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http://www.hpiracing.com/assets/imag...723/header.jpg
Most of this information is copied from Torrance Deguzman, HPI/HB Mechanical Engineer, and Ty Tessmann, HPI/HB Professional Driver. Thank you both! I think it is great to have not only company representatives, but the designer and National Champion online to help us get the most out of the kit. I have no affiliation with HPI. 4/12/2015 update - Added Traxxas X-Ring info Shock Caps Aluminum HB caps are slowly trickling into the states, still on backorder in most places. They seem to be easily available overseas. West coast dock strikes... Before these were available, there are multiple reports of people having good luck with the plastic caps from the Team Associated B5 #91445 (Standoffs) and #91449 (Composite Caps). The proper installation is like the 8th scale shocks - http://i.imgur.com/3BF79UG.jpg Ty's Aluminum Shock Caps
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13160152)
the PL caps were designed by me but produced by PL as a favor. they were made for the Worlds just for extra insurance. the plastic caps work well but i suppose for heavy crashers it may pose problems. HB will release aluminum caps that work in conjunction with new shock upper mounts. the PL ones that Ty is currently using is made to fit over Kyosho mounts…
Quick Links Ty Tessmann's site with setup sheets HPI Product Page Shock Rebuild Tips Traxxas X-Rings are a good cheap alternative that reduce stiction and are very rugged. They are part of kit TRA2362. Build Tips From Torrance
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13150370)
Build Tip #1
Ty uses Kyosho x-rings which adds smoothness. During testing after the Cactus the AE guys gave us some of their new x-rings to try. They claim theirs work as well without the Kyo price. Haven't tried them yet though. I do the poor-man method... I use the stock o-rings but replace the spacer between them with a 1.5mm ballstud washer instead (the standard spacer is 2mm). Smoothens the shock action without leaks. Build Tip #2 The shock can be built bladder style or emulsion style. I think the manuals shows it being built with a bladder. If you choose to build it emulsion style you'll have to trim the bladder and drill the hole through the cap for the bleeder screw. 1.5mm or #55 drill bit (see picture) http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...ut-diagram.jpg There's also a small dimple on the shock cap that you can ream out. If you build it bladder style this helps the excess oil escape when screwing on the cap. 1/8 guys should be familiar with this feature. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0905.jpg Build Tip #3 I made the spring collar o-rings a little on the tight side in case if some drivers like them tight. If you want to loosen the collar action you can cut off a portion of the o-ring before stuffing it into the collar. For me I use a 3/4 ring (cut off 1/4). http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0904.jpg Build Tip #4 During the initial build you pop the shock onto the tower ball stud. However in order to prevent the fit from getting sloppy over time, do not pop it off the ball when removing the shock. Instead used the supplied stamped wrench and undo the nut instead. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0900.jpg Build Tip #5 You can adjust your droop by threading the shock eyelet in and out. The shafts and eyelets were designed for this so you don't run out of thread. The shock shafts already have markings on them. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0914.jpg
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13166796)
Build Tip #6
When installing the motor, clock the solder tabs off to the side. If you have it vertically straight up and down the tabs and wires will interfere with the body. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0902.jpg Build Tip #7 This is more of a maintenance tip but it is useful to know when you are installing your electronics. The center diff is a very useful tuning item for this car. To access it, remove the motor clamp, the 4 screws on the top plate, and the 4 screws at the bottom which holds the bulkheads. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0906.jpg Once those are off you can swing the motor out of the way then you can slide the diff/bulkhead assembly off to the side. When you mount your ESC and receiver make sure you leave room to do this. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0907.jpg Build Tip #8 Use scrap lexan to make 'L' shaped brackets to mount velcro for the body. There should be plenty of usable excess from trimming the wing. When you mount the brackets make sure you have enough room for the battery to be installed in the full forward position, just in case if you want to try that setup. http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...y-img_0901.jpg Build Tip #9 If you look at the battery straps for the saddle pack (the two shorter ones included in the kit) there are two holes on the straps that seem to have no purpose. The spacing between those holes is exactly the same as the servo mounting holes. You can use the strap as a servo centering jig so that it is easier to center the servo between the mounts before you mount the servo assembly onto the chassis. Hopefully that makes sense. [I'll try to add a pic later.] http://www.avidrc.com/shop/images/pr...ol_mounted.jpg
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13160152)
…i put some black grease on the hex pin before installing it. the grease causes it to stick in place. i tried thread lock before and that works too but be very careful how much you put on - if you put too much it'll be extremely difficult to remove. if you opt with thread lock just put a tiny dab at the ends and make sure it doesn't come near the axle.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13130610)
I didn't bother CA'ing the edges of any of the carbon parts. the only prep I did was to chamfer the chassis lower edges with a dremel.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13076246)
I mount my ESC in the rear because the wiring is cleaner. But to compensate I run the battery forward. Ty has his ESC up front but has his battery in the middle position.
I don't know if my ESC mounting makes the handling better or not but it works well enough for me. Granted I can't drive like Ty. Setup Tips from Ty
Originally Posted by TYTESSMANN
(Post 13155272)
I personally don't use the servo saver I use the HB servo horn and go directly to my servo, I think with the super high torque and super strong servos that we have now you don't really need to use a servo saver, but if you are on a budget and you want to preserve your servo you just have to set it according to driveability.
As far as oils for the kit for the front I have used 20K, 15k and 10k diff oils, Losi makes all these oils, for the center you will need 100k and 300k, I have tested higher and lower but didn't really like them. For the rear you will need 10k and down depending on track conditions. All my setups are posted on my website, I will be posting another setup today based on an indoor loose track, from these setups everyone should be able to get a setup for the conditions that they run on. If anyone needs additional setup tips, you can go on my website to the Ask Ty portion of the site and I will do my best to answer the questions as soon as possible. There is also a diff building video on my site under the tips and tricks, this will be especially helpful for those of you that normally only run electric. Torrance has built an amazing diff, I would say that these diffs will last 4x as long as a ball diff before you need to change the oil.
Gearing Code:
Motor 4wd FDR D413 pinionWith a shorty this buggy is going to be lighter than the average 4wd, you can probably get away with more aggressive gearing, but the data from Novak is a good place to start. If you want more speed and are still under 160 degrees Fahrenheit, go up a tooth. With new gearing, always check motor and ESC temperatures every couple laps. A cheap IR temp gun makes this task very painless.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12623929)
currently the largest pinion that the car will accept is a 38T which will yield a final drive of 6.27. hopefully this can get you in the ballpark in the beginning. if a 4WD stock class does emerge then we'll make a smaller spur. for now however there hasn't been many tracks that run a 17.5 blinky 4WD.
(for reference the D413 comes with a 72T spur and the gearbox ratio is 43/13) Exotek now makes a spur kit with a separate spur and diff case piece, so replacing the spur is slightly easier (don't need to mess with the fluid). There is also a 68 tooth spur available for guys that are looking to run 17.5. Springs HPI/HB Part Number - Description/Rating (COLOR) #113059 - 1/10 BUGGY FRONT SPRING 52.3 G/MM (GREEN) #113060 - 1/10 BUGGY FRONT SPRING 54.4 G/MM (WHITE) #113061 - 1/10 BUGGY FRONT SPRING 56.7 G/MM (BLUE) #113062 - 1/10 BUGGY FRONT SPRING 59.1 G/MM (YELLOW) #113063 - 1/10 BUGGY FRONT SPRING 61.8 G/MM (GOLD) (Standard) #113064 - 1/10 BUGGY FRONT SPRING 64.8 G/MM (RED) #113065 - 1/10 BUGGY REAR SPRING 32.9 G/MM (GREEN) #113066 - 1/10 BUGGY REAR SPRING 34.0 G/MM (WHITE) #113067 - 1/10 BUGGY REAR SPRING 35.2 G/MM (BLUE) #113068 - 1/10 BUGGY REAR SPRING 36.4 G/MM (YELLOW) (Standard) #113069 - 1/10 BUGGY REAR SPRING 37.8 G/MM (GOLD) #113070 - 1/10 BUGGY REAR SPRING 39.2 G/MM (RED) Ty was running Kyosho springs right away due to the familiarity with them and the lack of availability of the HB springs. Now the springs are in stock pretty much everywhere and most people are running them (including Ty). I haven't seen a setup with anything lighter than Yellow/Yellow. Rims and Hex Rim Adapters Kyosho, Associated, Losi, etc all have very similar offset for rears these days, and with the included 12mm hex, they should all work. In the front, obviously D413 rims work, Losi 22 and 22-4 have the proper offset (22 rims are only 2mm narrower), and Associated 4WD fronts will work but end up in a slightly narrower width. Ty won the nationals with Associated offset rims, and has run 22 fronts since then. Kyosho 4WD fronts are very close and Yokomo 4WD fronts seem to work well too.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12715075)
The 22 front wheel is slightly narrower. The yellow wheel shown is a TLR-22 front, the white wheel is an HB D413 front.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1384192612 Ty uses PL #2734-04 http://prolineracing.com/wheels/velo...hite-wheels-22 The reason I chose the 22's offset is because it has a flat dish compared to the typical 4WD wheel which has a convex dish. The convex dish makes the wheel nut stick out further past the tire making it more prone to getting snagged on track pipes/borders. Also when going through tech the max width includes the wheel nuts so with the convex shaped dish you end up with a narrower front track width (center line distance between the two front tires) from the same maximum width (wheel nut to wheel nut). Pistons The kit comes with four sets of pistons, one set is blank, the other three are 4 hole: 1.2mm, 1.3mm, and 1.4mm. Multiple companies are making pistons with reeds (RCShox, VRP) and 2 hole 1.6mm and 1.7mm are popular. Diff Fluid Choice
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12976946)
I have multiple diffs pre-built so that I can make changes quickly. For the front I have a 10k and a 15k; center I have a 50k, 100k, and a 300k; rear I have a 5k and a 3k. For the most part I've left the 15k up front, for the center 90% of the time I have the 100k in but on a loose fresh track I put in the 50k, and when I'm feeling lucky about setting the car up to clear a giant quad I'd put in the 300k. The rear has been changing a lot. At the nats Ty ran 10k but it's been getting lower and lower the more we refine the setup. Currently I have 3k in the rear but at the Reedy Race Ty ran 2k.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13121740)
10/100/10 was the ROAR Nats setup which was a high grip track. That's what was published as the kit build setup because at the time the manual was being written that's what we knew. Later the setup evolved to a heavier front and lighter rear. The feel isn't drastically different, the 15/100/3 is just a bit more stable all around. For this car the center diff is the main component that changes the character of the car. As you can see the center diff stayed at 100 on both setups.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13130937)
I usually leave the F/R alone the go between 60-100-300 in the center. I have 100 most of the time but if the conditions are loose I go 60. If there's a huge quad I have trouble clearing then I go 300.
Steering Slop and Geometry Adjustments
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13160170)
the ackermann arms simply allows you to adjust the amount of ackermann steering geometry. i think we have a #3, #4, & #5. the higher the number the more ackermann; the lower the number the less ackermann (the kit comes with #4).
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13163633)
the +/- raises and lowers the rack 0.5mm for bump steer adjustment. if the + is facing up it is higher, with the - facing up the rack sits lower. you can also put shims under the rack if you need more than 0.5mm.
the dots are for ackermann adjustment. if you have the dot facing forward it pushes the ballstud further forward, giving you less ackermann and vice versa. similarly you can also use shims. i designed it this way in case if you want to run the ballstud far forward you don't have to use huge stack of shims and possibly run out of thread engagement.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13725009)
#5 produces more Ackermann so it's more stable on large, fast, sweeping tracks. #3 has less Ackermann which gives the car a more aggressive feel, good for tight twisty tracks with lots of 180s.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13630535)
HB slop = Racing Tolerance
What Else Do You Need With The Kit
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12995677)
you may need some tuning items like springs and for this car the carbon arm covers but I don't think any upgrades to make the car raceable are needed. the kit will already come with all the swaybars and all the various hinge pin mounts and even some blank pistons.
Different Shock Towers Explanation
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13160170)
the front shock towers have two options. they're basically the same but the option tower offers 'in between' hole locations.
the rear tower is a little more complex... if you notice the rear arms have two shock mounting holes that are not inline - the outer one is inline with the plane of the arm while the inner one is underslung providing a 'gullwing' geometry. the 'A' rear tower is optimized for the outer shock mount on the arm while the 'C' rear tower is optimized for the inner shock mount. the kit is supplied with the 'B' tower which in between the A & C towers. What Parts Break
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13107056)
it's not the hinge pins that bend, it's the mounting screws that bend and absorb the impacts. these are just M3x20 flat head screws. you can get a bag of them cheap.
so far on my car the things I've broken are the steering rack from repeatedly clipping a pipe coupler at high speed, a rear tower (the carbon piece) when somebody jumped the track and hit me full speed at the end of the straight, and a front shock shaft from a heavy head-on collision. I think on Ty's car he finally broke the shock towers (plastic part) on his practice car at the Cactus. but these parts though were from the original sample batch we got a year ago and we think that the cold and dry climate of Canada's winters made the parts slightly brittle after sitting all these months. the arm mounts have been replaced after wear from running on an abrasive surface. other than those I don't think anything else needed to be replaced on Ty's car. Increasing Arms Stiffness We know the D413 has "Signature HB Monocoque suspension arms for stiffness, strength and adjustability" but you can increase the stiffness without buying the carbon fiber plates.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13169310)
just normal tire CA. gluing the covers gives it some extra stiffness. for example if you glue the plastic cover it'll be stiffer than an unglued screwed plastic cover but not quite as stiff as screwed carbon cover.
Wing Mounts
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12614229)
it's a built in feature - you can run the mounts in a high or low wing configuration. high wing is more stable on the ground. low wing is more stable in the air during high wind conditions. it was very windy at the worlds coupled with some big jumps.
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12614666)
and.... each wing mount is held by an upper screw and a lower screw. you can adjust the wing angle by adding shims to one of the screw locations. you probably can't see it in the pictures by Ty has a 0.5mm shim on the lower screw to give the wing a little more angle of attack.
Weight with Shorty Pack
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 12600741)
I don't think I traded off any performance to gain durability. Definitely didn't sacrifice anything on suspension geometry or drivetrain. The one target I didn't quite hit was the minimum weight - the rules allow as low as 1613g but the D413 with a shorty weighs in around 1720g give or take. I tried to get it as close to minimum as I can but I would've had to skimp out on some strength to achieve it. Still though most of the competition weighs in close to 1800g and still has durability issues.
Maximum Battery Height
Originally Posted by T. Deguzman
(Post 13089320)
Originally Posted by erevo1*16
(Post 13088795)
Hey Torrance, (I'm sorry if I'm repeating a question)
Just looking around at the different options for battery packs at the moment... I clearly know and understand that it will fit a shorty, or a saddle... But could you maybe tell us what the measurement is from the chassis to the topdeck is. I've got some packs(that aren't roar approved.) That I'm curious to see if they are going to fit. They measure 69x46x31!!! They're thick little bricks.... 5700mAh (2s3p) By the looks of the pics it's going to be close. But I think the issue with fitting them in there is going to be the front mount of the rear triangulated tower brace.... Thanks again. Richard Lowe Euro Setup Setup from HPI Test Day, med-high grip astro D413 & Ty Tessmann Race Results Cactus Classic March 13-16 2014 2nd Place RedRC's Recap Videos for A1 A2 A3 Reedy Race January 29th 2014 3rd Place (results based on points with 2wd and 4wd combined) RedRC's Recap IFMAR Worlds September 13-29 2013 3rd Place NeoBuggy's Recap 4wd Recap Video Practice Day ROAR Nationals August 8-11 2013 1st Place NeoBuggy's Recap TQ run Video Often mentioned "Durability Testing" at the IFMAR World's Ty's interview at 5:55 and the incident at 6:15
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Seems like no other info has been given yet from HPI. Photo and info above were from HPI Racing.
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Nice ! Cant wait to see more..and a new sct!
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Originally Posted by H0LESH0T
(Post 12394515)
Seems like no other info has been given yet from HPI. Photo and info above were from HPI Racing.
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Interested to see what they have in store. :nod:
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If Losi won't release a new wheeler, at least HB looks like they will. I hope this will give the wheeler class a kick in the butt!
If Losi brings one out too... oooohhh man! Tracks may be seeking B and A mains! :D |
That's a crazy looking bulkhead and tower setup there.....
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Originally Posted by symmetricon
(Post 12394609)
That's a crazy looking bulkhead and tower setup there.....
I wonder why the body doesn't follow the modern cab forward trends? Hopefully prototype. |
Body looks cab fwd to me and very pretty as well. The front tower does look crazy tall almost like its from a stadium truck.
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Surely JC & PL will have a body shortly after its release.
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Almost looks like the same length shocks front and rear.
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Originally Posted by Badger5
(Post 12396474)
Almost looks like the same length shocks front and rear.
:batman: |
the body looks like the cyber 10b body..
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I hope it's priced good like the other hot bodies Buggies.
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Hope we see a little better support than we are currently
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with HPI/HB moving warehouses or whatever in japan, this were expected to be rough..
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Looking forward to 4wd 1/10 again soon...
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1 Attachment(s)
LiveRC has a pic of the new D4 up on their facebook page. Ty has a 19 lap run with it, the only one so far.
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Originally Posted by JosephBlack
(Post 12425508)
LiveRC has a pic of the new D4 up on their facebook page. Ty has a 19 lap run with it, the only one so far.
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Bye bye busted shock towers! I'm always intrigued with HB and always fail to pull the trigger. That may change, cant wait to see the rest of it.
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Now that looks cool! Need MOAR INFO!!
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Yea I may have to increase my HB fleet...ok I may have to create a HB fleet as right not I just have the one. :lol:
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photos
In my blog I made a collection of photos I found
JD & RACING BLOG http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OhvK0c9YAb...0/AT4_4792.jpg |
Looks pretty cool. Gunna keep my eyes on this one. Good luck at the Nat's Ty.
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anyone hear a rumor of a release date? :) i could use a 4x4 buggy to go with my blitz
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Originally Posted by JMURACN
(Post 12426362)
anyone hear a rumor of a release date? :) i could use a 4x4 buggy to go with my blitz
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I like the touring car suspension mounts for sure,might make arm changing pretty fast!:nod:
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looks dead sexy!
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Very unique shock caps..I cant believe a new idea...good job HB!
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(Atsushi hara voice) New buggy is HUGE GOOD!!
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Will definitely be getting into 4wd mod after seeing this car. Looks amazing. Can't wait
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http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2880/9...14db12e9_c.jpg
IMGP5508 by the208luke, on Flickr Check out more of my Pictures and Videos at Facebook.com/RCphotosvideos and YouTube.com/rcphotosvideos |
I just built a D8T and love the value and quality of Hotbodies RC's. If this little guy is priced right Im pretty sure I'll be adding another car to my collection! :)
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You're welcome :sneaky:
http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2013Race...AT4_4986-L.jpg Click here for full resolution! http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2013Race...AT4_4985-L.jpg Click here for full resolution! Pretty skunk works-looking to me! I love spy shots of prototype stuff! :p |
Originally Posted by weavty1
(Post 12429767)
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Looks like it has all electronics besides the servo on one side and a shorty pack on the other.
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Beat me too it.lol
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Originally Posted by weavty1
(Post 12429767)
You're welcome :sneaky:
http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2013Race...AT4_4986-L.jpg Click here for full resolution! http://gallery.neobuggy.net/2013Race...AT4_4985-L.jpg Click here for full resolution! Pretty skunk works-looking to me! I love spy shots of prototype stuff! :p |
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