1LikesTLR 22T Thread
10-01-2013, 06:22 PM
#4996
Suspended
Hello everyone. I want to start off by saying that I'm just coming back from a 12 year absence from this hobby and I started racing again about 3 months ago. Stock slash and 17.5 stadium truck (open speedo though).
I bought a TLR22T kit and put it together and off of stock I have the following:
MIP Bypass shocks
TLR front suspension pivot
Exotech steering rack
5 deg caster hub carrier
Aluminum front kick and 25 deg brass weight on the front
All turnbuckles are traxxas captured turnbuckles other than the steering linkage
Avid slipper
TLR gear diff
Aluminum rear hubs
MIP CVD shafts
I have it in the mid motor layout as I run on carpet indoor with it and the gear diff has 3000 weight associate diff oil in it. I have Schumacher stagger ribs in the front with the inside and outside rows cut off and I have Schumacher X pins in the rear. All on AKA red inserts and TLR rims. When I enter a corner, lets say a 90 deg right hand turn, when I let off the power it enters the corner nicely, just a bit fast but not on the edge, as I cost through the corner about mid corner half the time I get a snap over steer that puts me almost to 180 deg from where I was going. It's a fast loss of control and being so many years away from this sport I know I'm not as smooth as I should be but I'm in control.
I have about 1.5 deg toe out in front and about 1 deg camber. 30deg total caster (25 on the kick and 5 on the hubs) Rear toe is 3deg in and I'm running the lrc 3 deg rear hanger. Suspension geometry isn't all messed up but without taking a picture I can say that my rear camber links are higher in the roll center.
At my local track there is a regional sponsored driver that told me to take it out of mid motor and put it in rear motor and to take the 3k diff fluid out of it and put in 30k. Now I know he's a better driver than I am but this goes against everything I've ever heard about mid motor and gear diff setup for carpet. His reasoning was that the stadium trucks don't need steering and that they have too much already so a rear motor and higher diff oil will take my snap over steer out. The over steer happens between costing and just starting to apply power. I'm not gunning it, I might be 1/4 throttle and this is a small, tight technical carpet track and I'm running boost and timing so it's a quick truck.
Soooo... What do you think my next steps are to solving this? I have the rear motor parts still thank god.
I bought a TLR22T kit and put it together and off of stock I have the following:
MIP Bypass shocks
TLR front suspension pivot
Exotech steering rack
5 deg caster hub carrier
Aluminum front kick and 25 deg brass weight on the front
All turnbuckles are traxxas captured turnbuckles other than the steering linkage
Avid slipper
TLR gear diff
Aluminum rear hubs
MIP CVD shafts
I have it in the mid motor layout as I run on carpet indoor with it and the gear diff has 3000 weight associate diff oil in it. I have Schumacher stagger ribs in the front with the inside and outside rows cut off and I have Schumacher X pins in the rear. All on AKA red inserts and TLR rims. When I enter a corner, lets say a 90 deg right hand turn, when I let off the power it enters the corner nicely, just a bit fast but not on the edge, as I cost through the corner about mid corner half the time I get a snap over steer that puts me almost to 180 deg from where I was going. It's a fast loss of control and being so many years away from this sport I know I'm not as smooth as I should be but I'm in control.
I have about 1.5 deg toe out in front and about 1 deg camber. 30deg total caster (25 on the kick and 5 on the hubs) Rear toe is 3deg in and I'm running the lrc 3 deg rear hanger. Suspension geometry isn't all messed up but without taking a picture I can say that my rear camber links are higher in the roll center.
At my local track there is a regional sponsored driver that told me to take it out of mid motor and put it in rear motor and to take the 3k diff fluid out of it and put in 30k. Now I know he's a better driver than I am but this goes against everything I've ever heard about mid motor and gear diff setup for carpet. His reasoning was that the stadium trucks don't need steering and that they have too much already so a rear motor and higher diff oil will take my snap over steer out. The over steer happens between costing and just starting to apply power. I'm not gunning it, I might be 1/4 throttle and this is a small, tight technical carpet track and I'm running boost and timing so it's a quick truck.
Soooo... What do you think my next steps are to solving this? I have the rear motor parts still thank god.
in my opinion, just like with any change, parts should be changed one at a time so if something does lead to a problem you know what to remove to revert back to the stock part and get things back to normal.
also boost and timing is not something the uninitiated should be just doing out of practice, but instead out of experience so you know how it makes your car behave. in my experience small, tight, technical tracks are where boost and timing are of little advantage.
Sorry for the late reply. I own my own business so it's tough for me to get in front of my car with the business, wife and kid. Anyway, here we go.
Ride height is about 1" sorry for the lack of sure numbers here, the car is put away right now. Ride height is pretty level though if not exactly level.
Springs in the front are Losi White
Springs in the rear are Losi Yellow
I'm using MIP realshocks blue inserts only in front and rear. Valve is on the bottom for rebound not on the top for compression. The jumps that are in this track can be massive so I wanted as much pack as I can get on the compression and a faster rebound but maybe i'm wrong. Please advise.
27.5 weight front oil
30 weight rear oil
Gear diff at 3000
I've cut off the outer most and inner most rows of tread on the shumacher stagger rib tires, but I can cut off more if you think it will work. I see other guys that have it down to just the inner 3 ribs and the rest are cut off.
I also noticed on Friday when racing that my rear tires have wear only on the outside half of the rear tires not the whole tire. I'm using the X pin shumacher so from the X down the middle to the outside are getting worn but the X to the inside of the rear tires are basically brand new but I'm really not running any camber in the rear. It's like .5 deg inward camber on the rear tires if that.
Again, running on carpet with plywood jumps indoors on a tight track. no bumps but he does put in the occasional "rough carpet" in sections. The track is not available during the week to practice at and no other places in the twin cities where I live run carpet to practice at so going to an outdoor dirt track I don't feel, will help me with figuring out my setup. The most time I have is about 1 to 2 hours before racing then the 2 quals, some "practice" times between events that are too packed to really rip around and practice at and then the mains. So I'm desperate to get some help here.
Again, one of the locally sponsored guys here said that really no "pro" runs mid motor stadium truck because they don't need the steering but I get some of vehicle dynamics and don't feel that a rear motor setup will help in this situation. I feel that I have a bad setup in something like oil in shocks, springs or alignment.
He also said to pretty much lock up my diff which again, seems contrary to all that I've read about running on carpet where you pretty much want to run an open diff. I've even thought that 3000 may be too much but when I heard that I need help. i'm totally lost now. I don't have any extra weights anywhere on the truck but I do have the weight kit I can put on. Saddle packs so the batteries are pretty much in the middle. Servo and receiver up front, but it's a futaba receiver so it's about 6 grams or maybe 8 grams. ESC is on the battery brace in back by the motor.
Ride height is about 1" sorry for the lack of sure numbers here, the car is put away right now. Ride height is pretty level though if not exactly level.
Springs in the front are Losi White
Springs in the rear are Losi Yellow
I'm using MIP realshocks blue inserts only in front and rear. Valve is on the bottom for rebound not on the top for compression. The jumps that are in this track can be massive so I wanted as much pack as I can get on the compression and a faster rebound but maybe i'm wrong. Please advise.
27.5 weight front oil
30 weight rear oil
Gear diff at 3000
I've cut off the outer most and inner most rows of tread on the shumacher stagger rib tires, but I can cut off more if you think it will work. I see other guys that have it down to just the inner 3 ribs and the rest are cut off.
I also noticed on Friday when racing that my rear tires have wear only on the outside half of the rear tires not the whole tire. I'm using the X pin shumacher so from the X down the middle to the outside are getting worn but the X to the inside of the rear tires are basically brand new but I'm really not running any camber in the rear. It's like .5 deg inward camber on the rear tires if that.
Again, running on carpet with plywood jumps indoors on a tight track. no bumps but he does put in the occasional "rough carpet" in sections. The track is not available during the week to practice at and no other places in the twin cities where I live run carpet to practice at so going to an outdoor dirt track I don't feel, will help me with figuring out my setup. The most time I have is about 1 to 2 hours before racing then the 2 quals, some "practice" times between events that are too packed to really rip around and practice at and then the mains. So I'm desperate to get some help here.
Again, one of the locally sponsored guys here said that really no "pro" runs mid motor stadium truck because they don't need the steering but I get some of vehicle dynamics and don't feel that a rear motor setup will help in this situation. I feel that I have a bad setup in something like oil in shocks, springs or alignment.
He also said to pretty much lock up my diff which again, seems contrary to all that I've read about running on carpet where you pretty much want to run an open diff. I've even thought that 3000 may be too much but when I heard that I need help. i'm totally lost now. I don't have any extra weights anywhere on the truck but I do have the weight kit I can put on. Saddle packs so the batteries are pretty much in the middle. Servo and receiver up front, but it's a futaba receiver so it's about 6 grams or maybe 8 grams. ESC is on the battery brace in back by the motor.
and finally, I think it's very poor advice you've received on the gear oil. 1000-3000 is rather typical. 30,000 is just going to lock the diff and exaggerate the problems you're already experiencing.
10-01-2013, 06:35 PM
#4997
Thank you! Parts on the vehicle were "suggested" by people, so this is what I wanted to know where to start. As for the light oil and valves, I was reading RC Handling on the internet and trying to apply some of the things I read there with regards to how the car was handling I was experimenting, looks like I went the wrong way. I'll switch out the steering rack and put the oil / springs / valves up a notch or two per your suggestions. I also figured the 30k diff oil was weird because pretty much everyone I read says open diff, that's why I decided to post, after hearing that I was completely lost.
10-01-2013, 06:41 PM
#4998
Suspended
Thank you! Parts on the vehicle were "suggested" by people, so this is what I wanted to know where to start. As for the light oil and valves, I was reading RC Handling on the internet and trying to apply some of the things I read there with regards to how the car was handling I was experimenting, looks like I went the wrong way. I'll switch out the steering rack and put the oil / springs / valves up a notch or two per your suggestions. I also figured the 30k diff oil was weird because pretty much everyone I read says open diff, that's why I decided to post, after hearing that I was completely lost.
found some set-ups you might want to compare to your own, including some on carpet > www (dot) petitrc.com/setup/losi/SetupSheetsLosiTwentyTwoT.html
one other thing I noticed was that you were using AKA red closed cell inserts, and it would be my advice being as the Schumacher tires are already very stiff to run a softer insert like standard white foams. running those harder inserts are just making your hard tires that much stiffer.
10-07-2013, 09:33 AM
#5004
so i ran the 22t in midship on med to high bite and wow!
Better on power, especially in the sweeper it held the line like a tc
It also jumped much flatter
however didn't rotate as well on the one 180
So if you track has good traction and no 180s midship is way to go
Lots of 180s and tight track rear motor is better
Better on power, especially in the sweeper it held the line like a tc
It also jumped much flatter
however didn't rotate as well on the one 180
So if you track has good traction and no 180s midship is way to go
Lots of 180s and tight track rear motor is better
10-07-2013, 08:02 PM
#5010
Fivepointnine-
are you on-power or off-power when it breaks loose?
I run Caspers set up on my car, with a few tweeks.
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...sper_20120924/
are you on-power or off-power when it breaks loose?
I run Caspers set up on my car, with a few tweeks.
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/se...sper_20120924/