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Should racers be required to move out of stock at a certain level?

Should racers be required to move out of stock at a certain level?

Old 07-23-2013, 11:36 AM
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also...i'm not trying to be a jerk. your "side"/argument/reasoning/etc are spread out and not organized. and when i give examples and reasons to one thing, you dont seem to respond fully (are you in politics?).... i'm not picking on you... just trying to figure out what you are really looking for.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:39 AM
  #62  
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Jack Carter


Seen it all before ....

A guy from stock takes on mod only to find he has still not learned to control the extra power ..


Then when ever a mod racer goes to stock he usually dominates ....

Why is this so ?

Because its easier to step down to a slower motor then stepping up to more power & a faster motor ....


So much for the your stock is harder , takes more skill ect .
That is just a story with no back up to prove.

Fact :
No stock racer's are dominating Mod anywhere ...
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jackcarter3 View Post
I can see some of your points. I don't run stock. I think it's boring. I prefer mod. When I tried stock, it was a lot harder to get fast lap times. It was a lot harder to get through the rhythm sections. The gaps had to be hit exact and the corner speed had to be up or you were coming up short. Mod, well you can just throttle it. I've been racing a long time and I personally think you have to be a better driver to go fast in stock where as mod a lot of people with less skill have speed. Some at least, and no consistency. The fast stock guys on some layouts are faster or really close to mod times. You say stock is easier but I guess it depends on what your looking at. Obviously it's not lap times.
The lap time thing can be misleading. Sure if you have an expert driver running a slower car on a technical track, he can have better times than a mod driver, because a faster car wont make a difference on some tracks/layouts. Doesn't mean that it is necessarily more challenging.

Whenever you have newer drivers, what class do you direct them to? Stock, because it is slower. Easier to handle. When I started to drive mod truck, I was terrible (still am). Way more challenging to me, and I'm only running 10.5. I can go lap after lap after lap in Stock truck and do pretty well, but I don't like the cheaters and playing the "I have the strongest lipo" game. I do agree with you though, mod is a lot more fun.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:59 AM
  #64  
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I love racing stock. There's one guy in the field who's really consistent and a second a lap faster than most others and I like having him there. It shows where the bar is and makes us all work harder on our lines, set ups and general race approach.
I wouldn't be trying/practicing/thinking as hard or doing r.c as much if I was closer to the pointy end.
The motors are taking a pounding true but I figured I'll keep changing the rotor when it looses its punch ($30)
60c Batts from hobbyking $30
Stock legal esc from Hobbywing $80
I was wearing parts out a lot more with a faster motor. My diff/spur/CVD's last for ages in stock.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:59 AM
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Maybe you should come to the nor cal area and race. There is a good chance there will be a 17.5 guy in mod. There is also a good chance he will be ahead of you. I respect the fast 17.5 guys because I can't pull the same lap times. The fast guys are right there with mod on a lot of layouts. It's not about controlling the extra power, I'm not talking beginners, it's about going fast with less. Seems like you would be able to deduce what I am saying from my previous posts. I don't race 17.5 but I respect it.






Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Jack Carter


Seen it all before ....

A guy from stock takes on mod only to find he has still not learned to control the extra power ..


Then when ever a mod racer goes to stock he usually dominates ....

Why is this so ?

Because its easier to step down to a slower motor then stepping up to more power & a faster motor ....


So much for the your stock is harder , takes more skill ect .
That is just a story with no back up to prove.

Fact :
No stock racer's are dominating Mod anywhere ...
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #66  
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Nice try jack


Its is all about throttle control , easier with a slower motor ,..

Can saw away at the throttle with no consequences, most knows this .


Need skill to control extra power , that's why stocks guy go slow in mod ...

and
mod guys dominate stock when ever they race the class.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:30 PM
  #67  
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Nice try? I'm not trying anything. A lot of guys out here run both stock and mod so...... Our layouts are definitely easier to get around with some motor than with a 17.5 and that is just a fact. Most of the fast 'pro stock' guys are fast no matter what they are driving. Maybe this thread got convoluted somewhere I am not sure. I don't see 17.5 as a class that slow mod guys drop down in so they can win. I see them doing it because they like it for some reason. I am done here as I wasn't trying to start an argument and like most threads on this site, they inevitably turn into a pissing match. I couldn't care less one way or the other to be honest.

And mr. Cherry dude, there is no reason to reply to my statement as I won't be reading it and all it will be doing is raising your already rediculously high post count.





Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Nice try jack


Its is all about throttle control , easier with a slower motor ,..

Can saw away at the throttle with no consequences, most knows this .


Need skill to control extra power , that's why stocks guy go slow in mod ...

and
mod guys dominate stock when ever they race the class.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:45 PM
  #68  
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Owell ....

Jack not intending to call you out , just can't stand it when someone tries to say it takes more skill to control a slower motor ...

That is not true .....
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Owell ....

Jack not intending to call you out , just can't stand it when someone tries to say it takes more skill to control a slower motor ...

That is not true .....
I never once said that. If you read, what I was trying to relay was the fact that it takes a lot of skill to go as fast as some of these guys are going with these slow 17.5 motors. Controlling them is easy. Setting fast laps, lap after lap is not easy.

I never said it takes more skill to control a slower motor. That's all you. It takes mad skill to go fast with a slower motor though.

Officially done with this thread. It's meaningless trying to get a simple point across to people who only see what they want to see and take as much as they can out of context.
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:14 PM
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I see what jack is talking about. To drive a 17.5 fast does take a require skilled and being a clean and consistent driver while driving in mod lets you have more room for error bc you have the power to catch up from mistakes.
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Old 07-23-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Geeess...
Get with the times dudes...

Stock is no longer a entry level class !!!!
No way anyone can tell someone who races the class they do not belong.

That's why I have been doing my best to discuss a new sportsman class for the new racer .

Novice is whats broken ..

leave the 17.5 class alone !!!

Stock is healthy and has been doing great .
We don't want to screw the class up with more rules ..
I agree with your thought of a new sportsman class / strategy. I am new to the sport and have tried to get my younger kids involved in the sport and it is intimidating to get the track time and experience against the experienced racers at the few different venues that we have been to.

Maybe it would be more beneficial to start a new thread under that heading to grab a broader audience. This discussion may/can result in something if we get the right group involved. The thread title comes across as a need to change the "stock" class.

I agree with Cherry that the lack of entry level direction. I have noticed a significant decrease in entries in the few tracks close to us which will eventually reduce the available locations if we cannot get new people into the sport.
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:15 PM
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We have 8-12 year old kids on the podium regularly.

Take your kids to open practice with a rtr.... Let them use your take offs .... Teach them until they are safe to race... Then let them race

Last edited by JMURACN; 07-23-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:24 PM
  #73  
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My opinion is that there are too many classes that cater to faster guys, and no class to cater to the sportsman racer.

At my track we have a novice class that is usually very novice. A lot of young kids who can barely complete a single lap without flipping over or jumping the pipes.

Then we have stock buggy, mod buggy, 4wd buggy, 4wd SC, stock SC, and stock truck, which all have some pretty fast guys and a few weaker guys.

There isn't a class where the people moving out of novice can get together and race without getting smoked by experienced fast drivers. If the numbers were large enough to have 2 or 3 heats of any of the stock classes, then the weaker drivers would all get shuffled to the lower heats and mains and it would be fine. Unfortunately we usually only have 4-10 entries in each stock class, so the slowest guys are in the same heat with the fastest guys and get in the way and have to pull over all the time.

And this class structure hurts the fast guys too. Since there are so many fast guy classes, there are only a few fast guys in each class and the fast guys don't get to race against each other as much, making racing more boring.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rc10t3b4 View Post
I see what jack is talking about. To drive a 17.5 fast does take a require skilled and being a clean and consistent driver while driving in mod lets you have more room for error bc you have the power to catch up from mistakes.
This.

At almost every club day and even our large titles, regular 17.5 guys are putting down faster laps than most of the mod field. The only time the mod guys are consistently faster is on tracks with huge straights.

On tight tracks during open practice, you will always see the stock guys making up heaps of ground driving around the mod guys on the infield only to be overtaken on the straights by the mod guys.

The class should be called "Pro Stock" just like in drag racing. Watch any ProStock drag race and you will see how close the competition is - cars are separated by thousandths of a second and it's arguably one of the sport's toughest classes to race and win in. I don't see anyone walking up to a seasoned ProStock champion and telling them to move onto ProMod because the cars have bigger motors and go faster.

Racing stock and being fast in the class is most of the fun. I like the fact that I need to sit down and extract every ounce of speed out of my chassis and motors; it is part of the attraction to the class.

I agree with Rasheed, it's the Novice class or a stepping stone class that's your problem. Over here, 2wd stock is by far the most competitive class and is a huge jump from Novice in terms of turning consistent fast laps and not ruining the race the for the rest of the field by spinning out or being a moving chicane.

Last edited by StupidHead; 07-23-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Owell ....

Jack not intending to call you out , just can't stand it when someone tries to say it takes more skill to control a slower motor ...

That is not true .....
I agree. It's nonsense. Some drivers talk themselves into this myth so they can stay in Stock and not progress any further.
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