New X10P4 Touring Car From MLP
10-05-2006, 05:12 AM
#571
Originally Posted by RC Old Man
I think you are taking this wrong. Marty is designing a touring car. What he is doing, which other companies don't, is showing all the progress and changes during the design process. We use this fourm to commuicate,share and get ideas.
10-05-2006, 06:53 AM
#572
getting ideas
I think my point is being missed. Getting ideas is great, but it can be an endless process. Unless Marty is independently wealthy (he says he isn't), he must actually make sales and make some money at some point. At all companies, current sales fund future development.
Many people on this board don't agree with what x-ray, tamiya, and others do- releasing a new car once or more a year, but that is what makes money. If you release the perfect car, you will only get 1 sale per person (plus some hop-ups, spare parts, etc,) and you will be out of business soon after those who want your car buy it. Unless Marty is running a charity, he has to sell kits and make money, period.
The following will probably upset some, so flame suit on:
On to another point:
I don't pretend to know all or even half about the physics of rc touring car design and analysis, but if you ask 5 people how to fix a particular handling problem, you will probably get 5 answers. Most in rc (not all, most) have an understanding of cause and effect will regard to handling from what they have tried, not from the physics and forces point of view. On any car, you can change 5 things (sways, springs, oil, droop, caster, etc) one at a time from the base setup and get a similar result in handling. The most important thing in rubber asphault racing is the tire, which has little to do with the tc design. I would challenge many of those who give suggestions to change this or that part to actually explain why it makes a difference, not that it looks better. Things like caster, sways, springs can all be changed on a finished car, I am mostly talking about the suspension and chassis design.
Xray, tamiya, losi, etc, rely on their designers to design the car and their team drivers to tweak small things to make the car better. They don't ask for suggestions from others (if they did, you wouldn't have a lot of new designs, just improvements of the exisiting designs- see the paragraph above for why.) I have always found that if you want to succeed and become a player, you must first act like the existing players act, as much as you and your budget allow.
Responses?
Many people on this board don't agree with what x-ray, tamiya, and others do- releasing a new car once or more a year, but that is what makes money. If you release the perfect car, you will only get 1 sale per person (plus some hop-ups, spare parts, etc,) and you will be out of business soon after those who want your car buy it. Unless Marty is running a charity, he has to sell kits and make money, period.
The following will probably upset some, so flame suit on:
On to another point:
I don't pretend to know all or even half about the physics of rc touring car design and analysis, but if you ask 5 people how to fix a particular handling problem, you will probably get 5 answers. Most in rc (not all, most) have an understanding of cause and effect will regard to handling from what they have tried, not from the physics and forces point of view. On any car, you can change 5 things (sways, springs, oil, droop, caster, etc) one at a time from the base setup and get a similar result in handling. The most important thing in rubber asphault racing is the tire, which has little to do with the tc design. I would challenge many of those who give suggestions to change this or that part to actually explain why it makes a difference, not that it looks better. Things like caster, sways, springs can all be changed on a finished car, I am mostly talking about the suspension and chassis design.
Xray, tamiya, losi, etc, rely on their designers to design the car and their team drivers to tweak small things to make the car better. They don't ask for suggestions from others (if they did, you wouldn't have a lot of new designs, just improvements of the exisiting designs- see the paragraph above for why.) I have always found that if you want to succeed and become a player, you must first act like the existing players act, as much as you and your budget allow.
Responses?
Last edited by billjacobs; 10-05-2006 at 07:08 AM.
10-05-2006, 07:07 AM
#573
Originally Posted by billjacobs
I think my point is being missed. Getting ideas is great, but it can be an endless process. Unless Marty is independently wealthy (he says he isn't), he must actually make sales and make some money at some point. At all companies, current sales fund future development.
Many people on this board don't agree with what x-ray, tamiya, and others do- releasing a new car once or more a year, but that is what makes money. If you release the perfect car, you will only get 1 sale per person (plus some hop-ups, spare parts, etc,) and you will be out of business soon after those who want your car buy it. Unless Marty is running a charity, he has to sell kits and make money, period.
The following will probably upset some, so flame suit on:
On to another point:
I don't pretend to know all or even half about the physics of rc touring car design and analysis, but if you ask 5 people how to fix a particular handling problem, you will probably get 5 answers. Most in rc (not all, most) have an understanding of cause and effect will regard to handling from what they have tried, not from the physics and forces point of view. On any car, you can change 5 things (sways, springs, oil, droop, caster, etc) one at a time from the base setup and get a similar result in handling. The most important thing in rubber asphault racing is the tire, which has little to do with the tc design. I would challenge many of those who give suggestions to change this or that part to actually explain why it makes a difference, not that it looks better.
Xray, tamiya, losi, etc, rely on their designers to design the car and their team drivers to tweak small things to make the car better. They don't ask for suggestions from others (if they did, you wouldn't have a lot of new designs, just improvements of the exisiting designs- see the paragraph above for why.) I have always found that if you want to succeed and become a player, you must first act like the existing players act, as much as you and your budget allow.
Responses?
Many people on this board don't agree with what x-ray, tamiya, and others do- releasing a new car once or more a year, but that is what makes money. If you release the perfect car, you will only get 1 sale per person (plus some hop-ups, spare parts, etc,) and you will be out of business soon after those who want your car buy it. Unless Marty is running a charity, he has to sell kits and make money, period.
The following will probably upset some, so flame suit on:
On to another point:
I don't pretend to know all or even half about the physics of rc touring car design and analysis, but if you ask 5 people how to fix a particular handling problem, you will probably get 5 answers. Most in rc (not all, most) have an understanding of cause and effect will regard to handling from what they have tried, not from the physics and forces point of view. On any car, you can change 5 things (sways, springs, oil, droop, caster, etc) one at a time from the base setup and get a similar result in handling. The most important thing in rubber asphault racing is the tire, which has little to do with the tc design. I would challenge many of those who give suggestions to change this or that part to actually explain why it makes a difference, not that it looks better.
Xray, tamiya, losi, etc, rely on their designers to design the car and their team drivers to tweak small things to make the car better. They don't ask for suggestions from others (if they did, you wouldn't have a lot of new designs, just improvements of the exisiting designs- see the paragraph above for why.) I have always found that if you want to succeed and become a player, you must first act like the existing players act, as much as you and your budget allow.
Responses?
The mlp car may be changing alot but it is gettign better and better, we are just posting comments on here about the car and what has been changed, usually companys dont post what they have changed, but in this case Marty posts everything. Usually companys test and change and not post but as Marty has the time he shares with us what he chanegs to the car (which i think is great).
Jamie
10-05-2006, 07:21 AM
#574
my reason for posting
My reason for posting is to echo marty's feelings on the last page that the car is the car. I have gone through what he is going through numerous times, although in a different industry, and I wanted to lend my "support" in words for what he is doing.
I don't think I am saying anything that marty doesn't already know. I am simply trying to support what he is doing, and a part of that support is to try to help him be successful, which he will be if he sells the product. I am happy to share what I have learned in the hope that it helps him. (Unlike others who have asked for sponsorships and deals, I have nothing to gain from making these comments.)
It has been my experience that many businesses fail because of a lack of conviction and sticking to your guns. When Marty said that the car is the car on the last page, I thought that was great. In later posts, it seemed that he was again asking for ideas on how to change this or that. If I am wrong, so be it.
Again, I wish marty luck and success.
I don't think I am saying anything that marty doesn't already know. I am simply trying to support what he is doing, and a part of that support is to try to help him be successful, which he will be if he sells the product. I am happy to share what I have learned in the hope that it helps him. (Unlike others who have asked for sponsorships and deals, I have nothing to gain from making these comments.)
It has been my experience that many businesses fail because of a lack of conviction and sticking to your guns. When Marty said that the car is the car on the last page, I thought that was great. In later posts, it seemed that he was again asking for ideas on how to change this or that. If I am wrong, so be it.
Again, I wish marty luck and success.
10-05-2006, 07:24 AM
#575
Originally Posted by billjacobs
My reason for posting is to echo marty's feelings on the last page that the car is the car. I have gone through what he is going through numerous times, although in a different industry, and I wanted to lend my "support" in words for what he is doing.
I don't think I am saying anything that marty doesn't already know. I am simply trying to support what he is doing, and a part of that support is to try to help him be successful, which he will be if he sells the product. I am happy to share what I have learned in the hope that it helps him. (Unlike others who have asked for sponsorships and deals, I have nothing to gain from making these comments.)
It has been my experience that many businesses fail because of a lack of conviction and sticking to your guns. When Marty said that the car is the car on the last page, I thought that was great. In later posts, it seemed that he was again asking for ideas on how to change this or that. If I am wrong, so be it.
Again, I wish marty luck and success.
I don't think I am saying anything that marty doesn't already know. I am simply trying to support what he is doing, and a part of that support is to try to help him be successful, which he will be if he sells the product. I am happy to share what I have learned in the hope that it helps him. (Unlike others who have asked for sponsorships and deals, I have nothing to gain from making these comments.)
It has been my experience that many businesses fail because of a lack of conviction and sticking to your guns. When Marty said that the car is the car on the last page, I thought that was great. In later posts, it seemed that he was again asking for ideas on how to change this or that. If I am wrong, so be it.
Again, I wish marty luck and success.
Jamie
10-05-2006, 07:37 AM
#576
I support marty in what ever way he desires to design his cars.
at least he is building a car to challenge the tamiya, Associated et als of the world. I would like to see if any of the other car manufacturers custom make a part for your car and give you several battery configurations to chose from. Also and most importantly, where are there any new and contemporary designs for an rc F1 car?
wn
at least he is building a car to challenge the tamiya, Associated et als of the world. I would like to see if any of the other car manufacturers custom make a part for your car and give you several battery configurations to chose from. Also and most importantly, where are there any new and contemporary designs for an rc F1 car?
wn
10-05-2006, 08:06 AM
#577
you have to make money to keep a business
Again, unless marty is running a charity, he has to sell the car and parts to make money to stay in business. It is great that marty will custom create a part, but how much money is involved in making that custom part:
1) design the part
2) map the part on a cad program
3) buy graphite
4) use a cnc machine to cut the part
5) goto 1 until the part is right
How much would the part sell for? How many can you sell? Can you make a profit?
These are the issues that we deal with everyday when someone asks for a change. Our process is similar with out the graphite and cnc machine
1) design the function (requirements, etc)
2) outline the function
3) code the function
4) test the function
5) go to 3) until the function is right.
Our advantage today is that we have many thousands of users who spread the costs.
1) design the part
2) map the part on a cad program
3) buy graphite
4) use a cnc machine to cut the part
5) goto 1 until the part is right
How much would the part sell for? How many can you sell? Can you make a profit?
These are the issues that we deal with everyday when someone asks for a change. Our process is similar with out the graphite and cnc machine
1) design the function (requirements, etc)
2) outline the function
3) code the function
4) test the function
5) go to 3) until the function is right.
Our advantage today is that we have many thousands of users who spread the costs.
10-05-2006, 08:18 AM
#578
Originally Posted by billjacobs
My reason for posting is to echo marty's feelings on the last page that the car is the car. I have gone through what he is going through numerous times, although in a different industry, and I wanted to lend my "support" in words for what he is doing.
I don't think I am saying anything that marty doesn't already know. I am simply trying to support what he is doing, and a part of that support is to try to help him be successful, which he will be if he sells the product. I am happy to share what I have learned in the hope that it helps him. (Unlike others who have asked for sponsorships and deals, I have nothing to gain from making these comments.)
It has been my experience that many businesses fail because of a lack of conviction and sticking to your guns. When Marty said that the car is the car on the last page, I thought that was great. In later posts, it seemed that he was again asking for ideas on how to change this or that. If I am wrong, so be it.
Again, I wish marty luck and success.
I don't think I am saying anything that marty doesn't already know. I am simply trying to support what he is doing, and a part of that support is to try to help him be successful, which he will be if he sells the product. I am happy to share what I have learned in the hope that it helps him. (Unlike others who have asked for sponsorships and deals, I have nothing to gain from making these comments.)
It has been my experience that many businesses fail because of a lack of conviction and sticking to your guns. When Marty said that the car is the car on the last page, I thought that was great. In later posts, it seemed that he was again asking for ideas on how to change this or that. If I am wrong, so be it.
Again, I wish marty luck and success.
I concur on what you have posted to a point.
I wanted to make a touring car for myself sick of buying the next best thing to come out each year and the price of them going up and up every change or model!
And taking a hit every time I got a new car so it would be off to ebay and selling the old car getting maybe 1/3 of what I had into it and getting the new car in and spending 30% more than the last car and then with all the hopups well there we go again till the next best car comes out.
So I set out here to one show people what we were doing in the way of making a touring car and giving them a chance at having input on it.
Now it is time to go to market and sell what we have done.
We are making 3mm Chassis plates and upper decks for carpet racing this is what they want so we will give it to them I for one do not feel this is the way to go but this is what they want Why because someone else's car has it or there past cars had it.
Me on the other hand I will be running a 2mm upper and lower with the new upper deck. and I will be testing a car with a 4mm lower and a 2mm upper and I feel this is the way to go.
I do not know yet for sure but I think the 4mm and 2mm package is the way to go!
Plus you keep the weight lower in the car!
I will keep working at this car and will offer updates to the car as we go so one that has the car can email me and say marty can we see this for the car or make that for the car and so on and we will make changes so that it will work on every car that has gone out the door if it will not work on every car at a low cost then we will not make it.
Yes I have customers that would like this over that and so on and it is fine because each car is built by hand one at a time so changing things for a customer for the most part is fine!
10-05-2006, 08:24 AM
#579
Originally Posted by RC Old Man
I think you are taking this wrong. Marty is designing a touring car. What he is doing, which other companies don't, is showing all the progress and changes during the design process. We use this fourm to commuicate,share and get ideas.
Like a good old hunting dog.
10-05-2006, 08:26 AM
#580
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keep topic on the car
Bill...all great that you are trying to assist Marty...but this type of topic/comments should be done via PM....after all this is part of Marty's selling and update tool and guess what you're adding verbage not related to the car but to the business process. And you should know a VENDOR who disturbs the Clients business process usually doesn't get the contract.
So please PM Marty with those suggestions.
Or talk about the car OR BETTER YET....Buy a Car....his link is paypal ready!
He's got my order.....ohhh by the way....the wide top deck is something i wanted...not sure if he was thinking of doing it prior to me asking...but it's what got the sale from as well as his constant improvement.
Thanks to all.....and every racer should have at least one true exotic racer in their stable.
So please PM Marty with those suggestions.
Or talk about the car OR BETTER YET....Buy a Car....his link is paypal ready!
He's got my order.....ohhh by the way....the wide top deck is something i wanted...not sure if he was thinking of doing it prior to me asking...but it's what got the sale from as well as his constant improvement.
Thanks to all.....and every racer should have at least one true exotic racer in their stable.
10-05-2006, 08:27 AM
#581
Originally Posted by billjacobs
Again, unless marty is running a charity, he has to sell the car and parts to make money to stay in business. It is great that marty will custom create a part, but how much money is involved in making that custom part:
1) design the part
2) map the part on a cad program
3) buy graphite
4) use a cnc machine to cut the part
5) goto 1 until the part is right
How much would the part sell for? How many can you sell? Can you make a profit?
These are the issues that we deal with everyday when someone asks for a change. Our process is similar with out the graphite and cnc machine
1) design the function (requirements, etc)
2) outline the function
3) code the function
4) test the function
5) go to 3) until the function is right.
Our advantage today is that we have many thousands of users who spread the costs.
1) design the part
2) map the part on a cad program
3) buy graphite
4) use a cnc machine to cut the part
5) goto 1 until the part is right
How much would the part sell for? How many can you sell? Can you make a profit?
These are the issues that we deal with everyday when someone asks for a change. Our process is similar with out the graphite and cnc machine
1) design the function (requirements, etc)
2) outline the function
3) code the function
4) test the function
5) go to 3) until the function is right.
Our advantage today is that we have many thousands of users who spread the costs.
a Home Run!
This is perfect Bill.
Most do not understand what it takes to make just one change in a product!
10-05-2006, 08:29 AM
#582
Originally Posted by nagatahawk
I support marty in what ever way he desires to design his cars.
at least he is building a car to challenge the tamiya, Associated et als of the world. I would like to see if any of the other car manufacturers custom make a part for your car and give you several battery configurations to chose from. Also and most importantly, where are there any new and contemporary designs for an rc F1 car?
wn
at least he is building a car to challenge the tamiya, Associated et als of the world. I would like to see if any of the other car manufacturers custom make a part for your car and give you several battery configurations to chose from. Also and most importantly, where are there any new and contemporary designs for an rc F1 car?
wn
All good points
10-05-2006, 08:32 AM
#583
Originally Posted by olhipster1
Bill...all great that you are trying to assist Marty...but this type of topic/comments should be done via PM....after all this is part of Marty's selling and update tool and guess what you're adding verbage not related to the car but to the business process. And you should know a VENDOR who disturbs the Clients business process usually doesn't get the contract.
So please PM Marty with those suggestions.
Or talk about the car OR BETTER YET....Buy a Car....his link is paypal ready!
He's got my order.....ohhh by the way....the wide top deck is something i wanted...not sure if he was thinking of doing it prior to me asking...but it's what got the sale from as well as his constant improvement.
Thanks to all.....and every racer should have at least one true exotic racer in their stable.
So please PM Marty with those suggestions.
Or talk about the car OR BETTER YET....Buy a Car....his link is paypal ready!
He's got my order.....ohhh by the way....the wide top deck is something i wanted...not sure if he was thinking of doing it prior to me asking...but it's what got the sale from as well as his constant improvement.
Thanks to all.....and every racer should have at least one true exotic racer in their stable.
10-05-2006, 08:49 AM
#584
Ok my turn ok and I hope this will be the end of all of this!
Bill thanks you were helping out letting others know just what it takes to bring something to market and the Cause and effect of every change and standing by me when I said this is it.
It is time for this car to go to market.
Yes I understand everything you posted but this was not for me as it was more for all of you out there ok.
Bill sounds like he knows what he is talking about right.
Well he is dead nuts on. No BS here ! I thank you for your points Bill!
Yes Maybe this end of it should be dome in pm or email Orlando stated.
I think most missed the point and that is in short Time and Money!
With out it MLP will not be here for long and he is right!
I offer a touring car yes I let the people that buy them go with some of the stuff they want and some of it can not be changed!
Yes I have been working on a upper deck Orlando we knew come carpet season that we would need to make one. Fred and you both as well as others had alot to do with this. Thank you.
all of you.
Bill thanks you were helping out letting others know just what it takes to bring something to market and the Cause and effect of every change and standing by me when I said this is it.
It is time for this car to go to market.
Yes I understand everything you posted but this was not for me as it was more for all of you out there ok.
Bill sounds like he knows what he is talking about right.
Well he is dead nuts on. No BS here ! I thank you for your points Bill!
Yes Maybe this end of it should be dome in pm or email Orlando stated.
I think most missed the point and that is in short Time and Money!
With out it MLP will not be here for long and he is right!
I offer a touring car yes I let the people that buy them go with some of the stuff they want and some of it can not be changed!
Yes I have been working on a upper deck Orlando we knew come carpet season that we would need to make one. Fred and you both as well as others had alot to do with this. Thank you.
all of you.
10-05-2006, 09:08 AM
#585
So not one of you were wrong!!!!!!! ok.
Bill said what he had to say yes the buisness end of it!
I bet thinking most of you did not understand what it takes to do this!
Fred was on with his point yes this is to help MLP and the car and a place for use to go over everything.
Jamie well he was looking out for me I would say. But Bill was doing the same.
Orlando he was right as well making a good point (but Bill made the point he set out to do) Nothing more not to attack MLP (He did not) and not to attack anyone ok.
DA_cookie_monst (Great Guy) was just looking to help and I for one kinda lost it after reading 25 emails and 10 pms and so on like I do each day and I went over the top and kinda lost it in telling him this is the car no more changes down the road I will offer updates for every car if one would want to buy them. DA_cookie_monst I am sorry I went off ok.
This is where Bill came in I think ok.
Wyane Well he stands by MLP and hopes one day for MLP to be as big as Tamiya and HPI and so on and always has good input.
Look everything we do here is great yes it all helps on all ends but in the end I am making a car and selling a car. and the sale of this car will bring more from MLP ok. for the sales of a car is our Budget for updates upgrades to keep this one car going from MLP.
Bill said what he had to say yes the buisness end of it!
I bet thinking most of you did not understand what it takes to do this!
Fred was on with his point yes this is to help MLP and the car and a place for use to go over everything.
Jamie well he was looking out for me I would say. But Bill was doing the same.
Orlando he was right as well making a good point (but Bill made the point he set out to do) Nothing more not to attack MLP (He did not) and not to attack anyone ok.
DA_cookie_monst (Great Guy) was just looking to help and I for one kinda lost it after reading 25 emails and 10 pms and so on like I do each day and I went over the top and kinda lost it in telling him this is the car no more changes down the road I will offer updates for every car if one would want to buy them. DA_cookie_monst I am sorry I went off ok.
This is where Bill came in I think ok.
Wyane Well he stands by MLP and hopes one day for MLP to be as big as Tamiya and HPI and so on and always has good input.
Look everything we do here is great yes it all helps on all ends but in the end I am making a car and selling a car. and the sale of this car will bring more from MLP ok. for the sales of a car is our Budget for updates upgrades to keep this one car going from MLP.