Originally Posted by TJMac

Yeah they still use them on the TC4 Club Racer. The TC6.1 uses a newer version (VCS3) but I don't know if they work with FT off road shocks.

Originally Posted by zipperfoot

Awe... not an onroad guy. Too civilized for me. If i remember correctly didnt those also have a foam insert?

Originally Posted by John Bolten

Just so you know it's not machined Delrin. And your correct. $18 is alot which is why AE makes the stock ones they way thay do. Its cheaper to make a spacer out of cheap plastic but it does not do the job it needs to do. Next time you have your shocks appart install the stock spacer without the orings. Now move the shock shaft side to side. You will then understand how much side force your orings are trying to control.

This is the reason for a true shock bushing. It does all the work of controling the shock shaft leaving the orings to do what they were designed to do. Seal.

They are expencive. Some good things are. Look at the price of the ProLine DLC shock shafts. Expencive yes. But the fact is they work!

Just to give you an idea the material I use for the bushings has a .05 coefficient of friction. DLC coated shaft has a .02 coefficient. Delrin has a
.25 coefficient. The stock Spacer material if it were to touch the shaft has a .38 coefficient.

Orings "stiction" on the shock shaft increases with the amount of presure that they squeeze the shaft. With the stock spacers you have high amounts of oring compresion. Because the stock spacer has excesive clearance it lets the shaft move in a lateral force. This lateral or side force causes the oring to compress increasing its "stiction" Having a correctly suported shock shaft prevents this compresion of the shock oring.

Sorry for the winded explination... LOL

John

Originally Posted by John Bolten

Just so you know it's not machined Delrin. And your correct. $18 is alot which is why AE makes the stock ones they way thay do. Its cheaper to make a spacer out of cheap plastic but it does not do the job it needs to do. Next time you have your shocks appart install the stock spacer without the orings. Now move the shock shaft side to side. You will then understand how much side force your orings are trying to control.

This is the reason for a true shock bushing. It does all the work of controling the shock shaft leaving the orings to do what they were designed to do. Seal.

They are expencive. Some good things are. Look at the price of the ProLine DLC shock shafts. Expencive yes. But the fact is they work!

Just to give you an idea the material I use for the bushings has a .05 coefficient of friction. DLC coated shaft has a .02 coefficient. Delrin has a
.25 coefficient. The stock Spacer material if it were to touch the shaft has a .38 coefficient.

Orings "stiction" on the shock shaft increases with the amount of presure that they squeeze the shaft. With the stock spacers you have high amounts of oring compresion. Because the stock spacer has excesive clearance it lets the shaft move in a lateral force. This lateral or side force causes the oring to compress increasing its "stiction" Having a correctly suported shock shaft prevents this compresion of the shock oring.

Sorry for the winded explination... LOL

John

Originally Posted by OptimumRC

Just out of curiosity, how exactly did you measure the coefficient of friction of shafts and spacers?

Originally Posted by shagnat

Thanks for those who offered real help. FYI, the AE guy on you tube was shown using bladders in the V2 shocks that had the bleeder caps........ JUST FYI.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hU6B9Z62hw

BTW, for those who didn't read all my posts, I DID have the manual in front of me, soooooooo.........

Originally Posted by shagnat

Thanks for those who offered real help. FYI, the AE guy on you tube was shown using bladders in the V2 shocks that had the bleeder caps........ JUST FYI.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hU6B9Z62hw

BTW, for those who didn't read all my posts, I DID have the manual in front of me, soooooooo.........

Originally Posted by John Bolten

Its a general statement from the type of material used.

Originally Posted by shagnat

Thanks for those who offered real help. FYI, the AE guy on you tube was shown using bladders in the V2 shocks that had the bleeder caps........ JUST FYI.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hU6B9Z62hw

BTW, for those who didn't read all my posts, I DID have the manual in front of me, soooooooo.........

Originally Posted by shagnat

Thanks for those who offered real help. FYI, the AE guy on you tube was shown using bladders in the V2 shocks that had the bleeder caps........ JUST FYI.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hU6B9Z62hw

BTW, for those who didn't read all my posts, I DID have the manual in front of me, soooooooo.........

Originally Posted by shagnat

Thanks for those who offered real help. FYI, the AE guy on you tube was shown using bladders in the V2 shocks that had the bleeder caps........ JUST FYI.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hU6B9Z62hw

BTW, for those who didn't read all my posts, I DID have the manual in front of me, soooooooo.........

Originally Posted by OptimumRC

Ah, that makes more sense, because I could imagine measuring the drag of each of those would be very difficult due to their size.

One think I would note that it does not sound like you accounted was how silicone oil, or even green slime significantly reduces coefficient of friction. So the material choice may be less important but the function of the bushing to support and ensure shock shaft concentricity is VERY IMPORTANT!

Looks like a good product!

Originally Posted by FACTORYBUTNOT

So I think I must have missed something here...how much of a lap time improvement was there by running the smoother shocks?

I build my shocks with the stock AE parts and they are really smooth.