Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
10-11-2006, 11:07 PM
#271
Tech Regular
There is no need to top off lipo packs, and it is not recommended. Once it's full charged, it's ready to be used.
One of the things you might be interested is tthe Astro 109 charger is a pulse charger, meaning it pumps in electrons in large pulses and this can be kinda harsh if u ask me... It can work good for charging when the pack is drained, but when i have to charge a pack that is 80 or 90 % full, I will use other chargers instead, just for a peace of mind.
One of the things you might be interested is tthe Astro 109 charger is a pulse charger, meaning it pumps in electrons in large pulses and this can be kinda harsh if u ask me... It can work good for charging when the pack is drained, but when i have to charge a pack that is 80 or 90 % full, I will use other chargers instead, just for a peace of mind.
10-12-2006, 07:50 AM
#272
The Lipo pack was not fully charged. That's why I topped it off. By topping off, I mean the slow charge rate the chargers revert to after 80-90% charge is achieved. I am aware that the Astroflight charger is a pulse charger. I have described it on a previous thread. From the way the lights work on the FMA charger it may be a pulse charger as well, but this is not detailed in its manual.
This is in reference to my recent LiPo fire on the previous page.
This is in reference to my recent LiPo fire on the previous page.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-12-2006 at 08:13 AM.
10-12-2006, 09:09 AM
#273
Recommendations
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
The Lipo pack was not fully charged. That's why I topped it off. By topping off, I mean the slow charge rate the chargers revert to after 80-90% charge is achieved. I am aware that the Astroflight charger is a pulse charger. I have described it on a previous thread. From the way the lights work on the FMA charger it may be a pulse charger as well, but this is not detailed in its manual.
This is in reference to my recent LiPo fire on the previous page.
This is in reference to my recent LiPo fire on the previous page.
10-12-2006, 11:05 AM
#274
I don't think that you guys get the point. A battery that was advertized to be of a safer chemistry. A battery that is advertized will not catch fire, Catches Fire. If I had transported the distended pack or thrown it in the trash at the track there could have been a serious car fire or structure fire. Both Dell and Compaq have learned their lesson probably through law suits and are recalling all of their Lithium Ion Batterries because they will catch fire under the right conditions and burn the computer and the house up. The problem is that they are a battery type that can catch fire. A trinity driver had the front of his Honda Civic burn up from a Lipo fire with an unnattended battery. We never found out if it was one of the safer types. I suspect that it was.
When you report that a battery keeps its numbers, well then, I would actually like to see the numbers. How about a test when the battery was new and a test when the battery has about 30 cycles. These number need to be obtained preferably with a dicharged device at 20 or 35 amperes like a Turbo 35 will deliver.
The batteries from Max-Amps are likely to be the same chemistry as one of the types that catches fire. There is nothing on their Web site to lead me to another conclusion.
Don't think that because your charger is of a different brand, an incident like this cannot happen to you.
I apologise for using the words top off. This was incorrect. What I did is complete the charge.
I have resisted getting the Orion packs because: 1 their mod motors perform so poorly on a durabilty basis, (they are designed more for cosmetics than function), 2 I don't like the Orion connectors which sometimes (years of racing experience here) become unplugged in a crash or even a bad bump on our current track after some use. Now there is a softsided pack available which will allow use of my connectors and will fit my car without modification, so I am ready to try it.
Now I will go chill.
When you report that a battery keeps its numbers, well then, I would actually like to see the numbers. How about a test when the battery was new and a test when the battery has about 30 cycles. These number need to be obtained preferably with a dicharged device at 20 or 35 amperes like a Turbo 35 will deliver.
The batteries from Max-Amps are likely to be the same chemistry as one of the types that catches fire. There is nothing on their Web site to lead me to another conclusion.
Don't think that because your charger is of a different brand, an incident like this cannot happen to you.
I apologise for using the words top off. This was incorrect. What I did is complete the charge.
I have resisted getting the Orion packs because: 1 their mod motors perform so poorly on a durabilty basis, (they are designed more for cosmetics than function), 2 I don't like the Orion connectors which sometimes (years of racing experience here) become unplugged in a crash or even a bad bump on our current track after some use. Now there is a softsided pack available which will allow use of my connectors and will fit my car without modification, so I am ready to try it.
Now I will go chill.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-12-2006 at 03:16 PM.
10-12-2006, 11:32 AM
#275
i'm behind in lipo tech.. which ones catch fire and which don't in your experience? not that i want to get into a bunch of battery talk.. i have read this thread from start to finish and as it has unfolded, but one question i have is, what is the entire list of bodies you have run on you pantoura? any traditional touring bodies before the wide conversion like a stratus or mazda 6?
10-12-2006, 12:00 PM
#276
John, from what I've seen whenever a LiPo has been charged to 90%, removed from the charger and then put back on to top off they fail.... Don't know why, could be the initial charge when it's reconnected...
10-12-2006, 03:10 PM
#277
Batteries that have caught fire on me: Scorpion LiPo which is a Lithium Cobalt Dioxide Pack. Apogee Magnum which is a Lithium Manganeese pack. Thats all that I have tried. Been using them since December 2005. Only so many you can afford to buy. The failure may or may not have been the result of my charger action.
Only tried two bodies on the narrow car. The stilletto body with added spoiler and side dams worked very well. The Protoform Lola body: I did not like as it added steering and I already had too much of that. I did not do any mods to it, but tried it high and low. I discussed it earlier in the thread. Use the seach feature of the thread. It has the link to a full size car photo of the Lola.
I do have a McAllister touring body coming for the wide car. I plan to have a wing forward and a spoiler like on the Stilletto. We'll see how it does. A wing over the axle instead of behind it seems to be very beneficial on these light cars as it does not unload the front so much. The actual LMP cars now have a huge venturi under the car which is helpful in adding downforce without unloading the front of the car.
Only tried two bodies on the narrow car. The stilletto body with added spoiler and side dams worked very well. The Protoform Lola body: I did not like as it added steering and I already had too much of that. I did not do any mods to it, but tried it high and low. I discussed it earlier in the thread. Use the seach feature of the thread. It has the link to a full size car photo of the Lola.
I do have a McAllister touring body coming for the wide car. I plan to have a wing forward and a spoiler like on the Stilletto. We'll see how it does. A wing over the axle instead of behind it seems to be very beneficial on these light cars as it does not unload the front so much. The actual LMP cars now have a huge venturi under the car which is helpful in adding downforce without unloading the front of the car.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-13-2006 at 09:55 PM.
10-12-2006, 10:01 PM
#278
I noticed that there are 6 wide pan bodies available ( 5 in stock) at Stormer now. This includes a .030 inch thick Peugeot 905 B. I would prefer this thickness at a long outdoor track. This includes the Associated Nissan body in Stock.
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...s&pn=PFM140722
The corally C10X wide pan car also shows in stock.
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...ns&pn=COR00117
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...s&pn=PFM140722
The corally C10X wide pan car also shows in stock.
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...ns&pn=COR00117
10-13-2006, 07:52 PM
#279
McAllister Wide Pan Nissan 300 Z body
I have the McAllister wide Nissan 300 Z body mounted on the home widened Pantoura. Here is a pic. This GT class apparently allows both a wing and a spoiler. This is what I wanted to try. The body must be 1 inch taller than the GTP class at 4 inches. I put new rear body mounts at the tip of the Nerf wings on the Pantoura and longer front posts. The body was a nice thickness at .020 inch. It has clear plastic overspray sheet. The window masks are not precut, but they include the nice flexible mask material that was easy to trim out with the X-acto. I ordered it by phone directly from McAllister.com, it came promply.
Track test wide pan with Peugeot 905 B body. Setup Finalized.
I ran the Wide Pan car with the Peugeot 905 GTP body today. It handled extremely well on a green track. It helped to glue on the side dams with shoo goo after I finalized the size. Not to neat this time, but handled very well. Setup with this body is complete. Major changes over the narrow car were required to increase steering. I went to Majenta fronts and sauce them completely now. I am using .020 inch front springs which are bit lighter than with the narrow car. I am using one size heavier center spring to compensate for the heavier body. 35 weight oil in the center shock.
John
I have the McAllister wide Nissan 300 Z body mounted on the home widened Pantoura. Here is a pic. This GT class apparently allows both a wing and a spoiler. This is what I wanted to try. The body must be 1 inch taller than the GTP class at 4 inches. I put new rear body mounts at the tip of the Nerf wings on the Pantoura and longer front posts. The body was a nice thickness at .020 inch. It has clear plastic overspray sheet. The window masks are not precut, but they include the nice flexible mask material that was easy to trim out with the X-acto. I ordered it by phone directly from McAllister.com, it came promply.
Track test wide pan with Peugeot 905 B body. Setup Finalized.
I ran the Wide Pan car with the Peugeot 905 GTP body today. It handled extremely well on a green track. It helped to glue on the side dams with shoo goo after I finalized the size. Not to neat this time, but handled very well. Setup with this body is complete. Major changes over the narrow car were required to increase steering. I went to Majenta fronts and sauce them completely now. I am using .020 inch front springs which are bit lighter than with the narrow car. I am using one size heavier center spring to compensate for the heavier body. 35 weight oil in the center shock.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-13-2006 at 08:25 PM.
10-14-2006, 02:57 AM
#281
Eh, LiPo fires are scary. I'm using the Orion packs, but I think I'll get a LipoSack just in case.
http://www.liposack.com/
http://www.liposack.com/
10-14-2006, 05:16 PM
#282
Thanks for the posts guys. That Lipo sack is a good idea just too expensive. I have mine stored in a small broiling pan some of the time.
Air temp high 80's, Track Clean, Treated with Sugar Water, Traction high.
McAllister 300 Nissan Z Track test.
This body performed extremely well. I believe my best lap times were .5 seconds faster than with the thin Peugeot body in the previous video. Note that a 1/8 scale would also have been faster today as the track was very clean now. I did not time my laps today. I had better forward traction. The body made the car more supple in the turns (more roll). My corner speed was actually way improved with this body. The car was extremely resistant to spins, I could drive it very hard on corner entry and exit without screwing up. It was not as blindingly fast accelerating on the short straights, but it made up for it with much more control and corner speed. Top speed was good.
I started with large spoiler and wing mounted as in the the photo in my previous post. I installed some larger side dams to the wing. The car went arrow straight on the longest straight. There was some front end lift at the highest speed near sixty mph that caused the front end to lift on a bump and a resulting endo. I decreased the wing in several stage. The side dams were not neccesary the spoiler was not neccesary. I move the wing forward and down in stages. The last run had just slight lift of the nose on the worst bumps. I will go down another .25 inch. I have not tried it without the wing yet, but I have tried this to the Stilletto body. You loose a lot of rear traction without it.
I was able to run pink front, pink rears with this body. Cornering precision and speed was just super. I can probably increase my center spring stiffness to the next level. I will definitely buy another McAllister Body. If you are just starting out with a wide pan this would be the body to put on it.
The wing is this one from Protoform (picture no longer available)
Protoform's all new molded touring car wings are state-of-the-art.
Carefully designed by world champion driver Mark Pavidis and world champion body designer Dale Epp, these wings are durable, efficient and provide the downforce needed by todays generation of lightning fast touring cars. The electric version is 187mm wide, and the nitro version is 197mm wide, with the molded spill plates fall into the regulation 20mm x 40mm size dimensions. They are designed to be ROAR, EFRA and IFMAR legal. the PROTOform wing is the perfect way to complete a winning race body.
My wing mounts are from an HPI molded wing set. ($6). I trimmed it with an X-acto to fit the angled rear glass on one of the lowering moves.
John
Air temp high 80's, Track Clean, Treated with Sugar Water, Traction high.
McAllister 300 Nissan Z Track test.
This body performed extremely well. I believe my best lap times were .5 seconds faster than with the thin Peugeot body in the previous video. Note that a 1/8 scale would also have been faster today as the track was very clean now. I did not time my laps today. I had better forward traction. The body made the car more supple in the turns (more roll). My corner speed was actually way improved with this body. The car was extremely resistant to spins, I could drive it very hard on corner entry and exit without screwing up. It was not as blindingly fast accelerating on the short straights, but it made up for it with much more control and corner speed. Top speed was good.
I started with large spoiler and wing mounted as in the the photo in my previous post. I installed some larger side dams to the wing. The car went arrow straight on the longest straight. There was some front end lift at the highest speed near sixty mph that caused the front end to lift on a bump and a resulting endo. I decreased the wing in several stage. The side dams were not neccesary the spoiler was not neccesary. I move the wing forward and down in stages. The last run had just slight lift of the nose on the worst bumps. I will go down another .25 inch. I have not tried it without the wing yet, but I have tried this to the Stilletto body. You loose a lot of rear traction without it.
I was able to run pink front, pink rears with this body. Cornering precision and speed was just super. I can probably increase my center spring stiffness to the next level. I will definitely buy another McAllister Body. If you are just starting out with a wide pan this would be the body to put on it.
The wing is this one from Protoform (picture no longer available)
Protoform's all new molded touring car wings are state-of-the-art.
Carefully designed by world champion driver Mark Pavidis and world champion body designer Dale Epp, these wings are durable, efficient and provide the downforce needed by todays generation of lightning fast touring cars. The electric version is 187mm wide, and the nitro version is 197mm wide, with the molded spill plates fall into the regulation 20mm x 40mm size dimensions. They are designed to be ROAR, EFRA and IFMAR legal. the PROTOform wing is the perfect way to complete a winning race body.
My wing mounts are from an HPI molded wing set. ($6). I trimmed it with an X-acto to fit the angled rear glass on one of the lowering moves.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-28-2007 at 08:01 PM.
10-15-2006, 10:12 AM
#283
Here is some more history on the Nissan 300 Z. It was driven by Steve Millan from New Zealand and won the GTU class at Lemans in 1990. In 1991 it gathered 7 pole positions and 5 wins. The link goes to a pic of Cunningham Racing Nissan 300 ZX. Note the rear wing and spoiler.
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/pop....117.7:13725&S=
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/pop....117.7:13725&S=
I took some cues from these photos as to body position. I have lowered the rear of the body so the wheel arch just covers the rubber on the tire. The body is extra wide to accomodate the tires this way. I have lowered the front to reduce the flatness of the nose. This may help my high speed lightness on the front end. I also added a transponder to the nose to increase the front weight just a bit.
Here is a new pic of the slammed body. Because of the high wheel arches, I have supported the nose with an extra, but very light, foam bumper on top of the standard foam bumper.
Darkside Motorsports wide (narrow) adjustable Pan now available $275.
"We have them available now. $275 for the complete kit."
http://rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=154070
http://www.darksidems.com/
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/pop....117.7:13725&S=
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/pop....117.7:13725&S=
I took some cues from these photos as to body position. I have lowered the rear of the body so the wheel arch just covers the rubber on the tire. The body is extra wide to accomodate the tires this way. I have lowered the front to reduce the flatness of the nose. This may help my high speed lightness on the front end. I also added a transponder to the nose to increase the front weight just a bit.
Here is a new pic of the slammed body. Because of the high wheel arches, I have supported the nose with an extra, but very light, foam bumper on top of the standard foam bumper.
Darkside Motorsports wide (narrow) adjustable Pan now available $275.
"We have them available now. $275 for the complete kit."
http://rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=154070
http://www.darksidems.com/
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-15-2006 at 06:51 PM.
10-15-2006, 08:09 PM
#285
Marty-Thanks
New pics and text in my previous post
My ideal 1/10 pan car for a long rough outdoor track
- Three O-ring sealed shocks with threaded shock bodies and spring retainers on the rear pod. They should be positioned to clear the Peugeot 905B body at the proper low height.
- Narrow car with an optional kit to run it wide including wings right side hub axle and rear spacers. As good as my widened narrow car runs, I would say that a narrow waist with wings at the front would be a good way to go wide. The wings could be black anodized machined Aluminum like mine or graphite plate like on the Darkforce car. I would like them to bolt on with the standard large size screws if using an Associated front end into a threaded adaptor wing if aluminum. New holes for wide mounted body posts on the nerf wings to fit the McAllister Nissan Body.
-Independent front suspension with double front A-arms that both move. Very low to fit the GTP bodies. I would like about 1/4 inch of suspension travel instead of 1/8 to help go through bumps on an outdoor track better. Front shocks are probably not necessary as the rear side shocks will dampen the front. Some describe the Associated suspension as primitive, but I consider double front A-arms, even though one is fixed, a step up from single front A-arms with only one camber link. It certainly is a lot stronger. The movement of my current front suspension would be similar to an inverted McPherson strut.
-Side to side battery adjustment feature to balance the weight on center with a heavy brushless system. About 1/2 inch of movement available to the left..
- lightening cutouts on the bottom only or only on the left side. Not all the way through so my electronics will stay glued down.
-A narrow pod seems to work fine on a wide car. I am actually using a standard pinion now that I have the car close to the right width. It is still a few millimeters too wide. Corally extended pinions are also available for more security.
-low pivots for strength.
Steel pivots and full headed screws for strength outdoors.
I am at 41.5 ounces now. Underweight for the class inspite of many add ons and the McAllister Body.
New pics and text in my previous post
My ideal 1/10 pan car for a long rough outdoor track
- Three O-ring sealed shocks with threaded shock bodies and spring retainers on the rear pod. They should be positioned to clear the Peugeot 905B body at the proper low height.
- Narrow car with an optional kit to run it wide including wings right side hub axle and rear spacers. As good as my widened narrow car runs, I would say that a narrow waist with wings at the front would be a good way to go wide. The wings could be black anodized machined Aluminum like mine or graphite plate like on the Darkforce car. I would like them to bolt on with the standard large size screws if using an Associated front end into a threaded adaptor wing if aluminum. New holes for wide mounted body posts on the nerf wings to fit the McAllister Nissan Body.
-Independent front suspension with double front A-arms that both move. Very low to fit the GTP bodies. I would like about 1/4 inch of suspension travel instead of 1/8 to help go through bumps on an outdoor track better. Front shocks are probably not necessary as the rear side shocks will dampen the front. Some describe the Associated suspension as primitive, but I consider double front A-arms, even though one is fixed, a step up from single front A-arms with only one camber link. It certainly is a lot stronger. The movement of my current front suspension would be similar to an inverted McPherson strut.
-Side to side battery adjustment feature to balance the weight on center with a heavy brushless system. About 1/2 inch of movement available to the left..
- lightening cutouts on the bottom only or only on the left side. Not all the way through so my electronics will stay glued down.
-A narrow pod seems to work fine on a wide car. I am actually using a standard pinion now that I have the car close to the right width. It is still a few millimeters too wide. Corally extended pinions are also available for more security.
-low pivots for strength.
Steel pivots and full headed screws for strength outdoors.
I am at 41.5 ounces now. Underweight for the class inspite of many add ons and the McAllister Body.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-15-2006 at 10:00 PM.