4 cell mod tourer
10-09-2006, 03:49 PM
#46
Tech Apprentice
Jolly,
You should know, rechargeables are not normally used in touches,
there mainly used for power tools
You should know, rechargeables are not normally used in touches,
there mainly used for power tools
10-09-2006, 05:38 PM
#48
Tech Master
ray great post!
i live in florida..and love oval racing...i watched the worlds best oval track die a nasty death! why..because the technology was making the cars way to fast for any new racer and the cost to stay up front was getting way out of control. i left oval racing because i could not afford to run fast anymore.
touring car tires are a huge expense when you run with a fast crowd.
most new racers find the cars even in stock are way too fast for them.
motors are taking a huge hit because of the low IR and high voltage from the new IB cells...
i agree that there needs to be a open 6 cell mod class..it's fun to watch..but honestly i think there is maybe 30 guys who can wheel a open mod car today.look at the results,the same guys run up front at every race.
with the ib 4200 cells the time is now for a 4 cell mod class and a 4 cell 19 turn class.
what is more fun:
1) going 200 mph finishing 3 laps down to the pro or...
2) running an entire 4 minute race door to door with 9 other cars?
i enjoy good close racing...
i remember when bill elliot was running 30 mph faster than anyone else at talladega and it was boring TV...
now i see 35 cars all within 5 seconds of each other and 10 having a chance of winning the race on the last lap!
it's only a matter of time before tc goes the way of the 6 cell oval car....
speed kills.....it kills racing...it kills my wallet and it only benefits a few pro drivers who can wheel a shoe box. not many of us have that talent...if you did i would see your name in the winners circle at the big races.
do what mikey does...try it you will like it...
i live in florida..and love oval racing...i watched the worlds best oval track die a nasty death! why..because the technology was making the cars way to fast for any new racer and the cost to stay up front was getting way out of control. i left oval racing because i could not afford to run fast anymore.
touring car tires are a huge expense when you run with a fast crowd.
most new racers find the cars even in stock are way too fast for them.
motors are taking a huge hit because of the low IR and high voltage from the new IB cells...
i agree that there needs to be a open 6 cell mod class..it's fun to watch..but honestly i think there is maybe 30 guys who can wheel a open mod car today.look at the results,the same guys run up front at every race.
with the ib 4200 cells the time is now for a 4 cell mod class and a 4 cell 19 turn class.
what is more fun:
1) going 200 mph finishing 3 laps down to the pro or...
2) running an entire 4 minute race door to door with 9 other cars?
i enjoy good close racing...
i remember when bill elliot was running 30 mph faster than anyone else at talladega and it was boring TV...
now i see 35 cars all within 5 seconds of each other and 10 having a chance of winning the race on the last lap!
it's only a matter of time before tc goes the way of the 6 cell oval car....
speed kills.....it kills racing...it kills my wallet and it only benefits a few pro drivers who can wheel a shoe box. not many of us have that talent...if you did i would see your name in the winners circle at the big races.
do what mikey does...try it you will like it...
10-09-2006, 07:09 PM
#49
Very well said Bill and Ray!
Rick...I agree that is the way it should be, but unfortunately it can't be for the following reasons. Most people don't have the talent, the dedication, the instinct and personal control to slow down when needed. If they did then we would all be A main drivers. If the cars handle to well then please explain why we are having a huge problem on the local level with newbies spinning out everywhere, crashing their cars constantly and getting frustrated to the point of packing it in and head to the parking-lot for Friday night drag racing. I think this is also the reason the stock class is so popular (still a manageable speed).
Probably the biggest and most sad reason: Most people are use to instant gratification these days. This is the generation of combo everything (thanks McDonalds), plug-n-play, etc etc...and they just can't get that at their local track racing electric touring cars anymore. The cars are to fast, to advance and take to much time and effort.
Rick...I agree that is the way it should be, but unfortunately it can't be for the following reasons. Most people don't have the talent, the dedication, the instinct and personal control to slow down when needed. If they did then we would all be A main drivers. If the cars handle to well then please explain why we are having a huge problem on the local level with newbies spinning out everywhere, crashing their cars constantly and getting frustrated to the point of packing it in and head to the parking-lot for Friday night drag racing. I think this is also the reason the stock class is so popular (still a manageable speed).
Probably the biggest and most sad reason: Most people are use to instant gratification these days. This is the generation of combo everything (thanks McDonalds), plug-n-play, etc etc...and they just can't get that at their local track racing electric touring cars anymore. The cars are to fast, to advance and take to much time and effort.
Last edited by P-DUB; 10-09-2006 at 08:12 PM.
10-09-2006, 07:41 PM
#50
Originally Posted by P-DUB
Very well said Bill and Ray!
Rick...I agree that is the way it should be, but unfortunately it can't be for the following reasons. Most people don't have the talent, the dedication, the instinct and personal control to slow down when needed. If the cars handle to well then please explain why we are having a huge problem on the local level with newbies spinning out everywhere, crashing their cars constantly and getting frustrated to the point of packing it in and head to the parking-lot for Friday night drag racing. I think this is also the reason the stock class is so popular (still a manageable speed).
Probably the biggest and most sad reason: Most people are use to instant gratification these days. This is the generation of combo everything (thanks McDonalds), plug-n-play, etc etc...and they just can't get that at their local track racing electric touring cars anymore. The cars are to fast, to advance and take to much time and effort.
Rick...I agree that is the way it should be, but unfortunately it can't be for the following reasons. Most people don't have the talent, the dedication, the instinct and personal control to slow down when needed. If the cars handle to well then please explain why we are having a huge problem on the local level with newbies spinning out everywhere, crashing their cars constantly and getting frustrated to the point of packing it in and head to the parking-lot for Friday night drag racing. I think this is also the reason the stock class is so popular (still a manageable speed).
Probably the biggest and most sad reason: Most people are use to instant gratification these days. This is the generation of combo everything (thanks McDonalds), plug-n-play, etc etc...and they just can't get that at their local track racing electric touring cars anymore. The cars are to fast, to advance and take to much time and effort.
This is why R/C works in cycles....Some manufacture comes up with a very cool and fun car/class (tamiya/touring car). People start running this new class because it is so much fun and could be raced in any parking-lot. The class becomes very popular and more manufactures notice and then develop a new car that is slightly better then the previous car. More people join in because they can buy a little nicer car than their buddies and do well. One manufacture then decides to start attending races and putt a little extra time and effort into winning so they can sell more cars. Soon you have all the manufactures attending races spending a ridiculous amount of money to win all the while squeezing out the hobbyist. The class now gets way to expensive, competitive, and just to darn advance for the average hobbyist.
The new class in the R/C cycle is 1/8th scale buggy/truggy. We can already see the pattern starting
Touring car is now the over exposed, over saturated class and will never be as big as it once was, but we must do something to at least keep it around so it doesn't go the way of 10th pan car.
Speaking of pan car; I remember when it was at this exact stage and nothing was done. We went to the IFMAR worlds in England and the cars were so damn fast that it actually became dangerous as cars were flying off the track. I remember Masami was standing behind a 4' high steel gate when a car came flyin at his head and he ducked out of the way. There was a local guy that was a great artist and he mad a drawing of a cartoon with pan cars bouncing off the walls, ceilings, people etc etc... IFMAR held a special meeting to discuss slowing the cars down because it was out of control. 5 cell was discussed, but never happened and a year or so later 10th pan car was dead.
Touring car is yesterdays pan car
P.S. I'm not saying 4-cell is the answer, just think something needs to be done as I think the cars are to fast....
Last edited by P-DUB; 10-09-2006 at 08:10 PM.
10-09-2006, 10:51 PM
#51
Well said P-DUB. What about 5 cell. I thought that was in discusion. Anyways, its amazing how hard it is turning out to find a solution. I am on the brink of going back to 1/8th scale buggy racing myself, to join the masses. Time will tell soon as I am looking into it, and keeping an eye on this thread. I would be all for this 4 cell, or 5 cell thing. I personnally don't see anything wrong with it. If everyone is running the same thing, then everyone should were they were before.
1 run Tires are killing me.
Tire sauce is killing me.
Lack of places to race is killing me.
Lack of attendance is killing me.
1 run Tires are killing me.
Tire sauce is killing me.
Lack of places to race is killing me.
Lack of attendance is killing me.
10-09-2006, 11:12 PM
#52
I was just thinking....... 
At this last parking lot race I attended this past Sunday. The entire novice class was about 5 nitro on-road cars(most were RTR piles). They were doing donuts down the straight-away. They were flaming out. They were not having a good time. One guy was so pissed after his main, he threw his car and radio, because he was spinning out, and died on him 2 times before the race in warm-up and 3 times during the race. Way too fast. Hummmm.....
I think at least half of them won't be back. Maybe its the Hobbystores and/or lack of getting the correct recommendations as to what these people want. Maybe if they were asked or asked what they should start off with since they plan on racing and not just driving thier cars down the streets and into kurbs. Get an electric car instead and run a stock motor, something somewhat driveable. Instead, they say What the fastest car you got. Oh, ok, I'll take that one. Ok that will be $????? dollars. Then they don't know how to tune a motor, break it in, maintain the clutch, set-up the chassis.
I think this goes in-line with this subject.
What are manufactures doing about this? They are the one's that will be affected the most. No more car sales. Or does it matter to them. Maybe they don't make that much on the racing stuff.
Maybe all the RTR's are the money makers. 
At this last parking lot race I attended this past Sunday. The entire novice class was about 5 nitro on-road cars(most were RTR piles). They were doing donuts down the straight-away. They were flaming out. They were not having a good time. One guy was so pissed after his main, he threw his car and radio, because he was spinning out, and died on him 2 times before the race in warm-up and 3 times during the race. Way too fast. Hummmm..... I think at least half of them won't be back. Maybe its the Hobbystores and/or lack of getting the correct recommendations as to what these people want. Maybe if they were asked or asked what they should start off with since they plan on racing and not just driving thier cars down the streets and into kurbs. Get an electric car instead and run a stock motor, something somewhat driveable. Instead, they say What the fastest car you got. Oh, ok, I'll take that one. Ok that will be $????? dollars. Then they don't know how to tune a motor, break it in, maintain the clutch, set-up the chassis.
I think this goes in-line with this subject.
What are manufactures doing about this? They are the one's that will be affected the most. No more car sales. Or does it matter to them. Maybe they don't make that much on the racing stuff.
Maybe all the RTR's are the money makers.
10-09-2006, 11:35 PM
#53
Tech Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MOOD;; feeling good not racing ,saving shed loads of money,lovely Tan i have aswell
Posts: 4,762
shops
i can`t see how this helps shop`s
testers over here are saying they only need 1-2 mod motors for the year & 27t motor are major turn over factor they sell loads & while punters are in the shop getting them 27`s they might actually buy some thing else to go with it
this won`t happen with Mod motors ,shop might not see them so regurlary
@Skiddens UK
so UK got it sorted then to what`s happening
1) 4 cell no limit to replace`s 6 cell no limit ??
2) 4 cell no limit to replace 27t/6 cell ?? this runs along side 6 cell mod
3 )4 cell no limit to replace 6 cell 19t spec ?? runs along side 6 cell mod
which one or one i haven`t put down
testers over here are saying they only need 1-2 mod motors for the year & 27t motor are major turn over factor they sell loads & while punters are in the shop getting them 27`s they might actually buy some thing else to go with it
this won`t happen with Mod motors ,shop might not see them so regurlary
@Skiddens UK
so UK got it sorted then to what`s happening
1) 4 cell no limit to replace`s 6 cell no limit ??
2) 4 cell no limit to replace 27t/6 cell ?? this runs along side 6 cell mod
3 )4 cell no limit to replace 6 cell 19t spec ?? runs along side 6 cell mod
which one or one i haven`t put down
10-09-2006, 11:46 PM
#54
Tech Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MOOD;; feeling good not racing ,saving shed loads of money,lovely Tan i have aswell
Posts: 4,762
UK Scene
National/International 4 Cell, lower weight limit, no motor limit.
Open Class 6 Cell or Nominal voltage max of 7.4 volts
Brushed or Brushless motors. Weight limit 1500 grams min.
This would then allow Lipo.
i can see the top mod class being slow & boring if it goes 4 cell (for now till they catch up in the performance stakes),i just like watching the big boy`s go hell for leather while controlling the speedy cars
What`s is the point of 4 cell ??
slow it down
get new comers into the hobby
get more drivers in Mod class
or all three
Open Class 6 Cell or Nominal voltage max of 7.4 volts
Brushed or Brushless motors. Weight limit 1500 grams min.
This would then allow Lipo.
i can see the top mod class being slow & boring if it goes 4 cell (for now till they catch up in the performance stakes),i just like watching the big boy`s go hell for leather while controlling the speedy cars
What`s is the point of 4 cell ??
slow it down
get new comers into the hobby
get more drivers in Mod class
or all three
10-10-2006, 02:12 AM
#55
6 cell mod is not too quick!
The problem is the equipment failing, maybe the rules should be opened up so the motors can be made more reliable (better magnets), would that make a difference?
I guess what we will end up with is 4 cell international class if EFRA chooses this class.
Whatever happens i'll book in for the most popular/competative class for the nationals for next year.
The problem is the equipment failing, maybe the rules should be opened up so the motors can be made more reliable (better magnets), would that make a difference?
I guess what we will end up with is 4 cell international class if EFRA chooses this class.
Whatever happens i'll book in for the most popular/competative class for the nationals for next year.
10-10-2006, 03:29 AM
#56
Rick has it right in one sense, the cars have too much grip and that generates heat and the ability of using too hot motors. I say, ban additives and soft tyre compounds, then we'll be back to being only able to use 9T or the car will be too hard to drive and won't turn at the end of the straight.
I'd also love to see rare earth magnets be allowed in brushed motors, as they will put both types of motors on par with each other, and it'll stop heat buildup, silly windings being used, brushes will last longer, and at the end, motors won't blow anymore simply because you won't be able to use a 6T as a 13T will be the fastest thing you'll have ever driven.
4-cell as i see it, only a temporary remedy, we'll end up like rick says, using even sillier windings than now (5/4/3T) which is stupid. i'm only glad to see the BRCA has a proposal for rare earth magnets to be allowed in brushed motors.
I'd also love to see rare earth magnets be allowed in brushed motors, as they will put both types of motors on par with each other, and it'll stop heat buildup, silly windings being used, brushes will last longer, and at the end, motors won't blow anymore simply because you won't be able to use a 6T as a 13T will be the fastest thing you'll have ever driven.
4-cell as i see it, only a temporary remedy, we'll end up like rick says, using even sillier windings than now (5/4/3T) which is stupid. i'm only glad to see the BRCA has a proposal for rare earth magnets to be allowed in brushed motors.
10-10-2006, 06:30 AM
#57
There are a lot of guys all over testing 4 cell for the Japanese Mod nats next month. 7T sedans on 4 cells are running a few 1/10ths per lap faster than 19T on 6 cell. They are all saying you can't run less than a 7 turn or you will dump. The good thing is even running hard enough to dump IB4200WC cells in 5 min the comm still looks like you just broke it in. Motor are not failing, speedos are not shutting down, cars are more driveable, tire wear is less and the racing is better.
10-10-2006, 06:43 AM
#58
Originally Posted by Robfo
6 cell mod is not too quick!
The problem is the equipment failing, maybe the rules should be opened up so the motors can be made more reliable (better magnets), would that make a difference?
I guess what we will end up with is 4 cell international class if EFRA chooses this class.
Whatever happens i'll book in for the most popular/competative class for the nationals for next year.
The problem is the equipment failing, maybe the rules should be opened up so the motors can be made more reliable (better magnets), would that make a difference?
I guess what we will end up with is 4 cell international class if EFRA chooses this class.
Whatever happens i'll book in for the most popular/competative class for the nationals for next year.
I say, ban additives and soft tyre compounds, then we'll be back to being only able to use 9T or the car will be too hard to drive and won't turn at the end of the straight.
10-10-2006, 07:01 AM
#59
Originally Posted by PW
Opening the rules will make things more reliable and they will make equipment that won't fail, but be prepaired to pay double for a motor/speedo combo.
Making the cars harder to drive is not going to work. It will only make the fast guys faster and the slow guys slower. It's already tuff enough for the newbies and local club racers to get these cars around the track with the best tires/additives, now you want to take away the most important thing away (proper tires).
Making the cars harder to drive is not going to work. It will only make the fast guys faster and the slow guys slower. It's already tuff enough for the newbies and local club racers to get these cars around the track with the best tires/additives, now you want to take away the most important thing away (proper tires).
Besides, with less overall grip, the cars won't wear as much, the crashes won't be as tough, and the slow guys will KNOW that the main difference between them and the fast guys is driving, NOT equipment like most seem to think nowadays.
One last comment, this thread is for MOD tourer, newbies shouldn't do mod tourer anyway, 27T is there for them.
10-10-2006, 07:10 AM
#60
Tech Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MOOD;; feeling good not racing ,saving shed loads of money,lovely Tan i have aswell
Posts: 4,762
Tyre`s
this not the problem
Novices will breal there car even more by sliding all over the place or get Bloody frustrated about & don`t bother
if it`s to get mod class up then you need to push guy`s out of 27t & 19t into that class ,since you can`t force them to ,make the classe`s less inviting
ie;;27t & 4 cells or 19t & 4cells (just idea)
27t is suppose to be beginners class any way
19t is a problem ,there are loads of guy`s in 19t that can do Mod racing But they won`t be at the top so stay in 19t where they are in the top (selfish lot
(27t same scenerio
but any rule that come`s in must be across the board & not just a national
Novices will breal there car even more by sliding all over the place or get Bloody frustrated about & don`t bother
if it`s to get mod class up then you need to push guy`s out of 27t & 19t into that class ,since you can`t force them to ,make the classe`s less inviting
ie;;27t & 4 cells or 19t & 4cells (just idea)
27t is suppose to be beginners class any way
19t is a problem ,there are loads of guy`s in 19t that can do Mod racing But they won`t be at the top so stay in 19t where they are in the top (selfish lot
(27t same scenerio but any rule that come`s in must be across the board & not just a national