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Old 07-13-2006, 11:12 AM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
We'd probably have to run a reciever pack.

4 cells will also kill 27 turn as the spec/stock class, the cars will be brutally slow.
Which I dont think would be a bad thing. The 6 cell stock motor formula we have right now is too fast for someone brand new to go out and try to race with. It is not a very good beginner class (as evident by the amount of experienced racers that never move out of stock). The current stock class racers would most likely move to 4 cell 19turn. The 19turn guys would have an easier transition to full on mod.
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Old 07-13-2006, 11:25 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I mentioned earlier in this thread than nobody had even tested 4-cells. It HAS been tired, but until we know what the actual effects of the change are (run time, speed, lap times, motor and brush life), and if they even solve the heat problem, it is premature to make such a drastic change.
There are soooo many info about how 4cells running in real world in this thread, and you say "nobody even tested 4cells"? Hmm... I suggest you just takeoff 2cells, move RX or ESC to battery side, and give it a try. It's just relocate your elect, not even need to mod. Driving is believing, right?
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:00 PM   #318
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I like this idea of more cars on track, with longer rounds.
Quick calc.
take a meeting with 120drivers as an example. for 10 car heats a round should last 96mins (12heats x (5mins + 3mins gap)). Now if you have 12 car hearts, and, as a start run 6min legs, that means a round should last only 90 minutes (10 x (6+3)).... hmmm, longer time on track for competitors, with less time to run a round... win/win if you ask me.
Will this stop the apparent overheating issue? Not on it's own, no... but is it something maybe to look at, especially given all that excess capacity we now have.

I personally am in the camp of the end user is the biggest problem. By it's very nature any competitive sport is going to have people pushing equipment to it's limit for an edge...
Maybe it can be helped by equipment manufactuers upping there game in some areas, but really, it is still on the end user.
Thankfully, I'm in the equipment camp that I know has some of the best specs out there (Hi Terry ). At a recent national over here in the uk, track temps were in the 50C's... no problems with overheating.

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Old 07-13-2006, 12:39 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttso
There are soooo many info about how 4cells running in real world in this thread, and you say "nobody even tested 4cells"? Hmm... I suggest you just takeoff 2cells, move RX or ESC to battery side, and give it a try. It's just relocate your elect, not even need to mod. Driving is believing, right?
Ok so I am not going to go re-read the entire thread.

So please link to the posts that show MANUFACTURERS comparisons of:

Run time
Brush life
Top speeds
Lap times
Motor temps
ESC temps
Receiver battery requirements

Please show me.
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:48 PM   #320
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I would go along with the majority of the permanent tracks I know of could handle 12 cars. The thing everyone over looks about adding cars to the track is will those 2 extra drivers fit on the stand? You would need about 30 feet for 12 guys = 2.5ft/person. (Remember kids, some of us are nutritionally advanced.)
the temp tracks (large carpet races) usually do have a few more feet of space than they need around the edge to add on some track. Don't bring up the "where are the spectators going to watch from" part. That's where organizing some bench seating comes into play. It also helps with keeping people out of walk ways. even figure skating has organized seating
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:44 PM   #321
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For those that have tried 4 cell
How much lower in winds do you have to go to get the speed back?
What it the temp difference after a 5 min run?
What was done different gearing wise?
What was the condition of the Comm?

What was the weight of the car being tested?
How did the car feel with less weight?
What Batts were used for testing, 4200?

Also how will this affect the Lipo just being introduced to the market?

On another, I run mostly nitro sedan at a permanent track that we run 1/8th scale in and have noticed more and more electric cars since the introduction of the B/L systems and 4200 and they are now faster than the nitro sedans.
It just goes to show how far electric has gone.

I remember last year a few tried electric at that track but could not make
runtime when geared for decent speed.
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:15 PM   #322
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Is there anybody on this thread that ran TC with Sanyo 2000 mAh NiCads?

At that time, was anybody complaining about the lack of speed?

Did we consider Touringcars as very slow?

I don't recall that. So I think it will be hard getting used to 4-cell speed after years of 6-cells. But in the end you won't look back.

So, all you top drivers - Solder off 2 cells and try 4-cells this weekend!
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:36 PM   #323
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Many (most?) tracks will let you run your own class if you can get at least 4 of you to run. . .

so give it a shot. . .if you have 4 of you running, should be an even better comparison and test. . .
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:43 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
On another, I run mostly nitro sedan at a permanent track that we run 1/8th scale in and have noticed more and more electric cars since the introduction of the B/L systems and 4200 and they are now faster than the nitro sedans.
It just goes to show how far electric has gone.

I remember last year a few tried electric at that track but could not make
runtime when geared for decent speed.
Was that Revelation?

When we ran Pro10 there (6c mod) we would run 9 or 10T and would JUST make run time. . .IF we were "nice" on the throttle. We would be BALLISTIC (faster than all but 1/8th) but many of us would dump at 4:45 or just make the 5 minute run. . .

was TONS of fun. . .

Push up against the time limits. . .teaches lots.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:01 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
Ok so I am not going to go re-read the entire thread.

So please link to the posts that show MANUFACTURERS comparisons of:

Run time
Brush life
Top speeds
Lap times
Motor temps
ESC temps
Receiver battery requirements

Please show me.
Hey Rick,
Chris Grainger posted in the Ask C-SRacing thread that some Team Yokomo personal had tested 4cell mod in relation to the JRMCA nats... post is here.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showpost...postcount=5760

Not much info given away over it, but it seems some are testing it.

Oh, and good result at the worlds, any chance of grabbing your setup

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Old 07-13-2006, 04:15 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer
Was that Revelation?

When we ran Pro10 there (6c mod) we would run 9 or 10T and would JUST make run time. . .IF we were "nice" on the throttle. We would be BALLISTIC (faster than all but 1/8th) but many of us would dump at 4:45 or just make the 5 minute run. . .

was TONS of fun. . .

Push up against the time limits. . .teaches lots.

Yup its revelation. They had neisenger and a few guys running 1/12 at the track and they were running times half a second faster than the nitro sedans and a little over half of a second off the 1/8th scale times. All were running brushless systems.

I noticed last year you guys would be .30 faster for the first two mins or so the every ones times would drop off. I guess with the 4200 or maybe the 1/12th being more efficient they were just as fast down to the last min on thier 8 min races.

The pro 10 squad should start heading up again and demolish the track record with the new batts. I could see those cars ripping at 50mph
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:19 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBreve
Is there anybody on this thread that ran TC with Sanyo 2000 mAh NiCads?

At that time, was anybody complaining about the lack of speed?

Did we consider Touringcars as very slow?

I don't recall that. So I think it will be hard getting used to 4-cell speed after years of 6-cells. But in the end you won't look back.

So, all you top drivers - Solder off 2 cells and try 4-cells this weekend!
They werent complaining about speed, but they were about dumping!



Also one thing no body has talked about! what about all these people that will be buying or bought ready to run's with 6 cell sticks! Are you going to turn them away? Now they need to buy or make 4 cell packs! I guess they need to spend more "money"

One more thing that came to mind. When turning up the motor's timing heat increases due to amp draw then lets require a timing restriction on mod motors! Example a ridge or tab that wont let the motor go past say 8 or 10 deg's and limit it to 10 or 12 turn winds.
Then you wont worry about people burning up motors, and speedos by timing the hell out of the motor! Now the cars will be tamer and tire wear will be reduced.

I'd like to hear from Josh and Rick on this.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:37 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedxl
One more thing that came to mind. When turning up the motor's timing heat increases due to amp draw then lets require a timing restriction on mod motors! Example a ridge or tab that wont let the motor go past say 8 or 10 deg's and limit it to 10 or 12 turn winds.
Then you wont worry about people burning up motors, and speedos by timing the hell out of the motor! Now the cars will be tamer and tire wear will be reduced.
You know, I think I might actually like this idea. Its been said turn limits alone generally don't do anything as people just crank the timing and tune the motor super agressively. But a limit on the timing as well just might make it harder to tune the motor to the point of meltdown. That said, we just might see things like stock style arm blanks used to wind mods (didn't Trinity do something like Tri-rotor mods back in the day?), leading us back to the original problem.

What ever it is, just tell me the rules and I'll race it. I just want to race.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:39 PM   #329
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Here's something to think about.


Going up in voltage reduces amp draw. So if we went to higher voltage and used lower tuen motors that resulted in similar performance to the lower turn 6-cell in theory we should have the runtime, reduced stress, and speed.

I guess I'll have to set up some test and see what happens.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:45 PM   #330
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Reasons why Touring cars are faster.

1. Chassis design has enabled the the cars to be better balanced and thus have a much higher cornering speed.

2. Supension geometry has now come to an ideal geometry most TC supension has a very simlar pivot dimension and roll center adjustment range this make the car very easy to drive at speed so they don't handle like a shed.

3.Tyre technolgy allow the tyre to run hotter for longer and produce more grip than ever before more grip more corner speed.

4. drive train effiency has improve to a point where it there bettween 1 and 2% loss due to belt wrap or the friction of the bevel gears.

5. bodie shell have become aerodynamic effiecent rather than realistic therefore the downforce and low drag has increased top speed and grip

6. Battery voltage has increase incapacity over the last two years.

The question is what do you change as slowing them down isn't really going to make them slower.

For anyone information about real classes such a group b rallying and c-class racing it was the organisers that killed it off as the got scared of the risk being too high rather than the driver and manufacture plus the rs200 was very underdevelope when it killed those spectators.
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