27LikesFWD in the US
01-02-2024, 01:03 PM
#1
FWD in the US
If you follow/watch the very well structured ETS series in Europe…the front wheel drive class consistently produces the most competitive triple mains…and the largest number of entries.
In the states the class is barely represented. I wonder why? The cars look cool and seem to be pretty racey…kits cost less (I won’t say more affordable).
What would it take to gain popularity?
Which tracks or races currently have the best FWD touring program in the US carpet or paved?
I noticed that they added FWD to the Snowbirds lineup this year….I think they had a class at Cleveland back in November.
In my opinion there are already too many car types and fractured classes by “skill level” …and trying to establish yet another chassis class…is hard to justify as most race programs are already saturated with options that thin down a smaller racer pool.
So…with all that said:
Can FWD touring car racing gain popularity in the US? If yes…what would help that become reality?
In the states the class is barely represented. I wonder why? The cars look cool and seem to be pretty racey…kits cost less (I won’t say more affordable).
What would it take to gain popularity?
Which tracks or races currently have the best FWD touring program in the US carpet or paved?
I noticed that they added FWD to the Snowbirds lineup this year….I think they had a class at Cleveland back in November.
In my opinion there are already too many car types and fractured classes by “skill level” …and trying to establish yet another chassis class…is hard to justify as most race programs are already saturated with options that thin down a smaller racer pool.
So…with all that said:
Can FWD touring car racing gain popularity in the US? If yes…what would help that become reality?
Last edited by Newwave.george; 01-02-2024 at 06:35 PM.
01-02-2024, 01:11 PM
#2
Tech Prophet
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Ohio has a couple tracks that offer a FWD class. Not sure how consistent the turnouts are. I’ve got one. I can run in USGT with it. But locally touring car based class are inconsistent
01-02-2024, 04:44 PM
#4
Tech Adept
iTrader: (5)
FWD is very popular in SoCal. In San Diego, The Lap Factory added it to the program in summer of 2022 and its had a solid following since, usually close to a full heat of drivers every event. The other SoCal tracks have added FWD also with similar results. What helps is the tracks are less than 100 miles away so many of us bounce around.
TLF runs similar to the ETS rules. Hobbywing 17.5ft motor / esc combo, 4.5 FDR minimum, Ride treaded tires and FWD body. The other tracks vary slightly allowing open gearing and in one case open tire on spoked wheels.
The racing is clean, very close and fun to watch. The Top 5 at TLF are usually within .1 on the fast lap and one event i recall the top 5 finished within a few seconds. With the spec motor and fixed gearing, its basically down to who can drive the most consistent. Another thing i like is the cars are fast enough to interest expert type drivers, but not so fast that intermediate drivers are intimidated and dont want to join.
TLF ran a few 'exhibition' type heats of FWD which is how i think it really caught on. And i agree, the bodies haven't fell fate to what happened to USGT (yet).
TLF runs similar to the ETS rules. Hobbywing 17.5ft motor / esc combo, 4.5 FDR minimum, Ride treaded tires and FWD body. The other tracks vary slightly allowing open gearing and in one case open tire on spoked wheels.
The racing is clean, very close and fun to watch. The Top 5 at TLF are usually within .1 on the fast lap and one event i recall the top 5 finished within a few seconds. With the spec motor and fixed gearing, its basically down to who can drive the most consistent. Another thing i like is the cars are fast enough to interest expert type drivers, but not so fast that intermediate drivers are intimidated and dont want to join.
TLF ran a few 'exhibition' type heats of FWD which is how i think it really caught on. And i agree, the bodies haven't fell fate to what happened to USGT (yet).
01-03-2024, 05:58 AM
#5
*Just my opinion*
I think the rapid growing / popularity of 25.5TC is going to kill the chance of FWD growing in this region. There are a few tracks that run it, and we discussed running at my home track. Also considering that FWD can be run with USGT I personally think will stunt its growth as well.
I think the rapid growing / popularity of 25.5TC is going to kill the chance of FWD growing in this region. There are a few tracks that run it, and we discussed running at my home track. Also considering that FWD can be run with USGT I personally think will stunt its growth as well.
01-03-2024, 10:21 AM
#6
*Just my opinion*
I think the rapid growing / popularity of 25.5TC is going to kill the chance of FWD growing in this region. There are a few tracks that run it, and we discussed running at my home track. Also considering that FWD can be run with USGT I personally think will stunt its growth as well.
I think the rapid growing / popularity of 25.5TC is going to kill the chance of FWD growing in this region. There are a few tracks that run it, and we discussed running at my home track. Also considering that FWD can be run with USGT I personally think will stunt its growth as well.
01-03-2024, 04:22 PM
#7
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
It all comes down to economics, you can purchase one touring car and run VTA, USGT, 17.5, 21.5, 25.5, and modified sedan, while FWD requires a bespoke kit that's really only used for one class, and pretty much anything other than sedan classes has low turnout or dies.
01-03-2024, 05:55 PM
#8
Tech Apprentice
FWD is also most of the times by far the biggest class at the ETS.
In my homecountry (Austria) it started for most of the guys as second class just 4fun, but with the grow in cars also the competion grows..
As always it all coins have to sides, but with current ETS rules as base you can say
Con - Most avaible FWD cars are not cheap and you can only race this class
Con - the Ride Tires can be sometime a little bit challenging
Pro - the HW Combi used in ETS is about 130$ ESC & Motor, with fixed timing and Limiter, so need of an big ESC or a "Motor of the Month"
Pro - Body´s looks great and you have just a handfull and most only on 0.7mm so they are durable
Pro - Its so much fun to race and fight because it had the "perfect" Speed for this class and the races looks awesome
I hope FWD get a boost also in US, because the class is worth it
In my homecountry (Austria) it started for most of the guys as second class just 4fun, but with the grow in cars also the competion grows..
As always it all coins have to sides, but with current ETS rules as base you can say
Con - Most avaible FWD cars are not cheap and you can only race this class
Con - the Ride Tires can be sometime a little bit challenging
Pro - the HW Combi used in ETS is about 130$ ESC & Motor, with fixed timing and Limiter, so need of an big ESC or a "Motor of the Month"
Pro - Body´s looks great and you have just a handfull and most only on 0.7mm so they are durable
Pro - Its so much fun to race and fight because it had the "perfect" Speed for this class and the races looks awesome
I hope FWD get a boost also in US, because the class is worth it
01-04-2024, 12:33 PM
#9
We have fired up FWD here in the North East. They had them at the NYGP at 360v2 Raceway, Cleveland, Winter Warrior IV at 180 Raceway and will at SnowBirds. Next weekend is Slowbirds at 180 Raceway and a bunch of us are taking the Fronti's. We have also club raced them at NJ Racing Promotions, Park Lane and 360v2 Raceway. The cars are so much fun to drive and the bodies are very cool. We have been running them with the USGT motor on grey belted USGT tires indoors on black CRC carpet. Fast lap times are very close to the USGT car fast lap times (although the USGT cars are more consistent). The cars are 100g lighter and you can run a lower FDR so they're actually very fast.
When we move outdoors, we are hoping to evaluate the 21.5 / 17.5 motor options and TC tires as we quite honestly don't need another USGT based motor/tire class. We don't have anything against the Gravity motors or tires, but having a "different" option I think will attract more guys to run this class (especially the quicker guys). If I'm running USGT I'm simply not all that interested in running a FWD USGT car, and if I'm running USGT I'm not likely going to run FWD if its got the same motor and tires. Only reason I ran both at Winter Warrior IV was my 21.5/25.5 TC wasn't ready yet. The 17.5 HobbyWing Justock setup is definitely an affordable option, but too many guys have ESC's and motors that are not going to want to go out and buy the HobbyWing setup, regardless of how cheap it is, especially when they already have equipment in their pit bag they'd like to run. I also know that most folks here in the USA hate fixed gearing. So if that's the route folks would like to go, I'd suggest we throw it out there and see if there's interest. If so, lock it down with a uniform set of rules so folks can run their Fronti anywhere. That's the biggest problem with GT12 (foam tire, spec tire, open tire, USGT motor, open motor, locked timing other motors, etc).
The key for this class is to find a good TC tire that'll last longer than what folks have been running now on asphalt. If a new set of tires is quicker than a set with a few runs, that'll kill the class when folks with deep pockets (or free/discounted tires) will run a new set every round and main. I'd be very curious if anyone has any experience with the Rush SPE36VR2 (Japan Nats Control Tire) or Rush High Precision VR3 36X Shore tires. Both are advertised as high wearing with lower drop off than other TC tires.
When we move outdoors, we are hoping to evaluate the 21.5 / 17.5 motor options and TC tires as we quite honestly don't need another USGT based motor/tire class. We don't have anything against the Gravity motors or tires, but having a "different" option I think will attract more guys to run this class (especially the quicker guys). If I'm running USGT I'm simply not all that interested in running a FWD USGT car, and if I'm running USGT I'm not likely going to run FWD if its got the same motor and tires. Only reason I ran both at Winter Warrior IV was my 21.5/25.5 TC wasn't ready yet. The 17.5 HobbyWing Justock setup is definitely an affordable option, but too many guys have ESC's and motors that are not going to want to go out and buy the HobbyWing setup, regardless of how cheap it is, especially when they already have equipment in their pit bag they'd like to run. I also know that most folks here in the USA hate fixed gearing. So if that's the route folks would like to go, I'd suggest we throw it out there and see if there's interest. If so, lock it down with a uniform set of rules so folks can run their Fronti anywhere. That's the biggest problem with GT12 (foam tire, spec tire, open tire, USGT motor, open motor, locked timing other motors, etc).
The key for this class is to find a good TC tire that'll last longer than what folks have been running now on asphalt. If a new set of tires is quicker than a set with a few runs, that'll kill the class when folks with deep pockets (or free/discounted tires) will run a new set every round and main. I'd be very curious if anyone has any experience with the Rush SPE36VR2 (Japan Nats Control Tire) or Rush High Precision VR3 36X Shore tires. Both are advertised as high wearing with lower drop off than other TC tires.
01-04-2024, 03:15 PM
#10
We have fired up FWD here in the North East. They had them at the NYGP at 360v2 Raceway, Cleveland, Winter Warrior IV at 180 Raceway and will at SnowBirds. Next weekend is Slowbirds at 180 Raceway and a bunch of us are taking the Fronti's. We have also club raced them at NJ Racing Promotions, Park Lane and 360v2 Raceway. The cars are so much fun to drive and the bodies are very cool. We have been running them with the USGT motor on grey belted USGT tires indoors on black CRC carpet. Fast lap times are very close to the USGT car fast lap times (although the USGT cars are more consistent). The cars are 100g lighter and you can run a lower FDR so they're actually very fast.
When we move outdoors, we are hoping to evaluate the 21.5 / 17.5 motor options and TC tires as we quite honestly don't need another USGT based motor/tire class. We don't have anything against the Gravity motors or tires, but having a "different" option I think will attract more guys to run this class (especially the quicker guys). If I'm running USGT I'm simply not all that interested in running a FWD USGT car, and if I'm running USGT I'm not likely going to run FWD if its got the same motor and tires. Only reason I ran both at Winter Warrior IV was my 21.5/25.5 TC wasn't ready yet. The 17.5 HobbyWing Justock setup is definitely an affordable option, but too many guys have ESC's and motors that are not going to want to go out and buy the HobbyWing setup, regardless of how cheap it is, especially when they already have equipment in their pit bag they'd like to run. I also know that most folks here in the USA hate fixed gearing. So if that's the route folks would like to go, I'd suggest we throw it out there and see if there's interest. If so, lock it down with a uniform set of rules so folks can run their Fronti anywhere. That's the biggest problem with GT12 (foam tire, spec tire, open tire, USGT motor, open motor, locked timing other motors, etc).
The key for this class is to find a good TC tire that'll last longer than what folks have been running now on asphalt. If a new set of tires is quicker than a set with a few runs, that'll kill the class when folks with deep pockets (or free/discounted tires) will run a new set every round and main. I'd be very curious if anyone has any experience with the Rush SPE36VR2 (Japan Nats Control Tire) or Rush High Precision VR3 36X Shore tires. Both are advertised as high wearing with lower drop off than other TC tires.
When we move outdoors, we are hoping to evaluate the 21.5 / 17.5 motor options and TC tires as we quite honestly don't need another USGT based motor/tire class. We don't have anything against the Gravity motors or tires, but having a "different" option I think will attract more guys to run this class (especially the quicker guys). If I'm running USGT I'm simply not all that interested in running a FWD USGT car, and if I'm running USGT I'm not likely going to run FWD if its got the same motor and tires. Only reason I ran both at Winter Warrior IV was my 21.5/25.5 TC wasn't ready yet. The 17.5 HobbyWing Justock setup is definitely an affordable option, but too many guys have ESC's and motors that are not going to want to go out and buy the HobbyWing setup, regardless of how cheap it is, especially when they already have equipment in their pit bag they'd like to run. I also know that most folks here in the USA hate fixed gearing. So if that's the route folks would like to go, I'd suggest we throw it out there and see if there's interest. If so, lock it down with a uniform set of rules so folks can run their Fronti anywhere. That's the biggest problem with GT12 (foam tire, spec tire, open tire, USGT motor, open motor, locked timing other motors, etc).
The key for this class is to find a good TC tire that'll last longer than what folks have been running now on asphalt. If a new set of tires is quicker than a set with a few runs, that'll kill the class when folks with deep pockets (or free/discounted tires) will run a new set every round and main. I'd be very curious if anyone has any experience with the Rush SPE36VR2 (Japan Nats Control Tire) or Rush High Precision VR3 36X Shore tires. Both are advertised as high wearing with lower drop off than other TC tires.
I have tried those set of tires last summer
I am really very much like the VR3 36X . it provides the excellent grips and the wear is so call medium
SPE 36VR2 it very less grips tires and the wear is very low .
PS speaking of out door racing
01-04-2024, 06:58 PM
#12
Tech Apprentice
Its a super fun class but the main reason I don't run it is the chosen motor wind. The platform is really limited under acceleration so the hot motor $$$ difference is really hard to overcome with setup or driving. I think this class would be amazing with a little "too much power" to make the motor choice a non factor.
01-04-2024, 07:07 PM
#13
Tech Adept
iTrader: (5)
I recently started testing the Ride 2426 slick on my FWD on asphalt. Its 26mm wide, but fits on the 24mm wheels still. Sidewall is a bit taller, so tire overall diameter is slightly higher. Rubber compound is the same as the USGT treaded. The mold is good and balance easily. Mold seam is on par with other TC tires. Tires are not belted, so no idea how they will work on carpet.
I ran the tires right out of the bag and they felt great within 2-3 laps. I made no setup changes, other than a little more camber. I need some more time to comment on if they are faster or not. They are certainly much more accepting of higher camber values, with no hint of uneven wear or the death ring.
With the USGT tire, in one run if you are running too much camber you can really trash a set of new tires. I found the foam is too soft in them, so the tire ends up deforming enough that you are running on the inside bead of the wheel causing the uneven wear in turns. I think this is more pronounced with FWD due to the front weight bias.
After 5 runs, i saw no noticeable uneven wear on the 2426 slick. No idea how many runs these are good for yet. I used to get 10-12 runs out of the USGT tires if you kept an eye on wear and adjusted camber accordingly.
One thing i really like about these slicks are they require zero prep like the treaded tires. No balancing, sanding or saucing required.
https://thelapfactoryshop.com/produc...wheels-white-1
I ran the tires right out of the bag and they felt great within 2-3 laps. I made no setup changes, other than a little more camber. I need some more time to comment on if they are faster or not. They are certainly much more accepting of higher camber values, with no hint of uneven wear or the death ring.
With the USGT tire, in one run if you are running too much camber you can really trash a set of new tires. I found the foam is too soft in them, so the tire ends up deforming enough that you are running on the inside bead of the wheel causing the uneven wear in turns. I think this is more pronounced with FWD due to the front weight bias.
After 5 runs, i saw no noticeable uneven wear on the 2426 slick. No idea how many runs these are good for yet. I used to get 10-12 runs out of the USGT tires if you kept an eye on wear and adjusted camber accordingly.
One thing i really like about these slicks are they require zero prep like the treaded tires. No balancing, sanding or saucing required.
https://thelapfactoryshop.com/produc...wheels-white-1
01-06-2024, 06:00 AM
#15
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
I recently started testing the Ride 2426 slick on my FWD on asphalt. Its 26mm wide, but fits on the 24mm wheels still. Sidewall is a bit taller, so tire overall diameter is slightly higher. Rubber compound is the same as the USGT treaded. The mold is good and balance easily. Mold seam is on par with other TC tires. Tires are not belted, so no idea how they will work on carpet.
I ran the tires right out of the bag and they felt great within 2-3 laps. I made no setup changes, other than a little more camber. I need some more time to comment on if they are faster or not. They are certainly much more accepting of higher camber values, with no hint of uneven wear or the death ring.
With the USGT tire, in one run if you are running too much camber you can really trash a set of new tires. I found the foam is too soft in them, so the tire ends up deforming enough that you are running on the inside bead of the wheel causing the uneven wear in turns. I think this is more pronounced with FWD due to the front weight bias.
After 5 runs, i saw no noticeable uneven wear on the 2426 slick. No idea how many runs these are good for yet. I used to get 10-12 runs out of the USGT tires if you kept an eye on wear and adjusted camber accordingly.
One thing i really like about these slicks are they require zero prep like the treaded tires. No balancing, sanding or saucing required.
https://thelapfactoryshop.com/produc...wheels-white-1
I ran the tires right out of the bag and they felt great within 2-3 laps. I made no setup changes, other than a little more camber. I need some more time to comment on if they are faster or not. They are certainly much more accepting of higher camber values, with no hint of uneven wear or the death ring.
With the USGT tire, in one run if you are running too much camber you can really trash a set of new tires. I found the foam is too soft in them, so the tire ends up deforming enough that you are running on the inside bead of the wheel causing the uneven wear in turns. I think this is more pronounced with FWD due to the front weight bias.
After 5 runs, i saw no noticeable uneven wear on the 2426 slick. No idea how many runs these are good for yet. I used to get 10-12 runs out of the USGT tires if you kept an eye on wear and adjusted camber accordingly.
One thing i really like about these slicks are they require zero prep like the treaded tires. No balancing, sanding or saucing required.
https://thelapfactoryshop.com/produc...wheels-white-1
In Ohio FWD is USGT spec motor and the USGT Grey rimmed tire. That is where it evolved to.
Still a hit or miss class at club races.
Someone mentioned the cost of the kit. I have the 3Racing Cero Ultra FWD. That kit with a alloy chassis is under $375 at your door. It is a very solid kit with excellent fit and finish. Not like 3Racings older gen cars. Now top quality.