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Old 01-31-2003, 05:25 PM   #16
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Weaponx, I am not trying to start an argument or anything I allready know your stance on the whole tire thing we have gone over it on many ocasions. I email back and forth with many top level trinity drivers and I get the same feedback from all of them about the whole tire thing and I agree with them. People should run what ever they want but for me personally it is much more fun now that I am running foams. You seem to make such a big deal about the whole driver thing but to put it simply it is more fun for me to have a car that is planted all the time I can race much cleaner and still be agressive. For me it makes sense for bigger races for sure but I would like to run foam all the time if it was up to me.
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Old 01-31-2003, 05:31 PM   #17
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Amen Jesse, maybe scotty will have a permanent class
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Old 01-31-2003, 05:46 PM   #18
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That is all fine and dandy but that brings me back to my original question Why run four wheel drive. Racing is about going fast in a controllable manner, and a two wheel drive car is going to be faster than a four wheel drive car with foams, so why run four wheel drive with foams. I beleive in the second or third post someone said the can go about 2 seconds faster per lap with foams on there car, so why not increase that time a couple more seconds and run a two wheel drive car. And as far as the trinity drivers I am sure it doesnt matter to them as long as they are racing and not paying for their tires if thats the case. And your right people should run whatever they want, but that divides the racers into another couple more classes. Also when I got back into the hobby I was told that foams died out because of the cost of tires. I was told it got quite costly because of chunking them. so now we should revert back to them? Dont get me wrong I am not against foam tires I just think it is silly to use them on a four wheel drive car.
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Old 01-31-2003, 05:56 PM   #19
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Hell, all I said was that I like the foams on carpet and rubber outdoors. Damn, I really didn't think it was that serious.

As for this price issue:

Take-offs pre mounted slicks: $35-$37

Full set of 40 shore foams:$36-$42

Theres really not that big a difference these days.

Besides that, Nitro sedans are also 4wd, should people try running rubber on those too, just because their 4wd. Or should they just "switch to 2wd" too?

Man, anybody who has this big a problem about what tires other people run on their toy cars, might need a break from the "hobby".
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Old 01-31-2003, 06:07 PM   #20
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Darkseid, I beleive the first post said "electric touring is being dominated by foam tires do you think this is good or bad why or why not" I am stating my opinion good or bad why or why not. I do beleive that is why the question was asked. And nobody said that I had a problem with what other people are running for tires. And any time you want to give me your professional opinion on if I need to take a break from the hobby, please pm and we can discuss it that way assuming you are referring to me.
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Old 01-31-2003, 06:21 PM   #21
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Well, your the one bringing the tone of "run rubber or run 2wd foams" If people like foams on their TCs, whats the big deal with that. The cars are faster and easier to drive WITH foams. So why is adding something that makes your car faster reason to say people should just run 2wd? If people want to run TC and have them easier to drive, more power to them.

I don't see what the big deal with any of this is. If you want to run foams run them. If you don't avoid them like the plague. From what I have seen, there are plenty of classes out there for everyone.

So again, whats the big problem with foams?
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Old 01-31-2003, 06:23 PM   #22
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I think the main reason people are racing 4wd cars is because most of the racers like to tinker or tune the cars and with a 2wd pan car like 12th scale or 10th pan there is not much to do plus the track you race on has to be near perfect. Also the Pan cars are ugly IMO and are at times harder to set up then a 4wd touring car. So when they started to put foams on the 4wd cars they saw how much faster and easier they are to drive so they just went with it and kept all the cool "hop up" or tuning factor that goes along with the 4wd cars today. I think foams makes for cleaner racing to a point you now have guys who cant control a rubber tire car that slap foams on the car and think its will stick everywhere and thats not so the case you still have to race a line around the track and the one who does that the best and fastest will win. I like foams over rubbers b/c you dont have all the other variables that go along with rubber tires like rim stiffness and insert hardess and air gap and the size of the air hole and so on....just bolt foams up and roll with it.
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Old 01-31-2003, 09:25 PM   #23
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Kevin is right, if you can't control a rubber car, you really wont be able to control a car much better if you slap foams on. Foam TC is a bit more of an elitist group than rubber. The chunking issue; if you run foams and are chunking tires every couple runs or even every weekend then you probably should be considering if you should run foam or not. If you're the kind of person that can't get around the track without hitting something at least once per lap STAY AWAY FROM FOAM, you will chunk them. Foam will only make you significantly faster if your setup is halfway decent and you have a good line. And yes i also agree with kevin on the variables factor. No different types of rims and inserts to worry about, just foam, through and through.
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Old 02-01-2003, 06:05 AM   #24
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Weaponx, You and I have spent countless hours discussing why 1/12 and 1/10 died out. I still can't figure it out I still enjoy my 1/12 allot and that is most likely the reason I am favoring foams because my touring car feels more like a 1/12. Personally I do not think a gear reduced 2 wheel drive car would be any faster than a 4 wheel drive touring car. A pan car yes would be faster but like Kevin said they are just kinda boring. The asc. 10l3 touring car is very fast but the class never took off not even close. I thought it was a pretty neat class but in order for something to take off you have to have a promoter and no one did that with this car.
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Old 02-01-2003, 04:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin K
[B]I. . .plus the track you race on has to be near perfect.
Not really. We race quite often at a track that is nowhere near perfect - dusty from, well, dust that blows in off the fields right next to it, the surface is not very good and, well, it stinks (there's a sewage pump plant right next to it. . .) We still do very very well.

Quote:
Also the Pan cars are ugly IMO
Hey, who you callin ugly?!?!? At least my momma don't wear army boots! heh heh heh

It's a matter of style. Do you want a GTP style car or a sedan style car.

Quote:
and are at times harder to set up then a 4wd touring car.
Sorry, I beg to disagree with you here. I run Fuel and Electric 4wd sedan and Pan Car - I spend far more time setting up the sedans than on the pan car - pretty much all you have to do to a pan car is tweak it, and you only have to tweak TWO wheels rather than four on a sedan. . . Drive one and see.

[/quote]

Listen, it's a matter of friction - foam rubber is softer than non-foam rubber therefore it conforms to the shape of the surface and creates more friction - better "stick".

Any car is going to have more grip with foams. It's no secret and hasn't been.

Don't figure 1/10th as dying out. Japan still has a SEPARATE Nationals just for Pro10 (and had over 50 entries this year I believe. . .). Southern and Northern California have very live groups, many times we have more entries in Pro10 than we do in Sportsman Stock. There is a live class in Northern Florida and in the Midwest. We're not dead yet and if we'd get some support from the manufacturers to promote and the sanctioning bodies to let us race, we'd have a chance to grow back to where we once were. . .
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Old 02-01-2003, 05:07 PM   #26
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The majority of us on this thread race at one of the best carpet tracks in the states. I don't think I have seen a class of 1/10 pan cars in the last 5 years. They do look like fun but I don't even know if you can purchase a new one if you wanted to. I have not seen a wide car on a shelf in a long time.
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Old 02-01-2003, 07:32 PM   #27
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from what i see foams perform much better on carpet. i all so like the look of pan cars over sedans because they look more like a fast race car.
also i heard it isn't important to true your tires if u just run them on ashphalt and are not used for racing. is that true? could u just talk some sand paper of file to smooth it out a bit? what foams are used for lasting along time well not breaking down when running on ashpalt but not racing, i just don't want to pay alot for tires every week.
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Old 02-01-2003, 08:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by 70mph pan car
from what i see foams perform much better on carpet. i all so like the look of pan cars over sedans because they look more like a fast race car.
also i heard it isn't important to true your tires if u just run them on ashphalt and are not used for racing. is that true? could u just talk some sand paper of file to smooth it out a bit? what foams are used for lasting along time well not breaking down when running on ashpalt but not racing, i just don't want to pay alot for tires every week.
A lot of it has to do with two things - how much a car weighs and how long you want the tires to last. . .

A Pro10 car only weighs 38-40oz minimum, so we can't use a Purple (40-45 shore) tire, we just wouldn't generate any heat or friction on them (Oval is different for this, btw. . .something about only turning left. . . ) so we use Pinks and Greens (25-28 shore)

An electric sedan can use a lot harder tire (such as purple, although I think those would be about the maximum) partly because they are heavier and because of their 4wd.

A Nitro Sedan uses 45 and 40 shore tires. They weigh a whole lot more so they can do it.

Now, if an electric or nitro sedan wanted to use the softer tires, they could - but they would grind off the tire very very quickly.

Best way to find out what tires to use is to ask around your area - and if nobody's running them, experiment a bit.
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Old 02-01-2003, 08:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by KINGZJ
The majority of us on this thread race at one of the best carpet tracks in the states. I don't think I have seen a class of 1/10 pan cars in the last 5 years. They do look like fun but I don't even know if you can purchase a new one if you wanted to. I have not seen a wide car on a shelf in a long time.
The 2001 Roar champion was from Minnesota (I think. . .I would have to ask Anton). . .

Anyway, you can buy a 10L2 from Stormerhobbies or SoCalRaceway.com. AE is still making them as well as all the parts. Corally just came out with a new pan car last year (I think) which is very very good, just heavy, too heavy for stock. Yokomo is still selling theirs it's just way too expensive over here.

Bodies are still being made by Protoform, Hot Bodies, Dahms, etc.

Tires are still made by Jaco, TRC (importing Ellegi), BSR, etc.
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Old 02-02-2003, 02:06 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by KINGZJ
The majority of us on this thread race at one of the best carpet tracks in the states. I don't think I have seen a class of 1/10 pan cars in the last 5 years. They do look like fun but I don't even know if you can purchase a new one if you wanted to. I have not seen a wide car on a shelf in a long time.
The majority isn't always right, you know.

I would love to see pan car racing around here. It sounds like they are having a blast out in California. They said Oval was dead but Scotty is getting 40-60 people every week there. You never know, maybe a pan car revival is around the corner!
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