Is This the Future of 1/8th Electric Offroad???
02-23-2011, 04:42 AM
#16
Yes your right there as a cheap entry into EP the outlaw is hard to beat, you can basically buy 2 outlaws 1 as a runner & 1 spares car for the cost of one of the mainstream brands.
02-23-2011, 05:24 AM
#18
The arms for example look like they will snap landing a jump correctly.
Let alone stand sketchy landings and crashes.
No way weak 1/8th's will be exepted by the general public.
1/8th is what it is for a couple dozen reasons.
No need to fix something perfect.
Let alone stand sketchy landings and crashes.
No way weak 1/8th's will be exepted by the general public.
1/8th is what it is for a couple dozen reasons.
No need to fix something perfect.
02-23-2011, 08:16 AM
#20
To all the haters, if you have never owned it, then shut it. It is no Losi 8ight durability wise, that is for sure, but look at the original posts intention. There is a place for lighter weight platforms to compete in the hands of an experienced driver. You tune the handling of the car to match the weight, not vice-versa. 1/10 scale 4x4 buggy lap times are right near 1/8 e-buggy times at most tracks I visit. Those that keep em' off the pipes finish. I have broken most of them regardless. I'd like to give this one some wheel time then make an informed decision. It might have really good plastic, who knows? For now, my Ofna's suit me fine, for $200-300 more per kit, they should.
02-23-2011, 08:33 AM
#21
I think the OP is on to something, but not sure if the platform he is using as an example is really the right car. However, it may work for him.
Quite a few of us noticed this concept and started converting the Losi 810 to electric for the very reasons the OP mentions. It goes without saying that the experiment has been a complete success.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ric-1-8-a.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...onversion.html
The 810 works because it is pretty much a Losi Eight in design, just everything on the car is about 15% or so smaller. Unless you know what you are looking for, most people can't tell the difference at a passing glance between the 810 and regular 8ight. The end result is we have 1/8 car in size and durability, but 2lbs lighter than a regular 1/8. Our cars RTR run with a battery good enough for 15 minute mains are sub 6lbs. These cars meet legal 1/8 size in every category except weight which ROAR has set at 3200 grams. Our cars are around 2600-2800 depending on setup.
The end result is a very nimble car and much longer run times. We literally could run 20 minute, maybe even 30 minute mains without breaking a sweat. On 5s/1400kv my car burns around 125/mah a minute. This translates into needing around 3750mah for a 30 minute main. In other words, I could run a 30 minute main in an 810 on a battery slightly smaller than a 4s 5000 pack in a regular sized/weight 1/8 car that barely gets 15 minutes.
This is the direction 1/8 should go. The biggest hurdle is ROAR because their rules on weight and voltage are hampering the technology moving forward as it makes it harder for mfg's to push the envelope for fear their won't be a market for their products if it isn't "legal". If you talk to a lot of nitro guys, their one complaint about e 1/8 is short mains. Lighter 1/8 cars with higher voltage would easily fix that problem.
Quite a few of us noticed this concept and started converting the Losi 810 to electric for the very reasons the OP mentions. It goes without saying that the experiment has been a complete success.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ric-1-8-a.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...onversion.html
The 810 works because it is pretty much a Losi Eight in design, just everything on the car is about 15% or so smaller. Unless you know what you are looking for, most people can't tell the difference at a passing glance between the 810 and regular 8ight. The end result is we have 1/8 car in size and durability, but 2lbs lighter than a regular 1/8. Our cars RTR run with a battery good enough for 15 minute mains are sub 6lbs. These cars meet legal 1/8 size in every category except weight which ROAR has set at 3200 grams. Our cars are around 2600-2800 depending on setup.
The end result is a very nimble car and much longer run times. We literally could run 20 minute, maybe even 30 minute mains without breaking a sweat. On 5s/1400kv my car burns around 125/mah a minute. This translates into needing around 3750mah for a 30 minute main. In other words, I could run a 30 minute main in an 810 on a battery slightly smaller than a 4s 5000 pack in a regular sized/weight 1/8 car that barely gets 15 minutes.
This is the direction 1/8 should go. The biggest hurdle is ROAR because their rules on weight and voltage are hampering the technology moving forward as it makes it harder for mfg's to push the envelope for fear their won't be a market for their products if it isn't "legal". If you talk to a lot of nitro guys, their one complaint about e 1/8 is short mains. Lighter 1/8 cars with higher voltage would easily fix that problem.
02-23-2011, 09:24 AM
#23
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (13)
With Lipo/Brushless, 1/10th has never been better
When you get down to it IMO this cheap Chinese RTR is the first true 1/8th scale offroad EP design, and having watched the evolution of R/C Cars since the 80's I have little doubt that very soon we will see many more upscaled 1/10th EP 4wd designs enter the 1/8th EP racing scene.
I will agree though, I don't like converted 1/8th cars either. Thats why i have THE first true 1/8th EP car, the Caster Fusion.
02-23-2011, 09:51 AM
#24
Hi All
I would classify myself as a Vintage R/C racer (started racing in Australia in 1/10th EP with a Tamiya Fox from the Mid 80's) so I have seen a lot of changes over the past few decades.
Although taking an extended break from competition racing I keep an eye on things via the forums & R/C Mags. Sadly it is pretty clear that the change over to Lipo/Brushless power has not really had a positive effect on 1/10 scale electric classes in general and there is little doubt that 1/8th scale GP off road racing has become the "iT" class of the moment.
Never having been a fan of the noisy cars the rapid expansion in 1/8th scale GP offroad racing & tracks has not really interested me, that is until the 1/8th scale EP conversions started to become more prevalent, with all of the main stream manufacturers now offering 1/8th EP versions that with newer Lipo/Brushless tech can arguably go toe to toe with their GP equivalents.
Lately I have been keen to get back into racing in particular the fledgling 1/8th scale electric racing scene, (it reminds me of the good old days when rules were secondary to the racing) but IMHO all of the current big brand 1/8th EP kits on offer are really just excessively heavy Nitro conversions that suffer from overly complex/low efficiency drive trains designed to suit GP motors and compensated for in electric trim by using higher than necessary lipo voltage packs & larger brushless motors.
So finally getting to the point of this thread I stumbled across the HP Cars Outlaw 1/8th Buggy; http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ss-buggy.html#
Now before you all start flaming this thread with insults about cheap chinese crap, blah blah blah
I would argue that a lightweight 1/10th design based model like the Outlaw when upgraded with some competition shocks, strengthened shock towers, stronger servo, better ESC, etc could easily hold it's own against the current crop of GP/EP 1/8th scales.
Who knows they might even make a 30min final on one battery with no need for a refueling/batt change stop, I imagine this could be something of a race advantage.
When you get down to it IMO this cheap Chinese RTR is the first true 1/8th scale offroad EP design, and having watched the evolution of R/C Cars since the 80's I have little doubt that very soon we will see many more upscaled 1/10th EP 4wd designs enter the 1/8th EP racing scene.
I would classify myself as a Vintage R/C racer (started racing in Australia in 1/10th EP with a Tamiya Fox from the Mid 80's) so I have seen a lot of changes over the past few decades.
Although taking an extended break from competition racing I keep an eye on things via the forums & R/C Mags. Sadly it is pretty clear that the change over to Lipo/Brushless power has not really had a positive effect on 1/10 scale electric classes in general and there is little doubt that 1/8th scale GP off road racing has become the "iT" class of the moment.
Never having been a fan of the noisy cars the rapid expansion in 1/8th scale GP offroad racing & tracks has not really interested me, that is until the 1/8th scale EP conversions started to become more prevalent, with all of the main stream manufacturers now offering 1/8th EP versions that with newer Lipo/Brushless tech can arguably go toe to toe with their GP equivalents.
Lately I have been keen to get back into racing in particular the fledgling 1/8th scale electric racing scene, (it reminds me of the good old days when rules were secondary to the racing) but IMHO all of the current big brand 1/8th EP kits on offer are really just excessively heavy Nitro conversions that suffer from overly complex/low efficiency drive trains designed to suit GP motors and compensated for in electric trim by using higher than necessary lipo voltage packs & larger brushless motors.
So finally getting to the point of this thread I stumbled across the HP Cars Outlaw 1/8th Buggy; http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...ss-buggy.html#
Now before you all start flaming this thread with insults about cheap chinese crap, blah blah blah
I would argue that a lightweight 1/10th design based model like the Outlaw when upgraded with some competition shocks, strengthened shock towers, stronger servo, better ESC, etc could easily hold it's own against the current crop of GP/EP 1/8th scales.
Who knows they might even make a 30min final on one battery with no need for a refueling/batt change stop, I imagine this could be something of a race advantage.
When you get down to it IMO this cheap Chinese RTR is the first true 1/8th scale offroad EP design, and having watched the evolution of R/C Cars since the 80's I have little doubt that very soon we will see many more upscaled 1/10th EP 4wd designs enter the 1/8th EP racing scene.
Your statement about lipos not having a positive effect on 1/10th scale classes, just shows how out of touch you are with the hobby.
Last edited by blade329; 02-23-2011 at 10:03 AM.
02-23-2011, 10:07 AM
#25
The whole notion of a "lightweight" 1/8th scale buggy is just nonsense. You need a certain amount of weight to keep the wheels planted on these 45mph rockets. Take off too much weight and you just spend your day spinning the wheels. Just looking at the Outlaw, with those ultra thin shock towers, tells me the buggy wouldn't last more than a half dozen laps at a standard 1/8th scale track. The Hot Bodies Ve8 IS a ground up electric designed 1/8th scale buggy. It still weighs over 9lbs. It's a great buggy, but it's not far and away superior to every other brand out there of gas conversions.
Your statement about lipos not having a positive effect on 1/10th scale classes, just shows how out of touch you are with the hobby.
Your statement about lipos not having a positive effect on 1/10th scale classes, just shows how out of touch you are with the hobby.
The issue is that a mfg's really hasn't come out with an acceptable light weight platform for 1/8 other than the Losi 810. The Losi 810 is about as close as it is going to get and it is perfect imho. The car needs to be closer to a 1/8 design than a 1/10 design for future platforms.
I don't think 1/10 has really evolved with lipo technology due to ROAR rules. They still run the races like they did when all that was available was nicd/nimh batteries. 6 minute mains. 540 can rules, etc. They haven't allowed the cars to evolve with the technology available. Even trying to run the 4x4 SCTs on 2s is just plain retarded. These cars are nearly as heavy as an 8th scale. Heat is an issue, ESCs are being strained, short mains.
02-23-2011, 10:58 AM
#29
Electric 1/8 cars don't need to be 8.5lbs. Setup properly, you can have a lighter car and the appropriate power plant so that you have similar speeds and handling. I don't think durability suffers at all depending on the platform used. My 810 is more durable than my rc8 and ve8 imho.
The issue is that a mfg's really hasn't come out with an acceptable light weight platform for 1/8 other than the Losi 810. The Losi 810 is about as close as it is going to get and it is perfect imho. The car needs to be closer to a 1/8 design than a 1/10 design for future platforms.
I don't think 1/10 has really evolved with lipo technology due to ROAR rules. They still run the races like they did when all that was available was nicd/nimh batteries. 6 minute mains. 540 can rules, etc. They haven't allowed the cars to evolve with the technology available. Even trying to run the 4x4 SCTs on 2s is just plain retarded. These cars are nearly as heavy as an 8th scale. Heat is an issue, ESCs are being strained, short mains.
The issue is that a mfg's really hasn't come out with an acceptable light weight platform for 1/8 other than the Losi 810. The Losi 810 is about as close as it is going to get and it is perfect imho. The car needs to be closer to a 1/8 design than a 1/10 design for future platforms.
I don't think 1/10 has really evolved with lipo technology due to ROAR rules. They still run the races like they did when all that was available was nicd/nimh batteries. 6 minute mains. 540 can rules, etc. They haven't allowed the cars to evolve with the technology available. Even trying to run the 4x4 SCTs on 2s is just plain retarded. These cars are nearly as heavy as an 8th scale. Heat is an issue, ESCs are being strained, short mains.
One thing the people forget is that heavier cars are going to handle rough areas better. 1/8th scale tracks often have big ruts. I lighter car is more apt to get taken out by such areas.
Durability is often subjective. If you are a smooth controlled driver, you wont crash as much and have less breakage. I have broken hardly anything on my Ve8 in over a year, yet I've seen racers who run more "durable" buggies not finish races over and over again.
So ROAR race lengths are the sole basis for your argument?
Having been in a couple of ROAR races, I can tell you that I would not appreciate having to be at a track for 20 hours due to 10 minute long mains. I don't see how anyone cannot see the value that lipos have contributed to 1/10th scale racing.
Last edited by blade329; 02-23-2011 at 11:29 AM.