Alan_r

Yes, the same amount of teeth. It's going into the modified Pro and with the Tekin PRO4HD 4300, the stock gearing, the truck will pull the front wheels off the ground on the low end and keep up with EBuggies on the straights.However, now that the guy has the design saved, he can add or remove teeth.

BCane: I noticed in your post you mentioned that you changed the dampening by 2mm and it didn't do what you wanted. Maybe it's just a mix-up of terminology but I'm assuming you meant you changed the pre load on your shocks by 2mm. Adjusting the pre load does not affect dampening or spring rate. It only changes your ride height. Dampening is changed with shock pistons and oil weights, spring weight is changed only by changing springs. I didn't know if it's just the terms used or if you were really trying to change the dampening or not: if you were trying to change the dampening, this us why you saw no change.

bcane98

iTrader: (21)

Yup... wrong terminology. Preload is what I meant Looks like I'll be running the truck again at our track this weekend. Unfortunately the SCT scene at our track had thinned out, but it looks like last race smack talk has reignited the fire

Alan_r

Score! Finally got to test the new springs yesterday. While it was a bit cold and I felt that my shock oil may have been a little too think for the ambient temperature, the RC8.2 springs worked amazing. I ended up running the blue fronts and the green rears.

The issue I was having with the kit springs was this: My home track has a couple very large jumps that are navigated at a fairly high speed. This leads to a decent amount of air time and the landing area is flat. Basically the suspension has to absorb the full weight of the truck landing on all four wheels from about 3 1/2 feet in the air, but after flying a distance of 7-10' at high speed. I was having trouble getting the suspension to settle fast enough to regain complete control in order to navigate a high speed sweeper that immediately follows this landing. It's a beautiful thing to see the truck fly level, then land at high speed very softly, with allbfour wheels sticking to the track with no bounce and no chassis slap. The only issue I was having was it seemed like my shocks were unable to respond fast enough to navigate the rest of the rough track smoothly. Likely due to the shock oil and low temperature. I was able to easily turn fast, consistent laps with the truck at a pace similar to my B44.3 though so everything is very close one to being right.

One of the frustrating but necessary factors when tuning suspension is that when you adjust one thing, it changes everything else. Over time I had tuned out most of the jittery steering in this I truck. You could really lay on the power in the straights and the truck would hunker down and take off. Sometimes I would get so much weight transfer that the front wheels would lift off the ground. With the new springs I have lost this. The truck feels extremely touchy at high speeds and will start to sway left and right with increasing speed until you loose control and spin out if I'm not extremely gentle with the application of power. In my experience with this platform, this has everything to do with my ride height and front to rear balance of weight transfer. Unfortunately with the blue front springs, my pre load adjustment is all the way at the top so I can't lower the front end any more. I don't want to loose the blue springs so I now have to experiment with moving the shocks in on the front tower Tobey and lower the front ride height and gain some adjustment room. The truck could stand to gain some side to side stability and roll resistance so moving the shocks in on the towers may just work fine.

If anyone has been following along, you'll remember that at one point I had this truck dialled in. However, we did a complete track renovation and this has forced me to drastically change the base setup on certain vehicles to suite this track. This is a good thing however because once I get it dialled in again, I will have detailed setup sheets that cover different track conditions.Our last track had less flow to it and required a much more nimble setup whereas the current layout requires more high speed handling due to better flow. I have not run the stock ProSC on this track yet so I can't say how it does but given that the ProSC, like most Associated trucks, has an abundance of steering it shouldn't do to bad.

Sway bars: I run outdoors so I can't comment on indoor clay track setups but I have not found a spot where the sway bars benefit the truck. The chassis lean and corresponding weight transfer really help this truck stay in line. I've found that tuning with springs and shock positions/camber link length is more effective on the type of outdoor tracks I run on. It's funny, I waited so long to get the backordered sway bar kit and now it just sits in my parts box.....

Alan_r

So I moved the front shocks in one hole on the front tower. My ride height, while still maxed out in the front, settled at 31mm front and 29mm rear. I'll give this a try tomorrow. If this does not settle the truck down regarding proper weight transfer, I'll have to try the silver RC8.2 springs in the front. They are listed as 4.3 as opposed to the blue which are 4.65. The kit black springs are supposed to be 4.6 but the Rc8.2 springs feel so much better than the kit springs. I can't explain it other than they feel more controlled and stronger. It may have something to do with the frequency of the springs themselves. Either way, if you guys deck out this chassis with all the hardcore upgrade parts and electronics, prepare to do some suspension tuning to get things right. As it gets close to the right setup, the truck suddenly gets really easy to drive. I will say though that it's pretty obvious most of these upgrades were not given the same R&D that goes in to a chassis like the SC10. The tuning progression is all over the place and I'm dealing with things like the mechanical limits of the pre-load, while running the correct spring rate ect. ect. Overall though I can say for sure that this truck doesn't drive or feel like a ProSC anymore at all. For better or worse....

Alan_r

OK, ride height was a fail. The truck was all over the place and difficult to drive. Competitive laps on my track that day were 34.5 to 36 seconds per lap. I was hitting 36.6 consistently but they were extremely difficult to maintain. As a band-aid II moved the lower shock mounts to the outside as a last ditch effort to get the front end lower. Night and day; the truck was controllable but still off.

These posts may sound confusing so let me explain what's going on and what I'm trying to do.

With all the upgrades, I.E carbon/aluminum shock towers, metal differential cases ect. , the try weighs much more than designed. This has created an issue with the stock spring rates. The springs just weren't strong enough to remain reactive and do what they are supposed to do. So I broke out the RC8.2 springs I had bought last year and I'm trying to zero in on the correct shock package for the truck as it sits. Stock ride height is around 35mm front and rear. I've never been able to get the truck to handle right at this height. 30-32mm front and 29mm rear seems to work best for me. If these settings are wrong, the truck is really twitchy and darts left and right at will. Much of the "out of the box" issues this truck has are due to this. This sounds like an easy fix except in my case, with springs strong enough to support the truck properly in the front, I'm maxed out on my pee load adjustment. I can't lower the front enough. So I'm trying to find a.balance between having a heavy enough front spring while still allowing for some adjustment on the front shocks. The stock settings with the stock shocks calls for 2mm of pre-load in the front, so obviously this is part of the design of the truck.

So just step is to remove the blue springs and try the silver RC8.2 springs. This resulted in a front ride height of 30.5mm with the pre-load all the way at the top. So tomorrow I'll be running it like this. 30.5mm front, silver springs, 29.5mm rear with green springs.

It amazes me how sensitive this chassis is to ride height. It is more sensitive than any other vehicle I run. When it's right the truck is very stable and remains composed when accelerating and landing large jumps. When its wrong, the truck darts all over the place and is a handful to drive. I think it's important to note that all of this is at a very fast pace. Time wise, this truck is on the heels of the "race bred" trucks, hence the reason why these adjustments are so critical. The closer you get to the edge of maximum performance, the little things become very important. More to follow. AR

hellcat

Alan_R I am look to put in the Novak Crusher ESC and
Novak 4PHDSize 550 L2.62" x W1.41" / L66.5 x W35.9 mm did you have to mod anything on your chassis to get the motor to fit or do you have any suggestions for an ESC and motor combo the is under $200.00.


thanks for all your help!!!

Alan_r

Hellcat: the truck comes with a large 4 pole 550 so any 550 SCT motor is a direct bolt in. A few of us modified the esc tray to fit the larger esc's like the RX8. The details are a few pages back. As far as cheap power systems, I'm running a Turnigy TrackStar esc and 5300kv 540 in an SC10FT. It has held up so far and I think the total was around $200. Check out Hobbyking for the exact prices. Pay attention to whether or not the esc is the sensored version though. I mistakenly bought a sensorless Trackstar esc a while back because I wasn't paying attention. This forced me to buy a Team C sct to put it in because I couldn't have the esc just sitting around collecting dust.....to be honest, once moving the sensorless systems work just fine. They only stutter at the very beginning of a run so I don't notice it as much.

Good luck with your Pro! Pay attention to the things we've pointed out in this thread, they are critical and if you don't take care of them it will lead to frustration and broken parts! Let us know if you need any help. AR

hellcat

Alan_r thaks for the info but Im more worried about the Motors Length that is 66.5mm or do you have an idea what the max length is?

Alan_r

There is exactly 67.3mm of space before you hit the little ridge that outlines the ESC area. You could easily grind this area down if need be to clear sensor wires or whathaveyou. It should fit. That's a BIG motor. Lol

Alan_r

I still have not installed the new metal spur gear. I got an email from the guy who made it and he recommended using aluminium pinion gears. At first I thought "no problem" but as it turns out, aluminium pinion gears in 32P with a 5mm input shaft are not that common. I finally found some made by Castle Creations that should do. So I ordered a 16T and am waiting on it to arrive. Depending on how it wears, I think I am going to suggest making the spurs out of steel to facilitate the use of common hardened steel pinions. Has anyone ran a steel pinion on an aluminium spur gear before? I would imagine the wear would be catastrophic.

cerpindicular

iTrader: (1)

How have the new springs worked for you Alan? Regarding the spur/pinion I have ran hardened Robison Spurs on cheap pinions and done ok till something has changed the gear mesh and then destroyed the pinions. I have also had the pinions wear out fast when not set up just right. Though when all working correctly they were trouble free and awesome

Alan_r

In the end this is where I ended up. It was the best compromise between soft enough to absorb the track and yet firm enough to maintain control.

RC8.2 FT Silver in the front: 32.5W oil

RC8.2 FT Green in the rear: 27.5W oil

Stock RC8.2 kit pistons.

hellcat

Hay Alan_R

i am going to be trying

32.5W oil in the front

30W oil in the rear

with the stock springs i run on a clay track will see how things go!!!

Alan_r

Good deal man! Let us know how it work's out. The more people post their setups, the more this thread becomes a resource.

Additionally, here's a tip that may help prevent broken outdrives and hub parts. Put limiters on the front shocks- external. This will prevent the suspension from compressing far enough to create a bind at extreme angles while turning and compressing at the same time. AR

Alan_r

Has anyone bought and installed the new Factory Team front end parts for this truck? Admittedly, I was very surprised to see AE release these parts; mainly due to the comments all over the internet by people saying they didn't see AE supporting this truck in any way since it's not an "AE" chassis design. I guess they are selling enough of them to warrant upgrades for it, which is a good thing. I'm still using the Integy parts, which have worked out really well.

I really wish they would release a gear center diff for this truck. If you look at how the slipper assembly is installed it would be very easy to put a sealed diff in it's place. The bearing carriers are already in place and there is plenty of room.

The slipper has definitely been a beast to deal with while trying to get this thing dialed in. With the power available from the Tekin Pro4HD, the front end balloons the tires and makes it a bit unstable at times. For example, on my B44.3, when I lay down the power coming down the front straight, the car will straighten itself out by transferring power quickly between the wheels with traction and those that do not. It's actually really cool to watch it work as it snakes it's way down the straight. The ProSC on the other hand, and any 4x4 without a central diff, the power goes to all the tires equally creating a problem when your trying to steer with those tires. This results in an increasingly violent fishtail that is very difficult to recover from.

It is these little things that make the truck more difficult to drive than other race trucks. You really have to drive this truck in order to be even remotely competitive in the fast, open 4x4 SCT class. I would imagine that none of this really presents a problem in slower, less powerful classes as I found the stock ProSC pretty easy to drive once the suspension was properly set up.

So that's where I'm at right now with this truck. The changes that I've made have completely changed the way this truck drives. It's tougher, stiffer and way more reactive than it was before. It's also heavier and much more powerful. I need to work with the suspension and make it stable again. More to follow, AR.