1LikesTLR 22 Racing Buggy Thread
05-08-2011, 08:41 PM
#6421
k1ller rc
LRC and HRC Blocks
This may be a stupid question, but im sure im not the only one wondering!
Whats the difference between an LRC and an HRC block?
Thanks for the help!
Todd Hodge put a post on the team losi forum. I think this answers your question.
On the 22 you have the ability to raise the inner rear hinge pin from LRC to HRC. The total height change is almost 1mm between the two positions. The LRC will allow the car to roll more over the rear end while also inducing more dogbone plunge. The increase in dogbone plunge will increase the bind of the dogbone pin as it moves in and out of the outdrive during compression of the suspension. Ultimately an increase in dogbone plunge creates more forward traction via mechanical bind. Also when you land off jumps on power you will have more bottoming resistance.
HRC will provide less dogbone plunge and a higher pin height. The higher pin height will reduce the rear lateral roll and give more support via suspension. The HRC will provide more offpower steering as it will provide more support over the rear end and making the weight transfer to the front. With higher roll center you will have less dogbone plunge giving you less forward grip and less mechanical support via dogbone and outdrive.
LRC and HRC Blocks
This may be a stupid question, but im sure im not the only one wondering!
Whats the difference between an LRC and an HRC block?
Thanks for the help!
Todd Hodge put a post on the team losi forum. I think this answers your question.
On the 22 you have the ability to raise the inner rear hinge pin from LRC to HRC. The total height change is almost 1mm between the two positions. The LRC will allow the car to roll more over the rear end while also inducing more dogbone plunge. The increase in dogbone plunge will increase the bind of the dogbone pin as it moves in and out of the outdrive during compression of the suspension. Ultimately an increase in dogbone plunge creates more forward traction via mechanical bind. Also when you land off jumps on power you will have more bottoming resistance.
HRC will provide less dogbone plunge and a higher pin height. The higher pin height will reduce the rear lateral roll and give more support via suspension. The HRC will provide more offpower steering as it will provide more support over the rear end and making the weight transfer to the front. With higher roll center you will have less dogbone plunge giving you less forward grip and less mechanical support via dogbone and outdrive.
Now, my other delema since that question has been answered is:
I run alot of out door loomy tracks that are more based for 8th scale, and i dont have a whole lot of extra funds- so- im trying to get info on which ones to keep on hand as these arnt cheap- Im running mid-motor for better cornering.
Thanks in advance for the info!
05-08-2011, 09:45 PM
#6423
^Look up^
05-08-2011, 10:12 PM
#6425
Kit comes with trailing.
Here's a qoute on the subject.
The trailing is a bit more forgiving when the surface is rough. It also tends to suit heavy handed throttle input. If you like to steer with the rear wheels, using your horsepower and brakes, then trailing likely will suit you best. (Also, since this is an RTR and most novice drivers treat the throttle like an on/off switch, this is the std. setup). If you like laser precision lines and smooth throttle delivery, perhaps inline? The trailing will deliver more steering on exit where the inline is gives more initial or entry, off-power steering. The bump steer is also affected which changes the cornering characteristics. So some drivers may notice or some track situations may make the bump steering effect more noticeable with inline vs. trailing. While they are independent adjustments, they will definitely affect one another. So, you may need to explore bump steer washers in combination with steering block changes.
It's all about breaking down the corner into segments and figuring out what you like or need. So far, most guys are complaining about needing more steering. But I've yet to hear them breakdown their corner for me. When you're using the trailing, you need to slow up into corners more and really attack the exit. Where as with inline you may be able to attack at entry and steer inside of someone. The flip side is then you have to watch your exit if you push out towards the exit or if the truck you just passed is on your bumper or worse pushing you (spinning you?). Not to mention if you loop the truck upon entry.
It is also something that can be tailored to specific tracks or track layouts. At OC/RC, I did some A/B comparison's with roughly equivalent setups on the same layout, one with inline and one with trailing. I could do very similar lap times, but they way I went about achieving those times was completely different. Especially when you're passing trucks or have someone on your bumper, you have to decide if you'd rather drive strapped, hanging it out (trailing) vs. methodically and protecting your line (inline). At the end of the straight, they had a berm on the outer line that had a nice feed onto the triple that also had an inside lane with no berm. With the trailing I'd just let the truck ride the berm and the build speed on exit to take the triple. With the inline setup, I could literally steer inside of guys who were riding the berm but needed to almost block them once I made the pass and landed the triple. With the inline, I also needed to slow down more at the end of the straight to turn in that hard, but it was the "short" way around the corner. With the trailing, I could almost just let off slightly and literally just "throw the truck in there" and it would drift a bit once the turn was initiated. Either way was fast, I just had to choose which would let me pass more trucks.
So the idea is to really analyze where your handling strengths and weakness are to capitalize on where it's good and minimize the weaknesses through driving and line choices. That in combination with tailoring the link lengths to your taste or driving style is pretty powerful. The links and the blocks can dramatically alter the dynamics of the corner.
Here's a qoute on the subject.
The trailing is a bit more forgiving when the surface is rough. It also tends to suit heavy handed throttle input. If you like to steer with the rear wheels, using your horsepower and brakes, then trailing likely will suit you best. (Also, since this is an RTR and most novice drivers treat the throttle like an on/off switch, this is the std. setup). If you like laser precision lines and smooth throttle delivery, perhaps inline? The trailing will deliver more steering on exit where the inline is gives more initial or entry, off-power steering. The bump steer is also affected which changes the cornering characteristics. So some drivers may notice or some track situations may make the bump steering effect more noticeable with inline vs. trailing. While they are independent adjustments, they will definitely affect one another. So, you may need to explore bump steer washers in combination with steering block changes.
It's all about breaking down the corner into segments and figuring out what you like or need. So far, most guys are complaining about needing more steering. But I've yet to hear them breakdown their corner for me. When you're using the trailing, you need to slow up into corners more and really attack the exit. Where as with inline you may be able to attack at entry and steer inside of someone. The flip side is then you have to watch your exit if you push out towards the exit or if the truck you just passed is on your bumper or worse pushing you (spinning you?). Not to mention if you loop the truck upon entry.
It is also something that can be tailored to specific tracks or track layouts. At OC/RC, I did some A/B comparison's with roughly equivalent setups on the same layout, one with inline and one with trailing. I could do very similar lap times, but they way I went about achieving those times was completely different. Especially when you're passing trucks or have someone on your bumper, you have to decide if you'd rather drive strapped, hanging it out (trailing) vs. methodically and protecting your line (inline). At the end of the straight, they had a berm on the outer line that had a nice feed onto the triple that also had an inside lane with no berm. With the trailing I'd just let the truck ride the berm and the build speed on exit to take the triple. With the inline setup, I could literally steer inside of guys who were riding the berm but needed to almost block them once I made the pass and landed the triple. With the inline, I also needed to slow down more at the end of the straight to turn in that hard, but it was the "short" way around the corner. With the trailing, I could almost just let off slightly and literally just "throw the truck in there" and it would drift a bit once the turn was initiated. Either way was fast, I just had to choose which would let me pass more trucks.
So the idea is to really analyze where your handling strengths and weakness are to capitalize on where it's good and minimize the weaknesses through driving and line choices. That in combination with tailoring the link lengths to your taste or driving style is pretty powerful. The links and the blocks can dramatically alter the dynamics of the corner.
05-08-2011, 10:49 PM
#6426
Im having issues with cornering, for the most part i have good in-cornering throttle and control, but it wants to spin leaving! After several tire changes and adding the Losi weight kit, several different combos of oil, shock limiters and spring and spring weight changes and about 3 days of testing these combos, it still wants to kick like a mule and come around exiting, even under low to mid throttle,(yes ive done both ball diff adjustments and clutch tension changes) and im wondering which blocks and which degree blocks to try! As it says im limited on budget, so i cant invest 145.00 into all the blocks to try and see which ones are best, there-fore im asking to see which ones have been suited to be the best for my track conditions which are explained in the above post.
So anyone with advice for my track conditions would be helpful..
05-08-2011, 11:02 PM
#6427
Ok Captn
Im having issues with cornering, for the most part i have good in-cornering throttle and control, but it wants to spin leaving! After several tire changes and adding the Losi weight kit, several different combos of oil, shock limiters and spring and spring weight changes and about 3 days of testing these combos, it still wants to kick like a mule and come around exiting, even under low to mid throttle,(yes ive done both ball diff adjustments and clutch tension changes) and im wondering which blocks and which degree blocks to try! As it says im limited on budget, so i cant invest 145.00 into all the blocks to try and see which ones are best, there-fore im asking to see which ones have been suited to be the best for my track conditions which are explained in the above post.
So anyone with advice for my track conditions would be helpful..
Im having issues with cornering, for the most part i have good in-cornering throttle and control, but it wants to spin leaving! After several tire changes and adding the Losi weight kit, several different combos of oil, shock limiters and spring and spring weight changes and about 3 days of testing these combos, it still wants to kick like a mule and come around exiting, even under low to mid throttle,(yes ive done both ball diff adjustments and clutch tension changes) and im wondering which blocks and which degree blocks to try! As it says im limited on budget, so i cant invest 145.00 into all the blocks to try and see which ones are best, there-fore im asking to see which ones have been suited to be the best for my track conditions which are explained in the above post.
So anyone with advice for my track conditions would be helpful..
I just fixed this EXACT same issue on a 22 last night, heres how it went.:
Just last nigt, a guy at my track was having issues with his 22. Wasn't driving well. His newly rear configged car, first couple times on the track with it in rear config.. i hear him say "man this car is driving like crap". I drove his car, and it had the same issue. Ok going into a turn.. ok mid turn... would snap around on corner exit.
We take it back to the pits and he let me set his car up. I fine tune some of his settings... and back on the track we go.. and the car drives like butter. What was his main issue? - ride height. His front end was at 24mm and his rear was at like 18 or 19. Set him right at 22 front and back (we run a tad lower at my track than most)... first words out of his mouth were "aahh.. much better".
Am i saying this is your issue? No... im saying that a bizzare handling characteristic like that screams setup error. So first thing... is find the issue. What you are seeing wont be fixed by changing your rear hing pin brace. The factory 4.0 lrc or 3.5 lrc will be just fine on just about any track... might not be PERFECT for every track, but it wont cause what you are seeing. Sometimes an issue with the rear of the car can be from a setup error at the front, too.
If you are running on a loose track... rear motor is a must. Mid motor is really for turf/carpet type conditions where you have an almost unlimited amount of bite. We run on an ultra-high grip damp/red clay surface with slicks, and even with our grip levels, rear-motor is superior.
Last edited by Cpt.America; 05-08-2011 at 11:13 PM.
05-08-2011, 11:07 PM
#6428
Hey killerdude, you say you run on an outdoor loose track but you are running mid motor.
All the info points to the mid motor being best for hi traction tracks not loose conditions.
Any special reason you chose to run mid on your loose track?
Even with the rear motor setup the car can become loose on exit but seems as though that is the recommended choice for less than perfect traction.
vr6cjdude, have you tried the different trailing and inline spindles on the 22 at OCRC?
I'm curious what the changes will be like on this buggy.
All the info points to the mid motor being best for hi traction tracks not loose conditions.
Any special reason you chose to run mid on your loose track?
Even with the rear motor setup the car can become loose on exit but seems as though that is the recommended choice for less than perfect traction.
vr6cjdude, have you tried the different trailing and inline spindles on the 22 at OCRC?
I'm curious what the changes will be like on this buggy.
05-08-2011, 11:36 PM
#6430
ok, ill swap to rear motor and start from the base losi set up and go from there. Thanks guys! I do appreciate it!
05-09-2011, 12:05 AM
#6431
Tech Initiate
you guys should look on the losi forums. most of the questions where answered there. Todd hodge had this to say to a racer who was having loose issues.
Rear hub spacing-I suggest putting all the spacers to the rear of the hub. If this is too much then you can start moving the hub back in the car.
Don't be afraid to try 4.5 degrees of rear toe-in. I had one racer tell me he loves 5 degrees of rear toe-in.
Try 25mm rear ride height-this will increase rear traction.
Frank root had this to say also.
I would try the 4* rear toe block. You can also try the Aurora wing, Todd has been running this. Shorter wheel base can also help rear grip.
Not giving any discredit to this forum but dont limit yourself to just it. I have had more questions answered on losi forum then here. All I had to do is read what was already asked. But anyways I hope that this helps out guys.
Rear hub spacing-I suggest putting all the spacers to the rear of the hub. If this is too much then you can start moving the hub back in the car.
Don't be afraid to try 4.5 degrees of rear toe-in. I had one racer tell me he loves 5 degrees of rear toe-in.
Try 25mm rear ride height-this will increase rear traction.
Frank root had this to say also.
I would try the 4* rear toe block. You can also try the Aurora wing, Todd has been running this. Shorter wheel base can also help rear grip.
Not giving any discredit to this forum but dont limit yourself to just it. I have had more questions answered on losi forum then here. All I had to do is read what was already asked. But anyways I hope that this helps out guys.
05-09-2011, 12:27 AM
#6432
I've had the loose issue since day one on a usually hi bite clay track but when the conditions are less than perfect the rear will step out on exit.
Glad to hear that the Losi guys are addressing it, I'm gonna go to the Losi forums and check em out.
Got links to get us there?
I have already settled on the 5 degree LRC block, didn't lock it in but felt I needed as much as was available to go extreme then work my way back into getting it to turn again.
Well it would still turn in fantastic and could still get loose when the track would be less than perfect.
I also started to try some of the kit setup configurations since that setup is known to let the car push.
What I have been running lately is the Dustin Evans setup but with the 5* LRC toe block, 1* anti squat and the 2mm ballstud shim on the spindle which is the kit config and this creates the extreme toe out/bumpsteer that I feel is letting the car dive into the corner still and push a little more coming out as well as not loop out when landing a jump then trying to turn.
Still a work in progress but this is the best it has been, also using the next stiffest, Orange spring in the front which is also getting it closer to the feel I'm looking for.
Glad to hear that the Losi guys are addressing it, I'm gonna go to the Losi forums and check em out.
Got links to get us there?
I have already settled on the 5 degree LRC block, didn't lock it in but felt I needed as much as was available to go extreme then work my way back into getting it to turn again.
Well it would still turn in fantastic and could still get loose when the track would be less than perfect.
I also started to try some of the kit setup configurations since that setup is known to let the car push.
What I have been running lately is the Dustin Evans setup but with the 5* LRC toe block, 1* anti squat and the 2mm ballstud shim on the spindle which is the kit config and this creates the extreme toe out/bumpsteer that I feel is letting the car dive into the corner still and push a little more coming out as well as not loop out when landing a jump then trying to turn.
Still a work in progress but this is the best it has been, also using the next stiffest, Orange spring in the front which is also getting it closer to the feel I'm looking for.
Last edited by F N CUDA; 05-09-2011 at 11:24 AM.
05-09-2011, 12:28 AM
#6433
hi guys,
ran 7 packs through the car, and noticed my spur gear and pinion were really noisy by about the 6. On inspection, there is play on the spur / shaft. This translates to play between the meshing of the pinion and spur.
At first I thought it may be a busted bearing inside the transmission housing (the ones holding the shaft in place) but both bearings are fine and smooth. Everything else has been built to per instructions
Anyone else notice this? Is it normal?
ran 7 packs through the car, and noticed my spur gear and pinion were really noisy by about the 6. On inspection, there is play on the spur / shaft. This translates to play between the meshing of the pinion and spur.
At first I thought it may be a busted bearing inside the transmission housing (the ones holding the shaft in place) but both bearings are fine and smooth. Everything else has been built to per instructions
Anyone else notice this? Is it normal?
05-09-2011, 04:04 AM
#6435
Ok Captn
Im having issues with cornering, for the most part i have good in-cornering throttle and control, but it wants to spin leaving! After several tire changes and adding the Losi weight kit, several different combos of oil, shock limiters and spring and spring weight changes and about 3 days of testing these combos, it still wants to kick like a mule and come around exiting, even under low to mid throttle,(yes ive done both ball diff adjustments and clutch tension changes) and im wondering which blocks and which degree blocks to try! As it says im limited on budget, so i cant invest 145.00 into all the blocks to try and see which ones are best, there-fore im asking to see which ones have been suited to be the best for my track conditions which are explained in the above post.
So anyone with advice for my track conditions would be helpful..
Im having issues with cornering, for the most part i have good in-cornering throttle and control, but it wants to spin leaving! After several tire changes and adding the Losi weight kit, several different combos of oil, shock limiters and spring and spring weight changes and about 3 days of testing these combos, it still wants to kick like a mule and come around exiting, even under low to mid throttle,(yes ive done both ball diff adjustments and clutch tension changes) and im wondering which blocks and which degree blocks to try! As it says im limited on budget, so i cant invest 145.00 into all the blocks to try and see which ones are best, there-fore im asking to see which ones have been suited to be the best for my track conditions which are explained in the above post.
So anyone with advice for my track conditions would be helpful..