1514LikesGT12-RT
05-07-2024, 10:13 AM
#1711
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,740
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
For now I’ve found a replacement class. Unfortunately, it changes what tracks run at. As one of my local tracks is 1/12 only.
05-07-2024, 11:18 AM
#1712
As my friend from Florida said (and we raced this past Sunday). The orginal deal with your rubber tires was just clean them. Now your skimming them. Ya'll complained about truing tires- look at your post . There is no shortage of the spec foam tires. Then ya'll went to the USGT motors with spec gearing - there is no spec equal motors made (some will be dogs and some won't). Us Florida guys have open motors and the gear ratios are about the same with the different motors. The major difference is the drivers age- The young guys blow us older guys away BUT we still have fun with our hobby. Racers will always be racers and try to find an advantage.
Down here 1/12th was total dead till GT12 came. Now we even have some GTP 1/12th's showing up at some club races. Its having fun with my fellow racers is what keeps me in this hobby. When we finish racing we go to the pits and talk. Even on our way home. If you aren't having fun it's time to find something else to spend your money on! Come to Florida and enjoy the hot sunshine and race on Asphalt - Espicially our Fathers day Race June15th at Valkaria (home of two ROAR Nationals). We will be glad to help you out anyway we can. Have Fun we will.
Down here 1/12th was total dead till GT12 came. Now we even have some GTP 1/12th's showing up at some club races. Its having fun with my fellow racers is what keeps me in this hobby. When we finish racing we go to the pits and talk. Even on our way home. If you aren't having fun it's time to find something else to spend your money on! Come to Florida and enjoy the hot sunshine and race on Asphalt - Espicially our Fathers day Race June15th at Valkaria (home of two ROAR Nationals). We will be glad to help you out anyway we can. Have Fun we will.
05-07-2024, 11:43 AM
#1713
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,740
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
If it wasn’t over 1,000 miles to Florida, it would be an option. But 1,000 miles pretty much stops any consideration. Especially for on road. Never seen 1/12 run outdoors. Unlikely ever will.
Those that win in stock 1/12, are usually the same that win in GT12 at the tracks I’ve raced at. They have more knowledge of the cars then the few of us that started later will ever know.
Those that win in stock 1/12, are usually the same that win in GT12 at the tracks I’ve raced at. They have more knowledge of the cars then the few of us that started later will ever know.
05-07-2024, 01:29 PM
#1714
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
We onroad racers are really good at killing classes.
05-07-2024, 03:16 PM
#1715
I'm not sure what to tell you Billy. I don't know what Matt and Mike do, but I have 1 or 2 sets of tires I race. If I skim tires, I skim them at home because they are out of whack side to side. I know a lot of guys in different areas now hit the tires with one of those abrasive brush wheels for a Dremel. That's not a big investment if you wanted to try that.
The gear on the motor never feels right. The only way to know is how hot the motor is and how much the lap time falls off. Garcia and I talk about gears a lot, and there is never a definitive answer. If your car is not free, the motor will be hot anyway.
You do have resources at the track. Jim D is there and he has helped a lot of guys. I don't think you can get any better advice anywhere.
The reality is that there are a lot of very competitive guys who race at the track, and they have been around a long time. I know the turn outs were huge at first, but like anything else, if the same guys keep winning participation goes down. Maybe fixed gear would have helped, I'm not sure. I know there were almost always tires at the track. They some how stayed on top of that
The gear on the motor never feels right. The only way to know is how hot the motor is and how much the lap time falls off. Garcia and I talk about gears a lot, and there is never a definitive answer. If your car is not free, the motor will be hot anyway.
You do have resources at the track. Jim D is there and he has helped a lot of guys. I don't think you can get any better advice anywhere.
The reality is that there are a lot of very competitive guys who race at the track, and they have been around a long time. I know the turn outs were huge at first, but like anything else, if the same guys keep winning participation goes down. Maybe fixed gear would have helped, I'm not sure. I know there were almost always tires at the track. They some how stayed on top of that
05-07-2024, 04:49 PM
#1716
Us Florida guys only get to race on carpet maybe 5 times a year. The rest is asphalt. We always help the new guys - all they have to do is ask. Even had a practice pack charged and our new/old racer forgot to charge his battery used mine and put at least a lap on me. I still had fun and glad I could help.
05-07-2024, 07:45 PM
#1717
Gravity RC makes the USGT fixed timing 21.5 motor with a black 30* end-bell (used in the USGT class) and the red 45* end-bell (usually used in oval racing). But they also make a silver can fixed timing 17.5 motor sold with the same red 45* end-bell. Put the black 30* end-bell on that motor and it would be the PERFECT motor for GT12. Use the same rules where the timing cannot exceed 33* in tech. This would be similar to the Motiv locked timing 17.5 motors that they use for handout motors in the GT12 class at 180 Raceway. Casey sets the timing on all of the motors using a Motorlyser and then seals them. The speed/power is perfect using these locked timing 17.5's. The racing is still very tight, but not boringly slow like when using the 21.5 USGT motors. They do use the blue/purple stripe spec tires at 180 though.
I'm hoping these new Gravity 12th scale rubber tires only need to be cleaned/sauced like a TC tire and offer good grip without any cutting/skimming. Add that to the 30* 17.5 fixed timing Gravity motor and I think this class could really take off.
I'm hoping these new Gravity 12th scale rubber tires only need to be cleaned/sauced like a TC tire and offer good grip without any cutting/skimming. Add that to the 30* 17.5 fixed timing Gravity motor and I think this class could really take off.
05-08-2024, 05:56 AM
#1718
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,740
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
I'm not sure what to tell you Billy. I don't know what Matt and Mike do, but I have 1 or 2 sets of tires I race. If I skim tires, I skim them at home because they are out of whack side to side. I know a lot of guys in different areas now hit the tires with one of those abrasive brush wheels for a Dremel. That's not a big investment if you wanted to try that.
The gear on the motor never feels right. The only way to know is how hot the motor is and how much the lap time falls off. Garcia and I talk about gears a lot, and there is never a definitive answer. If your car is not free, the motor will be hot anyway.
You do have resources at the track. Jim D is there and he has helped a lot of guys. I don't think you can get any better advice anywhere.
The reality is that there are a lot of very competitive guys who race at the track, and they have been around a long time. I know the turn outs were huge at first, but like anything else, if the same guys keep winning participation goes down. Maybe fixed gear would have helped, I'm not sure. I know there were almost always tires at the track. They some how stayed on top of that
The gear on the motor never feels right. The only way to know is how hot the motor is and how much the lap time falls off. Garcia and I talk about gears a lot, and there is never a definitive answer. If your car is not free, the motor will be hot anyway.
You do have resources at the track. Jim D is there and he has helped a lot of guys. I don't think you can get any better advice anywhere.
The reality is that there are a lot of very competitive guys who race at the track, and they have been around a long time. I know the turn outs were huge at first, but like anything else, if the same guys keep winning participation goes down. Maybe fixed gear would have helped, I'm not sure. I know there were almost always tires at the track. They some how stayed on top of that
Different tracks running different motors didn’t help. Some say the USGT is even, some say there no two equal. I never could figure out the oval motor. But the USGT motor on fixed gearing. Didn’t see the speed difference I had seen before. Car was still bad, could see clear the steering problems.
Maybe went the gravity tires because available I’ll give them a shot.
05-08-2024, 10:18 AM
#1719
I don't even try to get people into this class anymore. You couldn't get the tires for so long that it died out at our track, and my experience is if you're a "fast guy" and one to compete, you have to wait for the tires to come in or take em down yourself. It was just like "well I have the slow gokart this week" or "look I did a pro thing and scared everyone off." There's more people running foam now. My foam car is nearly the same speed from 41.7mm down to plastic and the tires last 3 weeks at a minimum. I'm a huge advocate for classes that are great for beginners and I just feel that this has turned into HARDER 12th scale that is just slower, so I bring my car and run if people want to, but it's somewhat turned into my foam parts car unfortunately.
To me it's similar to VTA except in VTA you can chase the rear tire change as it gains grip through its life by doing pretty dramatic setup changes with SLA double wishbone tricks like camber gain, toe, etc, but in these 12th scale cars, when the tires are so different across their life, the window of what you can do based on the tire's point in its lifecycle is very limited as the cars were designed around foam tires. You basically have truing or saucing, and the rubber changes too. My experience with the class and the "non foam guys" is that in rubber tire, they're bouncing off the boards.
Wish had turned out different. I got a lot of folks into this class and was a real class ambassador in the beginning.
To me it's similar to VTA except in VTA you can chase the rear tire change as it gains grip through its life by doing pretty dramatic setup changes with SLA double wishbone tricks like camber gain, toe, etc, but in these 12th scale cars, when the tires are so different across their life, the window of what you can do based on the tire's point in its lifecycle is very limited as the cars were designed around foam tires. You basically have truing or saucing, and the rubber changes too. My experience with the class and the "non foam guys" is that in rubber tire, they're bouncing off the boards.
Wish had turned out different. I got a lot of folks into this class and was a real class ambassador in the beginning.
05-08-2024, 02:46 PM
#1720
I don't even try to get people into this class anymore. You couldn't get the tires for so long that it died out at our track, and my experience is if you're a "fast guy" and one to compete, you have to wait for the tires to come in or take em down yourself. It was just like "well I have the slow gokart this week" or "look I did a pro thing and scared everyone off." There's more people running foam now. My foam car is nearly the same speed from 41.7mm down to plastic and the tires last 3 weeks at a minimum. I'm a huge advocate for classes that are great for beginners and I just feel that this has turned into HARDER 12th scale that is just slower, so I bring my car and run if people want to, but it's somewhat turned into my foam parts car unfortunately.
To me it's similar to VTA except in VTA you can chase the rear tire change as it gains grip through its life by doing pretty dramatic setup changes with SLA double wishbone tricks like camber gain, toe, etc, but in these 12th scale cars, when the tires are so different across their life, the window of what you can do based on the tire's point in its lifecycle is very limited as the cars were designed around foam tires. You basically have truing or saucing, and the rubber changes too. My experience with the class and the "non foam guys" is that in rubber tire, they're bouncing off the boards.
Wish had turned out different. I got a lot of folks into this class and was a real class ambassador in the beginning.
To me it's similar to VTA except in VTA you can chase the rear tire change as it gains grip through its life by doing pretty dramatic setup changes with SLA double wishbone tricks like camber gain, toe, etc, but in these 12th scale cars, when the tires are so different across their life, the window of what you can do based on the tire's point in its lifecycle is very limited as the cars were designed around foam tires. You basically have truing or saucing, and the rubber changes too. My experience with the class and the "non foam guys" is that in rubber tire, they're bouncing off the boards.
Wish had turned out different. I got a lot of folks into this class and was a real class ambassador in the beginning.
I have a different setup based on the version of the tire. I haven't run the blue one but I have all of the other 5.
05-08-2024, 03:02 PM
#1721
Still like our Florida version with no problems with Foam tires and open motors. As for my CRC chassis works fine both indoors and outdoors. With all the new Rubber tires coming ya'll should have no problem with tires. 1/12th is where I started many years ago - it died and the GT12 (F or R) has brought it back to life. Enjoy the class if it is to slow for you go to GTP. By the way our only carpet track has no heat or AC so whatever the temperature is outside it is inside. So enjoy your climate controlled indoor tracks. wish we had some down here.
05-09-2024, 05:20 AM
#1723
Tech Regular
"R"
05-09-2024, 05:32 AM
#1724
I'm not sure what to tell you Billy. I don't know what Matt and Mike do, but I have 1 or 2 sets of tires I race. If I skim tires, I skim them at home because they are out of whack side to side. I know a lot of guys in different areas now hit the tires with one of those abrasive brush wheels for a Dremel. That's not a big investment if you wanted to try that.
The gear on the motor never feels right. The only way to know is how hot the motor is and how much the lap time falls off. Garcia and I talk about gears a lot, and there is never a definitive answer. If your car is not free, the motor will be hot anyway.
You do have resources at the track. Jim D is there and he has helped a lot of guys. I don't think you can get any better advice anywhere.
The reality is that there are a lot of very competitive guys who race at the track, and they have been around a long time. I know the turn outs were huge at first, but like anything else, if the same guys keep winning participation goes down. Maybe fixed gear would have helped, I'm not sure. I know there were almost always tires at the track. They some how stayed on top of that
The gear on the motor never feels right. The only way to know is how hot the motor is and how much the lap time falls off. Garcia and I talk about gears a lot, and there is never a definitive answer. If your car is not free, the motor will be hot anyway.
You do have resources at the track. Jim D is there and he has helped a lot of guys. I don't think you can get any better advice anywhere.
The reality is that there are a lot of very competitive guys who race at the track, and they have been around a long time. I know the turn outs were huge at first, but like anything else, if the same guys keep winning participation goes down. Maybe fixed gear would have helped, I'm not sure. I know there were almost always tires at the track. They some how stayed on top of that
Even if guys do skim them at big events the tire cost is still minimal compared to running foams. You are limited to one set at any major so handle them with care. The skim cuts are just that and mainly to clean them up. I use the Dremel and brush (I found a poly bristle with abrasive bonded to the bristles at Menards) between rounds and have found very little difference vs a skim if the tires are even.
As a bench mark: A group of our guys are attending a race at another track and to get a second class one of them is going to rum 1/12 scale 17.5 for the first time. Another of our very experienced racers is loaning him a car and motor but the rest is up to him. He asked how many sets of tires he would need and the answer was 4 minimum. I chimed in to him, when you run at races like the Indoor Champs or Snowbirds, that number would be 8 for the top tier drivers.
That was just to make him aware of what he would face at full kill competitiveness in any foam class.
Some of our locals wanted to try WGT or a similar 1/10 scale class. I ran that back when it was a class. It was very similar and I ran that minimal 4 sets at a big race.