over geared.
Has any one had a heads up race geared both ways? The bad thing with slower motors is the urge to over gear.
Heres the trick to over gearing a motor, its unbelievable batteries.
If your sintered rotor is fine you could be hurting the stater.

So what is the threshold for the 13.5? I mean the car just seems to get better the more gear you throw at it.

I'm running 104 tooth spur with a 38 tooth pinion and 58 mm tires. That just over 39 mm roll out. Usually come of the track in the 130 degree range with the sintered rotor.

jeremy I dont run the 13.5, really only ran one 2 rounds thats why I was wondering if any one had ran them side by side.
At our track we would exsperiment both ways side by side. But for some reason we dont do that any more we just race. So I was wondering if any one had. But A 40mm roll out?
That has got to be one big track I would think. I know guys are talking the same at our track but I;ve been running 4300 and dont need that much gear. It sounds to me it would be better to just bump up to a 4300?
Dont let this post be taken as a loud tone. Its not. The Most I can do with a 4300 is 32mm rollout. Medium track carpet foam.

I gear mine at a 4.7-4.8 FDR as do most of the people at our track. (Indoor carpet)

I heard rumors that Charlie Novak was down near 3.9 at the novak!

Slamman: Whats your battery doing? Is it fadeing? And is the lap times VS battery saying Gear up? I mean are you starting at a 10.0 and ending at a 10.0. I can remember pics of your track from a previuos thread.

Good info, keep it coming, and thanks again. This is exactly what I was looking for.

I tell ya experience is the best teacher. I may have to buy one and try it. I figured XMS racing post and its 40+. I wonder how big the track was?

Its not that big... wish I could give you some demensions but I'd just be guessing and it probably wouldn't be close.

Its not a tiny techniclal track... I'd consider it a medium size track.

XMS is right... at Trackside we run 4.6 - 4.8 FDR with rubber tires. I also ran 4.8 FDR tonight at a much smaller track with no problems... motor temped at 145 (with the sintered rotor)

Thanks thats a what we are running on. (med).
I may have to get back to this thread with some on the job training. :tire: :tire: :tire: :tire:

I would say that I am running on a med size track also. You can see a pic of the track here www.glennshobbycorner.com just look down the right side and click on tracks.(ya we need new carpet). As far as running them side by side no we haven't but I can say that lap times are consistantly better with more gear.

Nice track. See now I would guess 30mm or 31mm on a track like that.
I would gear the motor till it wound up about three quarters of the way down the longest straight. At 40mm we're talking approxamitly 8 teeth taller than a brushed stock motor. Dang thats a lot.

That track looks similar to ours but with room for a couple more turns in the infield and a longer back straight. Just try the tall roll out at 38-40 mm.

I just started running a 13.5 and am at around 36.5 for rollout right now and the power is good. Medium carpet track with foams in an RDX.....You definately need to throw gear at this motor. On the same note, I am rolling out my 4300 at 28.5 and it hangs with Komodo's all day long with the stock bonded rotor. Also using the 2007 versions of the Sphere Comp...Make sure you set the battery mode to Comp NIMH if you are not running Lipo's....

Yup, I was running a 4.6 FDR in mine at the Novak race, & it was actually Bob Novak that told me he was running a 3.9....that being said though, it'd gonna depend greatly on how your local track's set up, at mine(in Oklahoma), we're now allowing the 13.5 to be used in stock(after much debate, but only allowing it with the original rotor, no sintered ones), & here I've found that motor temps can be MUCH more a problem(shorter, sometimes tighter track here, not as flowing as Trackside). I started practice yesterday with a 5.6 FDR in Stock Rubber & it thermaled on me(& that's with the GTB, not the Sphere), but going further down to a 5.8 seemed to be enough to prevent the shutdown(but it's still pushing it a little, gets pretty warm after a race). And fullsyzz mentioned hius motor reaching 177 degrees, that's VERY bad with the original rotor, Bob & Charlie told me at the Novak race that above 170 degrees the original rotor's magnets can take SERIOUS damage(to their magnetic field), which is why the GTB will try to shut the motor down before that(but counting on a thermal shutdown to prevent damage is not smart, better to prevent those temps in the first place)..... :cool:

Heres a pic of the track, well 75% of it anyway, unfortunately you cant see the last 20ft of the straight and a big sweeper. Haven't got to test yet anymore, but I will get this licked one way or the other. At least Novak will replace it for $40, so worst case I spend $40 a couple times learning to gear :weird:

http://www.morrisdesigncompany.com/f...;id=1606;image

Ahhh, yeah, looks close in size to my local track, maybe you should try gearing a bit more conservatively & see if that helps.... :cool:

We run a small technical track about 40'x60'. I gear my 13.5 at 108/39 (foam tires at 58mm) with the sintered rotor. The problem is even the 13.5 varies in gearing from motor to motor. A friend of mine is geared 84/29, my dad runs his at 104/36. Get the sintered rotor and gear it to the moon. The people who complain about it being to fast haven't run a well tuned co27.

Once again forgive my ignorance, but can you elaborate a tad on what more conservative means? Does that mean try running a smaller pinion? BTW, thanks for the help again. When I was having overheating issues at the track one of the guys recommended I get on this forum. He said you guys have the answers. So far I'm very impressed, and glad I found you guys.

Well, I was originally gonna reccomend the gearing I ran over the weekend, but I don't know if the rollout would be anywhere near what you've tried(I run rubber tires, never felt that comfortable running foams on a TC), but if this helps, the rubber tires I run are 63mm dia., & I was running a 5.8 final drive ratio(so you might be able to get a rollout from that, & maybe that'll give you a starting point)..... :cool:

Ok, so if I was running 22/84, and you say gear more conservatively, does that mean running smaller than a 22t pinion or bigger than 22t? From what it sounds, I'm right in the middle of where I should be. Some seem to think a 19/84 is a good starting point, others are saying 29/84.

Also, you guys that are running 36/104, or close to it, what brand of gears are you running like that, that will fit the T2? Does that mean I gotta go to 64 pitch?

Rubber tire..13.5 with sintered arm..
 

gearing for rubber tire on a small high traction track 4.0 FDR @ so cal raceway , let her ripp..

So does gearing more conservatively mean smaller pinion or larger pinion???

smaller

About the only gears that work are the www.precisionracingsystems.com Pro-Lite Touring gears. Have you calculated your gearing at www.gearchart.com yet? If you're running 22/84 with 58mm tires that's a 28mm roll out and way low for this motor. You can try going more conservative but in my opinion that's the opposite direction you should go. At least borrow a pinion around 28-30 teeth and see how it feels. That will put you closer to a 36-38mm roll out. Good luck.

With 57-58mm tires I was geared at 116/35 on mine tonight. I came off at 150 degrees. The car felt great. That was with the stock rotor not the sintered one.

Right, & using that formula, my rollout would be something like 33.9mm, that's what I'd consider a starting point.... :cool: