Couger SV2 Thread
05-20-2012, 10:34 AM
#241
Hi, I want to give your setup a go in my son's buggy and I have a few questions, What rebound do you set the shocks at running the emuision shock setup and what is the STK plate for the front camber link, is this the standard kit one ?, also we would be running saddle packs in the rear setup, not a shorty lipo, would you make any changes to your setup for this.
Regards
Gary
Regards
Gary
The stock plate is the kit one, Im just not sure which one it is measurement wise. I did lots of testing with both battery configurations and the shorty lipo just felt the best. The saddles, for me, made the car jump and steer unpredictably but thats just my opinion, others may disagree.
With the emulsion setup Im at 0 rebound. Once you bleed them and you pump your shock a few times it should just push out a little bit. The bladder setup makes the car a bit twitchy and not as sure footed as an emulsion shock. Over bumps and jumps the car, with emulsion shocks, lands flatter and is overall more stable. Im sure Ill give the bladders a go one day but as of now the shocks are working so well this way that I dont see the reason to bother.
Also if you think your car is traction rolling in areas of the track you may want to lengthen the rear link slightly and go to the middle hole on the rear hub, I encountered this a few times but only on one section of the track where I was coming in too hot, you may not feel this at all however. But all in all the setup worked very well. My team mate Dave and I worked on the setup for the past two weeks but we are in the process of doing a few more things like playing with 5-hole pistons and the zero trail front steering hubs. Give it a go and report back, hope you enjoy the car.
Last edited by tonyv2382; 05-20-2012 at 12:50 PM.
05-20-2012, 05:43 PM
#242
Hey Gary,
The stock plate is the kit one, Im just not sure which one it is measurement wise. I did lots of testing with both battery configurations and the shorty lipo just felt the best. The saddles, for me, made the car jump and steer unpredictably but thats just my opinion, others may disagree.
With the emulsion setup Im at 0 rebound. Once you bleed them and you pump your shock a few times it should just push out a little bit. The bladder setup makes the car a bit twitchy and not as sure footed as an emulsion shock. Over bumps and jumps the car, with emulsion shocks, lands flatter and is overall more stable. Im sure Ill give the bladders a go one day but as of now the shocks are working so well this way that I dont see the reason to bother.
Also if you think your car is traction rolling in areas of the track you may want to lengthen the rear link slightly and go to the middle hole on the rear hub, I encountered this a few times but only on one section of the track where I was coming in too hot, you may not feel this at all however. But all in all the setup worked very well. My team mate Dave and I worked on the setup for the past two weeks but we are in the process of doing a few more things like playing with 5-hole pistons and the zero trail front steering hubs. Give it a go and report back, hope you enjoy the car.
The stock plate is the kit one, Im just not sure which one it is measurement wise. I did lots of testing with both battery configurations and the shorty lipo just felt the best. The saddles, for me, made the car jump and steer unpredictably but thats just my opinion, others may disagree.
With the emulsion setup Im at 0 rebound. Once you bleed them and you pump your shock a few times it should just push out a little bit. The bladder setup makes the car a bit twitchy and not as sure footed as an emulsion shock. Over bumps and jumps the car, with emulsion shocks, lands flatter and is overall more stable. Im sure Ill give the bladders a go one day but as of now the shocks are working so well this way that I dont see the reason to bother.
Also if you think your car is traction rolling in areas of the track you may want to lengthen the rear link slightly and go to the middle hole on the rear hub, I encountered this a few times but only on one section of the track where I was coming in too hot, you may not feel this at all however. But all in all the setup worked very well. My team mate Dave and I worked on the setup for the past two weeks but we are in the process of doing a few more things like playing with 5-hole pistons and the zero trail front steering hubs. Give it a go and report back, hope you enjoy the car.
Regards
Gary
05-20-2012, 10:41 PM
#243
Thanks, will give it a go on Tuesday avro, I agree with you on the shocks, they do seam twitchy with the bladder, our main problem is if he brakes before turn in the rear tends to rotate too much and very quickly, have tried a lot of different things, may be partly the way he is driving it, the track is decomposed granite, hard packed, get dusty off line but does hold a bit of a black groove, we have to use Proline hole shots at a up coming meeting, fronts are free, have been running AKA Rebar fronts but I am thinking they may have too much bite, he did like the feel of the JC Rips.
Regards
Gary
Regards
Gary
If all that doesnt work, try this...remove all the posts and get the moulded upper deck mounts(eliminating the need for the turnbuckle). Take the stock top deck, dremel it down to remove the rear ears and run it like that with no posts. This will give you a lot more flex which should equal more traction. Right now Im using the +8mm top deck and the car feels great. But if you dont have that piece, go with what I said...all you will need are the molded upper pivot mounts.
05-21-2012, 04:02 AM
#244
Tires are very specific to the surface, so go with what guys are running there at the track. Also make sure the brakes are not at 100% on the EPA on his remote. That may cause the rear to swing a bit much. Maybe bring it down a bit to have a more controlled braking effect. Also what we've noticed is when running too much anit-squat the rear over rotates. Off power my car would swing around way too much with full 4.5* anti squat, add 1.5mm of shims to bring it to 3* overall and you should be good. But again you may need to play with things here or there. The battery selection I found by far to be the biggest factor in how the car handled. With the shorty pack the car is locked, width wise positioned towards the rear.
If all that doesnt work, try this...remove all the posts and get the moulded upper deck mounts(eliminating the need for the turnbuckle). Take the stock top deck, dremel it down to remove the rear ears and run it like that with no posts. This will give you a lot more flex which should equal more traction. Right now Im using the +8mm top deck and the car feels great. But if you dont have that piece, go with what I said...all you will need are the molded upper pivot mounts.
If all that doesnt work, try this...remove all the posts and get the moulded upper deck mounts(eliminating the need for the turnbuckle). Take the stock top deck, dremel it down to remove the rear ears and run it like that with no posts. This will give you a lot more flex which should equal more traction. Right now Im using the +8mm top deck and the car feels great. But if you dont have that piece, go with what I said...all you will need are the molded upper pivot mounts.
Thanks for the info, we have the brakes at 85%, I do have the moulded top deck mounts, we did try that with no posts on Sunday, that did look a little better, I have put your setup in the buggy and it feels nice on the bench. by the way what oil do you use, schumacher ?, I put that in the shocks this time but for off road I normal use AE oil, for our onroad I use Schumacher, also how do you do your shocks, I cut the bladder to use the seal ring, pushed the piston to the top, ran a knife blade accross the top of the shock to remove extra oil and screwed the cap on, is this correct ?
Thanks againg for your help.
Regards
Gary
05-21-2012, 08:34 AM
#245
Hi Tony
Thanks for the info, we have the brakes at 85%, I do have the moulded top deck mounts, we did try that with no posts on Sunday, that did look a little better, I have put your setup in the buggy and it feels nice on the bench. by the way what oil do you use, schumacher ?, I put that in the shocks this time but for off road I normal use AE oil, for our onroad I use Schumacher, also how do you do your shocks, I cut the bladder to use the seal ring, pushed the piston to the top, ran a knife blade accross the top of the shock to remove extra oil and screwed the cap on, is this correct ?
Thanks againg for your help.
Regards
Gary
Thanks for the info, we have the brakes at 85%, I do have the moulded top deck mounts, we did try that with no posts on Sunday, that did look a little better, I have put your setup in the buggy and it feels nice on the bench. by the way what oil do you use, schumacher ?, I put that in the shocks this time but for off road I normal use AE oil, for our onroad I use Schumacher, also how do you do your shocks, I cut the bladder to use the seal ring, pushed the piston to the top, ran a knife blade accross the top of the shock to remove extra oil and screwed the cap on, is this correct ?
Thanks againg for your help.
Regards
Gary
05-21-2012, 10:07 AM
#246
Tech Adept
Hi Tony
Thanks for the info, we have the brakes at 85%, I do have the moulded top deck mounts, we did try that with no posts on Sunday, that did look a little better, I have put your setup in the buggy and it feels nice on the bench. by the way what oil do you use, schumacher ?, I put that in the shocks this time but for off road I normal use AE oil, for our onroad I use Schumacher, also how do you do your shocks, I cut the bladder to use the seal ring, pushed the piston to the top, ran a knife blade accross the top of the shock to remove extra oil and screwed the cap on, is this correct ?
Thanks againg for your help.
Regards
Gary
Thanks for the info, we have the brakes at 85%, I do have the moulded top deck mounts, we did try that with no posts on Sunday, that did look a little better, I have put your setup in the buggy and it feels nice on the bench. by the way what oil do you use, schumacher ?, I put that in the shocks this time but for off road I normal use AE oil, for our onroad I use Schumacher, also how do you do your shocks, I cut the bladder to use the seal ring, pushed the piston to the top, ran a knife blade accross the top of the shock to remove extra oil and screwed the cap on, is this correct ?
Thanks againg for your help.
Regards
Gary
Sorry was just browsing the thread today and saw this, and sorry to interrupt Tony, but I had another thought, (all else being equal) if the car has got too much turn in / steering or the car gets twitchy/loose in the rear under breaking you might want to run less droop in the rear, I.E. short ball cups instead of long, (basically a shorter rear shock) this can help with both stability and traction rolling as it allows less of the weight to transfer to the front wheels under breaking, as it sort uses the rear wheels/tires as ballast to keep the rear end a little more planted. I know it often sounds counter intuitive, people often think that for more rear grip you need more suspension travel, and to a degree that's certainly true, but usually some of the other effects of more rear droop, can be a looser rear end under breaking / turn in, the car wanting to "trip"/twitch more over smaller bumps/ruts (in certain situations), and being more prone to traction roll.
Obviously, as tony and you were discussing, tires are usually 80% of getting are car working for a specific track so I would start there, is the upcoming event at the same track? In other, words do they usually run hole shots on the track your on now? Also, compound is prob. at least as, or even more important then tread pattern or carcass const. etc. so I.e. M2 hole shots are completely different then M4.
Hope that helps
05-21-2012, 10:27 AM
#247
Hi Gary,
Sorry was just browsing the thread today and saw this, and sorry to interrupt Tony, but I had another thought, (all else being equal) if the car has got too much turn in / steering or the car gets twitchy/loose in the rear under breaking you might want to run less droop in the rear, I.E. short ball cups instead of long, (basically a shorter rear shock) this can help with both stability and traction rolling as it allows less of the weight to transfer to the front wheels under breaking, as it sort uses the rear wheels/tires as ballast to keep the rear end a little more planted. I know it often sounds counter intuitive, people often think that for more rear grip you need more suspension travel, and to a degree that's certainly true, but usually some of the other effects of more rear droop, can be a looser rear end under breaking / turn in, the car wanting to "trip"/twitch more over smaller bumps/ruts (in certain situations), and being more prone to traction roll.
Obviously, as tony and you were discussing, tires are usually 80% of getting are car working for a specific track so I would start there, is the upcoming event at the same track? In other, words do they usually run hole shots on the track your on now? Also, compound is prob. at least as, or even more important then tread pattern or carcass const. etc. so I.e. M2 hole shots are completely different then M4.
Hope that helps
Sorry was just browsing the thread today and saw this, and sorry to interrupt Tony, but I had another thought, (all else being equal) if the car has got too much turn in / steering or the car gets twitchy/loose in the rear under breaking you might want to run less droop in the rear, I.E. short ball cups instead of long, (basically a shorter rear shock) this can help with both stability and traction rolling as it allows less of the weight to transfer to the front wheels under breaking, as it sort uses the rear wheels/tires as ballast to keep the rear end a little more planted. I know it often sounds counter intuitive, people often think that for more rear grip you need more suspension travel, and to a degree that's certainly true, but usually some of the other effects of more rear droop, can be a looser rear end under breaking / turn in, the car wanting to "trip"/twitch more over smaller bumps/ruts (in certain situations), and being more prone to traction roll.
Obviously, as tony and you were discussing, tires are usually 80% of getting are car working for a specific track so I would start there, is the upcoming event at the same track? In other, words do they usually run hole shots on the track your on now? Also, compound is prob. at least as, or even more important then tread pattern or carcass const. etc. so I.e. M2 hole shots are completely different then M4.
Hope that helps
05-21-2012, 02:01 PM
#248
Hi Gary,
Sorry was just browsing the thread today and saw this, and sorry to interrupt Tony, but I had another thought, (all else being equal) if the car has got too much turn in / steering or the car gets twitchy/loose in the rear under breaking you might want to run less droop in the rear, I.E. short ball cups instead of long, (basically a shorter rear shock) this can help with both stability and traction rolling as it allows less of the weight to transfer to the front wheels under breaking, as it sort uses the rear wheels/tires as ballast to keep the rear end a little more planted. I know it often sounds counter intuitive, people often think that for more rear grip you need more suspension travel, and to a degree that's certainly true, but usually some of the other effects of more rear droop, can be a looser rear end under breaking / turn in, the car wanting to "trip"/twitch more over smaller bumps/ruts (in certain situations), and being more prone to traction roll.
Obviously, as tony and you were discussing, tires are usually 80% of getting are car working for a specific track so I would start there, is the upcoming event at the same track? In other, words do they usually run hole shots on the track your on now? Also, compound is prob. at least as, or even more important then tread pattern or carcass const. etc. so I.e. M2 hole shots are completely different then M4.
Hope that helps
Sorry was just browsing the thread today and saw this, and sorry to interrupt Tony, but I had another thought, (all else being equal) if the car has got too much turn in / steering or the car gets twitchy/loose in the rear under breaking you might want to run less droop in the rear, I.E. short ball cups instead of long, (basically a shorter rear shock) this can help with both stability and traction rolling as it allows less of the weight to transfer to the front wheels under breaking, as it sort uses the rear wheels/tires as ballast to keep the rear end a little more planted. I know it often sounds counter intuitive, people often think that for more rear grip you need more suspension travel, and to a degree that's certainly true, but usually some of the other effects of more rear droop, can be a looser rear end under breaking / turn in, the car wanting to "trip"/twitch more over smaller bumps/ruts (in certain situations), and being more prone to traction roll.
Obviously, as tony and you were discussing, tires are usually 80% of getting are car working for a specific track so I would start there, is the upcoming event at the same track? In other, words do they usually run hole shots on the track your on now? Also, compound is prob. at least as, or even more important then tread pattern or carcass const. etc. so I.e. M2 hole shots are completely different then M4.
Hope that helps
Yes we had tried less droop in the rear, had tried just about everything,
, as for tires the track is a near new surface, we have to run hole shots M3 there in 3 weeks, I don't feel they are the best tire for the new surface but that is what has been picked, I should be able to borrow some shorty lipo's to try as well, how do you secure them in the back position by the way. Hope to get out to the track today with my son, as long as the rain stays away, will let you know how it all goes.Regards
Gary
05-21-2012, 06:59 PM
#249
Hi
Yes we had tried less droop in the rear, had tried just about everything,, as for tires the track is a near new surface, we have to run hole shots M3 there in 3 weeks, I don't feel they are the best tire for the new surface but that is what has been picked, I should be able to borrow some shorty lipo's to try as well, how do you secure them in the back position by the way. Hope to get out to the track today with my son, as long as the rain stays away, will let you know how it all goes.
Regards
Gary
Yes we had tried less droop in the rear, had tried just about everything,
, as for tires the track is a near new surface, we have to run hole shots M3 there in 3 weeks, I don't feel they are the best tire for the new surface but that is what has been picked, I should be able to borrow some shorty lipo's to try as well, how do you secure them in the back position by the way. Hope to get out to the track today with my son, as long as the rain stays away, will let you know how it all goes.Regards
Gary
Last edited by maizer; 05-22-2012 at 05:21 AM.
05-21-2012, 07:05 PM
#250
05-22-2012, 05:55 AM
#251
Regards
Gary
Last edited by GSM Storm; 05-22-2012 at 06:19 AM.
05-22-2012, 06:03 AM
#252
All I do to bleed them is fill the shock to about the rim of the body, push the shaft all the way in, screw the top on 2 turns and then angle it at 45* with the bleeder hole facing upwards, then I screw the shock body till its tight. This should give you no rebound or minimal rebound at best. I use Losi oil as that is whats readily available to me at my LHS. It works really well. And before you set your ride height and all make sure you pump your shocks till the oil is emulsified within the shock to get a true reading. Im sure you will like the setup. But above all it must be used with the shorty pack.
All I can say is "you are the man", what a setup, and you were right, using the saddle pack setup was better than we had but using the shorty lipo, wow, your setup was not that much different than what I had, you had shorter rear camber links and the emulsified shock setup and the shocks in more on the tower.
We ran the same front tires as your setup with standard inserts, what did you fine using the AKA inserts ?
If you are ever in Brisbane, Australia I will buy you a beer
Thanks again for the help
Regards
Gary
Last edited by GSM Storm; 05-22-2012 at 06:13 AM.
05-22-2012, 08:29 AM
#253
Well Tony
All I can say is "you are the man", what a setup, and you were right, using the saddle pack setup was better than we had but using the shorty lipo, wow, your setup was not that much different than what I had, you had shorter rear camber links and the emulsified shock setup and the shocks in more on the tower.
We ran the same front tires as your setup with standard inserts, what did you fine using the AKA inserts ?
If you are ever in Brisbane, Australia I will buy you a beer
Thanks again for the help
Regards
Gary
All I can say is "you are the man", what a setup, and you were right, using the saddle pack setup was better than we had but using the shorty lipo, wow, your setup was not that much different than what I had, you had shorter rear camber links and the emulsified shock setup and the shocks in more on the tower.
We ran the same front tires as your setup with standard inserts, what did you fine using the AKA inserts ?
If you are ever in Brisbane, Australia I will buy you a beer
Thanks again for the help
Regards
Gary
As for the aka fronts I just like the fact that the tire spins truer with closed cell front foam than with a standard front. Also the standard fronts tend to break down real fast and before you know it your front tires are useless and deforming on every corner. In the beginning the closed cells may feel a bit "pushy" on corner entry, but once they break in after a few runs they are real good. You will find varying opinions on that topic Im sure
Gary Im happy it all worked. I think its a great starting point and if anything you can tune from there. Good luck!
05-22-2012, 01:50 PM
#254
I have to say, this car is sick. If I hear about my lhs carrying parts for these I will absolutely get one next winter or in the coming months... I race with dave and tony at irh and currently have a dailed b4.1 but I actually would grab this...
I drove dave's and it was so great, i wasn't pulling quick laps like my car but of course its not setup for me...but still I loved the way it jumped, landed especially. The cornering also, its so quick, I would say just as good as the a.e as far as coming through the turn. Anything you guys you guys on this thread have ran into as far as issues? I mean the car looks so well built and the ease of everything amazed me.
Damn now i need another kit
I drove dave's and it was so great, i wasn't pulling quick laps like my car but of course its not setup for me...but still I loved the way it jumped, landed especially. The cornering also, its so quick, I would say just as good as the a.e as far as coming through the turn. Anything you guys you guys on this thread have ran into as far as issues? I mean the car looks so well built and the ease of everything amazed me.
Damn now i need another kit
05-22-2012, 02:24 PM
#255
So I am looking for a few pointers on this buggy. It's my first 2wd buggy, and I honestly don't know what I am getting into with this. Most guys at my track run 22s and B4.1s. so I have no parts support. I run on a wet clay indoor surface, and I am looking for advice from what motor/esc to use, to what shock pistons work best. Thanks!
. I run on a wet clay indoor surface, and I am looking for advice from what motor/esc to use, to what shock pistons work best. Thanks!