Tune With Camber Links
#1006
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,846
That make sense but if you think about it what we have now sucks anyway!!
My pistons offer initial pack and hard pack on compression and quicker rebound, I bet some combo will work! I have the system just need to apply it and play around. once i get a good base tune i can start playing with the dual springs and see what happens! In RC you dont know unless you try!
My pistons offer initial pack and hard pack on compression and quicker rebound, I bet some combo will work! I have the system just need to apply it and play around. once i get a good base tune i can start playing with the dual springs and see what happens! In RC you dont know unless you try!
#1007
I agree. For your pistons I would like to see some type of very soft spring- I mean very, very soft- between the two pistons halves to ensure that it stays open in all but high shaft speed shocks movements. My over analyzing brain keeps thinking that at some point the top piston will be closed when I want/need it open. Just my thoughts. Until then, keep trying to balance out between handling and jumping as is. 

Trust me i have thought about it time and time again but there is only .5mm between the halves. But you can control it to some extent via the rebound holes. on a hard landing the pistons "hydrolock" thus preventing bottoming out. If you drill a 1mm aux hole in the rebound piston the Hydrolock lessens. only problem is you would spend alot of time and money testing and tuning just for it all to go out the window if you change tracks.
It relatively easy to design the spring piston but i would then have to change the shock shafts to accommodate the size. There are just too many different application for that to be feasible. so we are stuck with compromise!!
#1008
Tech Adept
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 118
For simplicity sake, assume you have two 10 lb/in springs. Assuming you apply a 10 force to one of the springs, it will compress 1 inch. Now stack them, and apply that same 10 lb force. The bottom spring now has 10 additional pounds on it so it compresses 1 inch. The top spring also has 10 additional pounds of force on it so it compresses 1 inch. This means your stack compressed 2 inches from 10 pounds of force which is a 5 lb/in equivalent.
This is why a longer spring that is wound exactly the same as a shorter one will be softer. Each coil deflects the same amount for a given load, but you have more coils on the longer spring so your total deflection is greater.
Using your example above and applying 10 pounds of force, you get the 1 inch from the 10 lbs/in spring and 0.5 inches for the 20 lbs/in spring for a total of 1.5 inches which you correctly calculated as 6.67 lbs/in.
Where dual rate springs react differently that simply using a single spring is when the softer spring exceeds its ability to compress linearly (overly simplified: it gets flattened and can't compress anymore), then any additional force is only compressing the stiffer spring. In the 10/20 lbs/in example you get 6.67 lbs/in until the 10 lb spring fully compresses, then you get 20 lbs/in. It is not quite that linear in the real world, but this should give you an understanding of what is going on.
-Chocula
This is why a longer spring that is wound exactly the same as a shorter one will be softer. Each coil deflects the same amount for a given load, but you have more coils on the longer spring so your total deflection is greater.
Using your example above and applying 10 pounds of force, you get the 1 inch from the 10 lbs/in spring and 0.5 inches for the 20 lbs/in spring for a total of 1.5 inches which you correctly calculated as 6.67 lbs/in.
Where dual rate springs react differently that simply using a single spring is when the softer spring exceeds its ability to compress linearly (overly simplified: it gets flattened and can't compress anymore), then any additional force is only compressing the stiffer spring. In the 10/20 lbs/in example you get 6.67 lbs/in until the 10 lb spring fully compresses, then you get 20 lbs/in. It is not quite that linear in the real world, but this should give you an understanding of what is going on.
-Chocula
#1009
I have an interesting little dilemma. I have an RC10B4.1 with Kyosho velvet shocks and the RCRD +12mm chassis (long wheel base). It's typically very stable, especially while jumping. I recently ran on my back yard track after it had rained in the morning (perfect track condition) and did a bit of RC tuning to try to maximize corner speed under those conditions. After quite a bit of tinkering, I ended up only removing one washer from under the inner ball stud in the rear. The car was pretty dialed at that point under those conditions.
Since then, the track has dried out and we have been adding some more technical rhythm sections and gnarlier jumps. Basically the track is slicker and I need to get out of the corners to clear the bigger jumps. I'm trying to set the track up similar to what we run on at the local tracks. With the same setup under the dry conditions, the rear end is pretty loose. And to confound that, I have a pretty substantial on throttle push. When braking for the hairpin at the end of the straight, the rear end wants to come around the front. To deal with this, I adjusted the ESC's brakes and added a single additional limiter to the back shocks. This helped a bit. I guess the car just feels a bit out of balance at this point. It doesn't seem to want to rotate easily for hairpins but when it does, it tends to over rotate and I have a hard time getting it squared back up again. When I over rotate I can get back on the gas a bit and it quickly flips from oversteer to the aforementioned understeer. I'm gonna keep tinkering with it under these conditions but does anyone have any suggestions?
Since then, the track has dried out and we have been adding some more technical rhythm sections and gnarlier jumps. Basically the track is slicker and I need to get out of the corners to clear the bigger jumps. I'm trying to set the track up similar to what we run on at the local tracks. With the same setup under the dry conditions, the rear end is pretty loose. And to confound that, I have a pretty substantial on throttle push. When braking for the hairpin at the end of the straight, the rear end wants to come around the front. To deal with this, I adjusted the ESC's brakes and added a single additional limiter to the back shocks. This helped a bit. I guess the car just feels a bit out of balance at this point. It doesn't seem to want to rotate easily for hairpins but when it does, it tends to over rotate and I have a hard time getting it squared back up again. When I over rotate I can get back on the gas a bit and it quickly flips from oversteer to the aforementioned understeer. I'm gonna keep tinkering with it under these conditions but does anyone have any suggestions?
#1010
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 250
guys I have a losi scte truck I have this issue that the rear doesnt bounce back up if I push down on it . the front is fine it will come back up easy . do I need to run heavier spring in the rear or is running it like this the proper way ? I run it mainly on loose loamy tracks .
#1011
guys I have a losi scte truck I have this issue that the rear doesnt bounce back up if I push down on it . the front is fine it will come back up easy . do I need to run heavier spring in the rear or is running it like this the proper way ? I run it mainly on loose loamy tracks .
#1014
Have you found spring balance yet according to the methods described in this thread? Sounds like your springs in the back might be a bit too soft. One of the things I have discovered is that when you actually do find a balanced set of springs, the rears are invariably stiffer than what most folks recommend. I've driven the cars this way and they typically handle pretty well and feel pretty balanced. If your springs in the back are too light it will have to overcome the weight of the car (not insignificant with an SCTE) and the resistance of the oil from movement. After you have found the balanced springs you should start with 30 wt oil (or something like that, its not critical where you start) and set your ride height front and rear.
#1015
Bds;
It seems like you are having issues with to much weight transfer, id like to know how much anti squat your running. One thing that should help overall is to move the motor as far forward as possible, (I.e bigger pinion smaller spur). And adding just a bit of toe in should help your corner entry.
It seems like you are having issues with to much weight transfer, id like to know how much anti squat your running. One thing that should help overall is to move the motor as far forward as possible, (I.e bigger pinion smaller spur). And adding just a bit of toe in should help your corner entry.
#1016
Trust me i have thought about it time and time again but there is only .5mm between the halves. But you can control it to some extent via the rebound holes. on a hard landing the pistons "hydrolock" thus preventing bottoming out. If you drill a 1mm aux hole in the rebound piston the Hydrolock lessens. only problem is you would spend alot of time and money testing and tuning just for it all to go out the window if you change tracks.
It relatively easy to design the spring piston but i would then have to change the shock shafts to accommodate the size. There are just too many different application for that to be feasible. so we are stuck with compromise!!
It relatively easy to design the spring piston but i would then have to change the shock shafts to accommodate the size. There are just too many different application for that to be feasible. so we are stuck with compromise!!
#1017
I'm running 1° of anti-squat at this point. It felt like too much weight transfer to me too. Its weird to watch it indecisively move back and forth between the front end taking over and the back end taking over.
#1018
1° really should be OK for our tracks, play with your motor position before changing your squat. Shimming the rear hubs back may also mellow it out a bit.
And don't overlook tires, that's 80% of handling. For example pine city likes green dd's or flip outs or ifmar pins until it grooves then super soft impacts or green hybrids, this is for my 2wd buggy rear. But then if the temps get above 80°-90°f and depending on moisture swap the m4s for m3's swap the super soft aka's for soft's but green jconcepts seem be okay. Usually green rips are hard to beat. But the game changes with stadium truck.
And don't overlook tires, that's 80% of handling. For example pine city likes green dd's or flip outs or ifmar pins until it grooves then super soft impacts or green hybrids, this is for my 2wd buggy rear. But then if the temps get above 80°-90°f and depending on moisture swap the m4s for m3's swap the super soft aka's for soft's but green jconcepts seem be okay. Usually green rips are hard to beat. But the game changes with stadium truck.
Last edited by jsinclair; 08-13-2012 at 04:13 PM.
#1019
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 250
Have you found spring balance yet according to the methods described in this thread? Sounds like your springs in the back might be a bit too soft. One of the things I have discovered is that when you actually do find a balanced set of springs, the rears are invariably stiffer than what most folks recommend. I've driven the cars this way and they typically handle pretty well and feel pretty balanced. If your springs in the back are too light it will have to overcome the weight of the car (not insignificant with an SCTE) and the resistance of the oil from movement. After you have found the balanced springs you should start with 30 wt oil (or something like that, its not critical where you start) and set your ride height front and rear.
I'll put in harder springs and check everything again and report back.
Thanks for the suggestions
#1020
I'm in the process of making a néw chassis for my 4wd 1/10 buggy. What f/r weight balance do you guys try to obtain? Right now its about 45/55 and it seems to do OK. I just want to get it as close as I can the first time as there won't be much room when I'm done.



65Likes