1/8-Scale Buggy Shootout
08-27-2005, 11:31 AM
#91
Originally Posted by DerekB
Since most of the buggies are from Taiwan the price is probably all about the same cost if you compare plastic to plastic and metal to metal. The Kyosho sold for a lot here but was way cheaper in Japan. Some of us have to realize that the scale of price point is sometimes forced, and isn't about "quality".
A great quote from a company that was talking to me about pricing their product (aluminum aftermarket and probably the same supplier as the more name brand stuff)
We could price our part lower, but then people would perceive them to be crap, even though it's the same as most on the market.
Price isn't always the end all be all. And I'm not saying that the Jammin is the best performing buggy, but it sure is worth that money and for most it will be the best for them.
I think we're talking about similar stuff here. The only thing that bothers me in a thread like this is the assumption because we're a magazine we don't know what we're doing and you shouldn't listen to what we say. The rest of the discussion is fun stuff.
A great quote from a company that was talking to me about pricing their product (aluminum aftermarket and probably the same supplier as the more name brand stuff)
We could price our part lower, but then people would perceive them to be crap, even though it's the same as most on the market.
Price isn't always the end all be all. And I'm not saying that the Jammin is the best performing buggy, but it sure is worth that money and for most it will be the best for them.
I think we're talking about similar stuff here. The only thing that bothers me in a thread like this is the assumption because we're a magazine we don't know what we're doing and you shouldn't listen to what we say. The rest of the discussion is fun stuff.
08-27-2005, 12:04 PM
#92
Tech Fanatic
About Derek's last statement. I use to race with Derek back when he was in Ct at JP's so he knows what he is talking about and is competent in RC. Now I still live in Ct. and have the opportunity to race with the guys from 2 other mags and if you ever saw some of these guys run or tune engines you would think they were complete newbies. Now some know the real scoop about the cars but others are just terrible drivers who regularly run in the lowest main at my local track. Now that being said this same guy did a reveiw on a car and had some comments about how the car worked on the track that would discourage people from buying it vrs another car but this guy can't make it around the track without crashing 8 times even at a slow pace. How is this guy competent on how to tune the car or even comment on how the car handles? XRC gets all my props because I know Derek can run and make a fair judgement about the cars he reveiws.
08-27-2005, 01:30 PM
#93
Derek,
Imo, The people that rag on the mag the most are "usually" the ones who don't have nearly the ability of the people involved in the magazine and definately not nearly as much ability as the manufacturers they also tend to beat on. Armchair quarter back syndrome I guess...."It's always easier to tell someone else how to do things than it is to do them yourself"(a quote from upper management, LOL). You guys do a great job in the magazine, imo!
I will say that almost every car on the market is a decent car in some respect, wether for it's value, pedigree, reliability, etc. Most of the more expensive cars obviously have factored in for the exchange rate, or can charge more because they have won enough races for people to accept the pricing. Possibly those same companies also have the bigger budget for the best drivers, which helps with the cars perceived capability to win. "Almost" always those same cars include premium materials.
There are always exceptions, but when I can get bearings wholesale from suppliers in different stages for either $.80 each or I can buy the premium bearing for $4.00+ each, this has a profound effect on final pricing....a kit would require either a $12.80 bearing set or a premium $64.00 set(@ wholesale), that alone is a $50 difference in the "cost" of putting together a kit.
Take X rays XB8 and XB8R for example....The "R" version has a street price of $495, but the XB8 a street price of $700+. The difference is costs savings for the manufacturer......Same good car, same exchange rate, same potential results.
Brady, that is the beauty thing about our sport/hobby.......Each person can decide what is best for them. I am involved in 3 business's to support my habits, aka, hobbies and family. I just made the decision that if i'm spending $1500+ in support equipment, i'm obviously not concerned about saving money..although it's nice to say it, if I meant it I wouldn't race 1/8th scale.......
, Jim
I think we're talking about similar stuff here. The only thing that bothers me in a thread like this is the assumption because we're a magazine we don't know what we're doing and you shouldn't listen to what we say. The rest of the discussion is fun stuff.
I will say that almost every car on the market is a decent car in some respect, wether for it's value, pedigree, reliability, etc. Most of the more expensive cars obviously have factored in for the exchange rate, or can charge more because they have won enough races for people to accept the pricing. Possibly those same companies also have the bigger budget for the best drivers, which helps with the cars perceived capability to win. "Almost" always those same cars include premium materials.
There are always exceptions, but when I can get bearings wholesale from suppliers in different stages for either $.80 each or I can buy the premium bearing for $4.00+ each, this has a profound effect on final pricing....a kit would require either a $12.80 bearing set or a premium $64.00 set(@ wholesale), that alone is a $50 difference in the "cost" of putting together a kit.
Take X rays XB8 and XB8R for example....The "R" version has a street price of $495, but the XB8 a street price of $700+. The difference is costs savings for the manufacturer......Same good car, same exchange rate, same potential results.
Brady, that is the beauty thing about our sport/hobby.......Each person can decide what is best for them. I am involved in 3 business's to support my habits, aka, hobbies and family. I just made the decision that if i'm spending $1500+ in support equipment, i'm obviously not concerned about saving money..although it's nice to say it, if I meant it I wouldn't race 1/8th scale.......
, Jim
08-27-2005, 01:51 PM
#94
Originally Posted by W.E.D.Jim
Derek,
Imo, The people that rag on the mag the most are "usually" the ones who don't have nearly the ability of the people involved in the magazine and definately not nearly as much ability as the manufacturers they also tend to beat on. Armchair quarter back syndrome I guess...."It's always easier to tell someone else how to do things than it is to do them yourself"(a quote from upper management, LOL). You guys do a great job in the magazine, imo!
I will say that almost every car on the market is a decent car in some respect, wether for it's value, pedigree, reliability, etc. Most of the more expensive cars obviously have factored in for the exchange rate, or can charge more because they have won enough races for people to accept the pricing. Possibly those same companies also have the bigger budget for the best drivers, which helps with the cars perceived capability to win. "Almost" always those same cars include premium materials.
There are always exceptions, but when I can get bearings wholesale from suppliers in different stages for either $.80 each or I can buy the premium bearing for $4.00+ each, this has a profound effect on final pricing....a kit would require either a $12.80 bearing set or a premium $64.00 set(@ wholesale), that alone is a $50 difference in the "cost" of putting together a kit.
Take X rays XB8 and XB8R for example....The "R" version has a street price of $495, but the XB8 a street price of $700+. The difference is costs savings for the manufacturer......Same good car, same exchange rate, same potential results.
Brady, that is the beauty thing about our sport/hobby.......Each person can decide what is best for them. I am involved in 3 business's to support my habits, aka, hobbies and family. I just made the decision that if i'm spending $1500+ in support equipment, i'm obviously not concerned about saving money..although it's nice to say it, if I meant it I wouldn't race 1/8th scale......., Jim
Imo, The people that rag on the mag the most are "usually" the ones who don't have nearly the ability of the people involved in the magazine and definately not nearly as much ability as the manufacturers they also tend to beat on. Armchair quarter back syndrome I guess...."It's always easier to tell someone else how to do things than it is to do them yourself"(a quote from upper management, LOL). You guys do a great job in the magazine, imo!
I will say that almost every car on the market is a decent car in some respect, wether for it's value, pedigree, reliability, etc. Most of the more expensive cars obviously have factored in for the exchange rate, or can charge more because they have won enough races for people to accept the pricing. Possibly those same companies also have the bigger budget for the best drivers, which helps with the cars perceived capability to win. "Almost" always those same cars include premium materials.
There are always exceptions, but when I can get bearings wholesale from suppliers in different stages for either $.80 each or I can buy the premium bearing for $4.00+ each, this has a profound effect on final pricing....a kit would require either a $12.80 bearing set or a premium $64.00 set(@ wholesale), that alone is a $50 difference in the "cost" of putting together a kit.
Take X rays XB8 and XB8R for example....The "R" version has a street price of $495, but the XB8 a street price of $700+. The difference is costs savings for the manufacturer......Same good car, same exchange rate, same potential results.
Brady, that is the beauty thing about our sport/hobby.......Each person can decide what is best for them. I am involved in 3 business's to support my habits, aka, hobbies and family. I just made the decision that if i'm spending $1500+ in support equipment, i'm obviously not concerned about saving money..although it's nice to say it, if I meant it I wouldn't race 1/8th scale.......
, Jim
08-27-2005, 02:37 PM
#95
Tech Regular
Originally Posted by AWOLsoldier
I find 1/8th scale cheaper for me since i'm not replacing broken parts as often and everything tends to be more durable. Look, nobody is saying bad things about the magazine or derek - people need to be less defensive here. It's the only rc mag i buy anymore because it gets to the point and isn't a yellow pages like RC Car Action.
08-27-2005, 07:21 PM
#96
Imo, the least expensive class for me has been 2wd modified electric. Most races with my BK2 only cost an entry fee. When I race 1/8th I replace clutch bell bearings, shoes and I go thru fuel pretty quickly too. I find that even though the 1/8th buggies are more durable, since so many guys know that they tend to drive more aggressively which seems to even out breakage a bit. But rather then breaking a arms or ballcups like 1/10th, it's usually a shock shaft, or steering servo gear. I've seen the occasional crazy stuff break on some of the more insane tracks, things like engine cases and servo cases, shock bodies, etc.
Besides, I have about 1/3 of the investment in my 2w buggy, that I do in my 1/8th buggy, so that would be alot of broken arms to make up the other $1200 or so to get to $1800.
I'm not trying to be a hard case, mostly just thinking out loud...but in the 20 years of racing i've done, i've been thru every class, gas and electric from 1/24th scale to 1/8th scale, so i've been there and done that.........We used to complain about decreasing turnouts being because of the big money needed to compete, but now we know it is more about having a chance to win rather then what anything ever costs......Since there have been more classes added in the last four or five years, turnouts are coming back up and spending is at an all time high.
It gives me a kick when a guy at the track with a $10K trailer and $20K in cars and equipment tells me he bought a certain car used to save money............LOL, Jim
Besides, I have about 1/3 of the investment in my 2w buggy, that I do in my 1/8th buggy, so that would be alot of broken arms to make up the other $1200 or so to get to $1800.
I'm not trying to be a hard case, mostly just thinking out loud...but in the 20 years of racing i've done, i've been thru every class, gas and electric from 1/24th scale to 1/8th scale, so i've been there and done that.........We used to complain about decreasing turnouts being because of the big money needed to compete, but now we know it is more about having a chance to win rather then what anything ever costs......Since there have been more classes added in the last four or five years, turnouts are coming back up and spending is at an all time high.
It gives me a kick when a guy at the track with a $10K trailer and $20K in cars and equipment tells me he bought a certain car used to save money............LOL, Jim
08-27-2005, 07:38 PM
#97
Originally Posted by W.E.D.Jim
Imo, the least expensive class for me has been 2wd modified electric. Most races with my BK2 only cost an entry fee. When I race 1/8th I replace clutch bell bearings, shoes and I go thru fuel pretty quickly too. I find that even though the 1/8th buggies are more durable, since so many guys know that they tend to drive more aggressively which seems to even out breakage a bit. But rather then breaking a arms or ballcups like 1/10th, it's usually a shock shaft, or steering servo gear. I've seen the occasional crazy stuff break on some of the more insane tracks, things like engine cases and servo cases, shock bodies, etc.
Besides, I have about 1/3 of the investment in my 2w buggy, that I do in my 1/8th buggy, so that would be alot of broken arms to make up the other $1200 or so to get to $1800.
I'm not trying to be a hard case, mostly just thinking out loud...but in the 20 years of racing i've done, i've been thru every class, gas and electric from 1/24th scale to 1/8th scale, so i've been there and done that.........We used to complain about decreasing turnouts being because of the big money needed to compete, but now we know it is more about having a chance to win rather then what anything ever costs......Since there have been more classes added in the last four or five years, turnouts are coming back up and spending is at an all time high.
It gives me a kick when a guy at the track with a $10K trailer and $20K in cars and equipment tells me he bought a certain car used to save money............LOL, Jim
Besides, I have about 1/3 of the investment in my 2w buggy, that I do in my 1/8th buggy, so that would be alot of broken arms to make up the other $1200 or so to get to $1800.
I'm not trying to be a hard case, mostly just thinking out loud...but in the 20 years of racing i've done, i've been thru every class, gas and electric from 1/24th scale to 1/8th scale, so i've been there and done that.........We used to complain about decreasing turnouts being because of the big money needed to compete, but now we know it is more about having a chance to win rather then what anything ever costs......Since there have been more classes added in the last four or five years, turnouts are coming back up and spending is at an all time high.
It gives me a kick when a guy at the track with a $10K trailer and $20K in cars and equipment tells me he bought a certain car used to save money............LOL, Jim
That's the thing... give people more choices and they'll pick something that's in their budget. 8th scale is blowing up though - lots of affordable kits out there and some great engineering.
08-27-2005, 10:38 PM
#98
Originally Posted by AWOLsoldier
Who said you didn't know what you were doing? Magazines are a business, 20 dollar subscrips don't pay your bills, ads do. People will always question motives when there's outside influence.
Again, you're implying that because advertisors pay to be in a magazine they have some gun to our head. That is what you continue to do and try to deny. That is what I have a problem with when somebody new is on the board and this implication is presented.
It's not true. Case. Kyosho has one-two pages, Mugen 2, OFNA 4-6, TTR 0 (sometimes one) GS 2 (I think).
If you read the review we were painfully honest on the cars, pointing out flaws, and what is actually run in real racing. So where is this bais? Advertising pays our bills, but it's the readers trust that allows us to charge what we do and actually point out flaws/problems with kits. You may feel that other magazines do cater to their advertisors more than others. And we do go out of our way to help those helping us, but in the end MY reputation is more important to ME than misleading the readers.
DJG24...refresh my memory, I'm trying to think of people I raced with that have those initials.
08-27-2005, 10:41 PM
#99
Originally Posted by W.E.D.Jim
Imo, the least expensive class for me has been 2wd modified electric. Most races with my BK2 only cost an entry fee. When I race 1/8th I replace clutch bell bearings, shoes and I go thru fuel pretty quickly too. I find that even though the 1/8th buggies are more durable, since so many guys know that they tend to drive more aggressively which seems to even out breakage a bit. But rather then breaking a arms or ballcups like 1/10th, it's usually a shock shaft, or steering servo gear. I've seen the occasional crazy stuff break on some of the more insane tracks, things like engine cases and servo cases, shock bodies, etc.
Besides, I have about 1/3 of the investment in my 2w buggy, that I do in my 1/8th buggy, so that would be alot of broken arms to make up the other $1200 or so to get to $1800.
I'm not trying to be a hard case, mostly just thinking out loud...but in the 20 years of racing i've done, i've been thru every class, gas and electric from 1/24th scale to 1/8th scale, so i've been there and done that.........We used to complain about decreasing turnouts being because of the big money needed to compete, but now we know it is more about having a chance to win rather then what anything ever costs......Since there have been more classes added in the last four or five years, turnouts are coming back up and spending is at an all time high.
It gives me a kick when a guy at the track with a $10K trailer and $20K in cars and equipment tells me he bought a certain car used to save money............LOL, Jim
Besides, I have about 1/3 of the investment in my 2w buggy, that I do in my 1/8th buggy, so that would be alot of broken arms to make up the other $1200 or so to get to $1800.
I'm not trying to be a hard case, mostly just thinking out loud...but in the 20 years of racing i've done, i've been thru every class, gas and electric from 1/24th scale to 1/8th scale, so i've been there and done that.........We used to complain about decreasing turnouts being because of the big money needed to compete, but now we know it is more about having a chance to win rather then what anything ever costs......Since there have been more classes added in the last four or five years, turnouts are coming back up and spending is at an all time high.
It gives me a kick when a guy at the track with a $10K trailer and $20K in cars and equipment tells me he bought a certain car used to save money............LOL, Jim
On the topic of saving money. The people that show up with a 10K trailer probably go out of their way to save money. Rich don't get richer by blowing money. But for the majority of racers, $150 on a kit is a significant savings. I can pay $3.10 gallon for 91 octane, but I search out the ones that are 2.89. Is it a big difference, no, but every penny does matter.
Back on the topic.
WE RULE.
08-29-2005, 04:36 AM
#100
Tech Fanatic
Derek,
The DJG is Dan Gomez. Raced back when Frank Masi, Chris Koskowski, doc and some of the others ran. I use to race with my cousin and brother also there. I believe my cousin dated the girl who worked there for a short period of time after Chris went to college.
The DJG is Dan Gomez. Raced back when Frank Masi, Chris Koskowski, doc and some of the others ran. I use to race with my cousin and brother also there. I believe my cousin dated the girl who worked there for a short period of time after Chris went to college.
08-29-2005, 06:23 AM
#101
it's true that magazines sometimes give in to advertisers (i used to work for one, and i have seen it personally) but it is essentially up to the magazine weather they give in to this though.
BUT!....this thread is called "buggy shootout" not magazine shootout!
BUT!....this thread is called "buggy shootout" not magazine shootout!
08-29-2005, 09:10 AM
#103
Originally Posted by DJG24
Derek,
The DJG is Dan Gomez. Raced back when Frank Masi, Chris Koskowski, doc and some of the others ran. I use to race with my cousin and brother also there. I believe my cousin dated the girl who worked there for a short period of time after Chris went to college.
The DJG is Dan Gomez. Raced back when Frank Masi, Chris Koskowski, doc and some of the others ran. I use to race with my cousin and brother also there. I believe my cousin dated the girl who worked there for a short period of time after Chris went to college.
Good to see some of the old JP crew still active!
08-29-2005, 12:29 PM
#104
Tech Fanatic
Originally Posted by DerekB
I'm pretty sure I remember you. If I think I remember you got some job where your company car was a Taurus or something?
Good to see some of the old JP crew still active!
Good to see some of the old JP crew still active!
That's exactly Correct!!! It's amazing that your memory is that good!! It's really cool to see so many of the old JP boys stayed into the sport with the mags or even as Nationl champions. It's amazing a little shop like JP's has produced some big names in the industry. I think it's really cool you remembered me and I have to tell you last week I raced with Hetmanski and busted on him all day about how you mag rules over his. Thanks for the flashbacks of the old days. One last thing, it's a good thing the article didn't have the SP2 in it because I dove mine this weekend and it would have been a winner by a land slide!!!
08-29-2005, 02:34 PM
#105
Originally Posted by DJG24
That's exactly Correct!!! It's amazing that your memory is that good!! It's really cool to see so many of the old JP boys stayed into the sport with the mags or even as Nationl champions. It's amazing a little shop like JP's has produced some big names in the industry. I think it's really cool you remembered me and I have to tell you last week I raced with Hetmanski and busted on him all day about how you mag rules over his. Thanks for the flashbacks of the old days. One last thing, it's a good thing the article didn't have the SP2 in it because I dove mine this weekend and it would have been a winner by a land slide!!!
Those were some fun times racing there. I've got some of th best RC memories just racing there when we had like 30 trucks. I remember most of the guys there and through my JP cycle. Sometimes I have trouble remembering the names of some, but for the most part I remember everybody.
I see Kevin a few times a year along with some of the others. Glad to see you're back racing. I think you quit for a bit. We actually just got our SP2 and are building that for review. Where you racing now? I heard that Wolcott track is pretty nice. I was just at Madness and still like that track, although it's looking small for 1/8.