which BL system the best?
 

novak
lrp
mamba

which one is durable? is mamba with sensor? what is the sensor for?
thanks

The mamba is sensorless

The best brushless systems in the world are Lehner then hacker, but these are sensorless so there not ideal for tc or 12, the ones you mentioned are pretty much the same so its down to your manufacturer preference.

whats the problem of sensorless?
thanks

No. "problem".. just different.


If you want to race, then you will need to go with a sensored motor. Why?
Because racing is governed by several organisations that require certain design specific in both car, battery, motor etc. to keep the racing comparible.

The sensorless systems are king when it comes to outright power. The most powerful systems out there are all sensorless. However, there is a price to pay in terms of the throttle response.

Car racing requires very fine motor response, and the sensorless systems do lag behind the sensored system a little in this regard. They're close, not not close enough.

That said - any top levelmotor from LRP, Novak, GM, NOsram etc will be more than enough for most people.

Both the LRP and Novak have good reports.. (As well as bad)..

I personally use the Novak GTB and haven't had a problem so far.
I've also owne the 5800ss, and the 5.5R motor and didn't have problems with those either.
(Currently run the GTB and 4.5R)

Hope that helps..

The GM brushless works really well and is king when it comes to racing it's power output is unbeaten under the legal systems.

I testet both sensored and sensorless. There wasn't much difference. Works both really well.

I currently use either 3,5T Motor during practice (with the "bad" batteries) and 4,5T at races with the IB World Champion packs.

I run a GTB with a 4300 with no trouble. I'm geared to the safe side. Gearing is what makes or breaks any of these setups. I believe their all good products.

Novak GTB hands bown! :nod:

try using IB World Champion cells ... then you know what's really going on :lol:

our local track just ran a 24 hour enduro, novak, tekin and hacker brushless motors were used, none failed. there was one tekin, one hacker, and serveral novaks, the couple of cars that didn't run brushless, some switched to the novaks, (thanks novak for the support) the tekin was/is senorless. none of the drivers (eight per team) reported a lag or anything like that with the tekin.
personally i use the lrp comp speedo with a novak brushless, size does matter, the gtb just takes up to much room in my yok bx.

I think the best actual system for racing is the GM/orion!! The advantage over others is that you can change parameters with a computer so it's very adjustable on each track.
The only problem is just that is hard to find.

GTB/4.5 hands down!
 

Having started with a Neo One 3 star/Sphere and that ESC frying on me within a week, I opted for the GTB/4.5. Difference was night and day. I did run the 3 star on the GTB b4 installing the 4.5, totally BETA. Motor ran nice, but when I installed the 4.5, it was off to the races! I have seen the Mamba and it is sick, but clearly for bashers/balls out runs. The footprint of the GTB is a bigfoot compared to the Sphere. And whatever you do, if you get the GTB, make sure you run a cap, and keep the ESC and receiver mounted as far away as possible.

is there any info and details of gm bl sys?
thanks

I have owned the Novak SS5800 with the SS Upgrade Kit (makes equivalent to the SS5800+), the Novak GTB with 5.5R, and the Mamba Max 5700. This is just my opinion, but I prefer my Mamba Max over the Novaks. Make part of your decision based upon where you're going to race because as many mentioned above the sensorless systems like the Mamba, Lehner, & Hacker systems are not ROAR legal. I will tell you that from my experience from all three of these systems, that I am very impressed with the smoothness and throttle response of the Mamba. Plus, the flexibility you have in terms of the programming and the lack of "planned obsolesence" on Castle Creations behalf. The other benefit of the Mamba is that I haven't gotten it to thermal, yet. The Novaks would thermal every so often even when staying within their recommended gear ratios. Another advantage of the Mamba is the pricing. I don't think you will find any of these other setups cheaper than the Mamba and keep in mind that they also offer awesome customer service. I've also tested out my friend's LRP Sphere with the Reedy Neo motor and I must say this had a throttle response and smoothness very similar to the Mamba. The only problem with the LRP is if you plan to use reverse, reverse doesn't work too well on the LRP as there isn't much of a delay between braking and reverse. I know this sounds pretty biased towards the Mamba, but this is from my experiences with these four systems.

Check here for a picture of the GM system and some comments:

http://kentech.blogs.se/2006/10/15/m...kedown~1224085

Controller:
http://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/serv...11&language=en

Motors:
http://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AA?wgr=853

More here: http://www.gm-racing.de/webnews/incl...hiv.php?id=154

As mentioned earlier in this thread the Genius 95 controller is extremely adjustable. Check attached pic for table of adjustment parameters...

Personally there is becomming less and less difference between the systems. Castle is still getting information back through the power wires and making some decisions based on this from what I have read. So are these realy sensorless? Castle is supposed to be working on software that will run the current roar legal motors. Maybe soon. Sensorless is not against roar rules it is the wind of the motor that is the problem. So if castle gets software that will work with the novak or ready motors you are roar legal. Otherwise someone will have to make a roar legal sensorless motor.

You will like any of them. I have a novak and lrp. They both work great. The sensor wire and connector itself is well basically crappy in my mind. If you are not doing serious roar races I would run the mamba. It looks good. It can handle more cells and I think they basically over engineered it so they will have less issues..

Isn't this a better choice ?

http://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AI?ARTN=2894

GM-Genius 80 brushless + brushed

Product information
World Champion software. The software is based largely on that of the GM SX12 controller, which won the World Championships in 2004. The integral micro-controller automatically detects the connected motor type from the motor wiring arrangement. Brushless motor. Brushed motor for models with reverse function (2/3 continuous load capacity, max. 9.6 V operating voltage). Brushed motor for models without reverse function (double continuous current capacity). Start-up protection function if stick is in wrong position when switched on. The controller is not armed until the stick is moved to the »motor off« or »brake« position. Ultra-simple controller set-up using four basic modes: 1.) Electric-powered model aircraft, all models (forward with EMF brake); factory default.
2.) All models without brake and without reverse function (power model aircraft, model boats).
3.) Model helicopters with speed regulation (governor mode).
4.) Models with brake and reverse function (model cars and boats).
Li-Po / Li-Io capable in basic modes 1 - 3; only for two cells in mode 4. The controller automatically detects the voltage of the drive battery in modes 1 - 3 when the battery is connected, and reduces power automatically when battery voltage falls below the permissible level (5/8 of initial voltage), in order to avoid deep-discharging the Li-Po / Li-Io cells. Basic requirement: a properly balanced battery pack, i.e. all cells must have the same capacity. Automatic detection when using motors with Hall sensors: when the drive battery is connected, the micro-controller checks whether Hall sensors are present and connected. If this is the case, the controller carries out a self-calibration process the first timethe motor is accelerated, so that the Hall sensors are used to provide optimum start-up. At higher rotational speeds the Hall sensors are by-passed, as this allows better timing and improved efficiency. Optimum regulatory and start-up characteristics, even with sensorless brushless motors. This makes it possible to use a vast range of motors in model cars.

At this point, none of us can really say which system is really the "best" as there aren't any hard facts and testing to prove it. I will have to agree that there are many good choices to choose from and whichever one fits your needs & budget is the one you should buy. I'm just glad that we as the consumers have a much broader range to choose from as I think brushless systems are the future standard of R/C. The more choices we have, the more likely the prices are to drop.

Hi all,

I looking for the manual of Genius 95 and 80.... anyone know when I can found it?

thanks

Sampaio

Look Here. Just click on the product. It should be there.

http://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AA?wgr=555

I'd prever the Genius 95 over the Genius 80.

The G80 can cause problems when running the 4,5T Motor with IB Cells.

The G95 is specialy designed to be used with these cells.

Chris: thanks....

All, more one question anybody knows the internal resistence of Geniu 95.... In the manual I found a value of 0.001 to GM-80.... but for GM-95 isn't described......

I'm try to make a parallel between GM-95, Sphere Competition and GTB.... beucause in my track I verified the direference between distinct ESCs and motor, I mean, some ESCs are better than other when using a specific motor.....

Currently I'm running Stock class but, I the next year I'll begin to run mod.... so my idea is to use the same ESC in both categories....

[]s

Sampaio

I can't help you with this but I'll give you something to think about ...

Orion chose to copy the GM Brushless ... I guess they tested nearly everything available out there ... so GM may work really well ;-)

This is the point, I'm thinking about buy a GM-95 or wait for I don't know how long time to buy the Orion......

as it is both GM .. who cares :lol:

I have been testing the Mamba Max and 4600 motor.
My personal feelings on it are this.
Smoother throttle respounce is needed if you are just a stock or 19T guy like myself. It reacts much like a MOD motor does, smoothness counts.

If you already have a laptop then I would recommend this ESC it is so easy to tune. I was at the track and the guys I was running with said that the settings I had set were making the motor too fast for 19T so I fired up the laptop and made a quick adjustment, bingo right there. I have used the GTB, great ESC needs air though to keep it happy. I thought that the GTB had great and pretty easy to figure out settings. But once I have tried the Mamba ESC I am sold.
PLus it can do brushed motors as well.
Like someone posted about before they are working at upgrading the software to be able to use Sensored Motors as well. THat is the greatest feature to me, You can upgrade the software as Castle brings it out.

-Shookie <><

anybody knows a web store that sales than? Important: in english........... because I'll pay by paypall and I need the ESC and the setup software also.....

I'm looking for a especific topic about them, but not found yet, if anybody knows ones...... please tell me.....


About the Mamba Max, this is not an option for me, because of our local rules.... only sensored motors are alowed...... :(

rgds

[]s

Sampaio

@sampaio: You can get the setup-software for free:
http://www.gm-racing.de/rwdownload/index.php?dl=109

I think the term "system" will be short lived when it comes to brushless. Many companies, including Orion, are releasing motors that work with most brand ESC. So you will end up buying your favorite ESC and favorite motor just like is done with brushed equipment.

For instance, the Orion BL motor works incredibly well with the Novak GTB.

But you get problems when trying a GM motor with a LRP ESC :lol:

@Martin: sorry, that's definitely false...
Ask Hupo, who uses the Orion (GM) motor with our speedo and this is his prefered choice. :)

And I have tried it as well.

Oh, Rick with blue speedo... kind of like that idea. :)

Now I just need one for a 3.5.

You wil get problems useing LRP!!!! just look at the speedo R Volker did use in the german nationals and the one you can buy?

Reto will probably say that it was a prototype speedo :weird:

what most of the LRP drivers use you can't buy in the shops, and if you can I will like to buy the same speedo that is in R Volkers car :nod:

@HappyHippo: Soon you'll be able! And "yes", it was a prototype...

@Rick: not a problem with the coming "TC Spec" version! :)

Reto, can a updated sphere comp. (by you) handle those 3.5t GM motors?


Thanks,
With kind regards,
Hugo van den Berg

Anyone who wants to look at LRP's new range of brushless motors and speedo's go to there web site and download the 2007 cataglogue from the download page they seem to have covered pretty much everything!

Hi Bar,

is it possible to you put the link here (I can't found the 2007 catalogue)?

cheers

Sampaio

I don't know I never read the rules theres no direct link so you have to go to lrp-electronic.de, go to DOWNLOADS then KATALOGUES/PRICE LIST, CATALOGUES then at the top it says LRP 2007 catalogue yeah