Novak Ballistic 550 4.5T enough with 25C 4000mah LiPO?
10-12-2011, 06:56 PM
#16
25C x 4000mAh = 100A draw
At 7.2v that would be a motor power requirement of a 720 watt motor.
Check the motor chart. The Novak Ballistic 4.5 states 890 watts. I'd go 30C 4000mAh or 25C 5000mAh. The 25C would probably warm up well and possibly puff if really pushed hard.
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...spec_chart.htm
At 7.2v that would be a motor power requirement of a 720 watt motor.
Check the motor chart. The Novak Ballistic 4.5 states 890 watts. I'd go 30C 4000mAh or 25C 5000mAh. The 25C would probably warm up well and possibly puff if really pushed hard.
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...spec_chart.htm
10-13-2011, 05:41 PM
#17
Everyone who quotes those power numbers off that chart fails to pay attention to the fact that those watt ratings are at 14.4V (look at footnote 3) even though Novak no longer rates the HV4.5 for more than 2S LiPo. Half the voltage - half the wattage, so an HV4.5 on 2S is probably rated at 445 watts.
1st the wattage doesn't change as the volts change, only the amps. The easies thing and i know ot's not the same because loads chacge etc. let's say a house hold light bulb rated at 100 watts. watts / volts = amps 100w/ 120v =.83 amps. if you lower the voltage the light is still pulling 100 watts but because the voltage drops the amps go up. 100w / 75v = 1.3 amps. This goes the same for any electrical device.
2nd. this thread has been dead for more than a year....???
10-13-2011, 09:08 PM
#19
2 things.
1st the wattage doesn't change as the volts change, only the amps. The easies thing and i know ot's not the same because loads chacge etc. let's say a house hold light bulb rated at 100 watts. watts / volts = amps 100w/ 120v =.83 amps. if you lower the voltage the light is still pulling 100 watts but because the voltage drops the amps go up. 100w / 75v = 1.3 amps. This goes the same for any electrical device.
1st the wattage doesn't change as the volts change, only the amps. The easies thing and i know ot's not the same because loads chacge etc. let's say a house hold light bulb rated at 100 watts. watts / volts = amps 100w/ 120v =.83 amps. if you lower the voltage the light is still pulling 100 watts but because the voltage drops the amps go up. 100w / 75v = 1.3 amps. This goes the same for any electrical device.
It is exactly true that to produce X watts (lets say 200), you need twice as many amps at 7.2V as you do at 14.4V.
But the watt rating of these motors isn't limited by how much power they can produce. It is limited by how much heat they can absorb and dissipate. If you read those footnotes they say the rating is power output for 6 minutes. Why specify a time? Because the current flowing through an HV4.5 at 14.4V to produce 890 watts output (which, using a 90% efficiency is (890 / .9) / 14.4 = 68.7 amps). will heat the motor up to its maximum allowable/safe temperature in those 6 minutes. (If they specified only 3 minutes, the rating could be higher, if for 10 minutes, the rating would be lower.)
If you tried to get that same 890 watts out of the motor on 7.2V, you would have to double the amperage (as noted by your formula), to about 137.4 amps. The motor simply can't tolerate doubling the current (and doubling the heat that current produces because of the inernal resistance of the motor) and stay cool enough to work and be usable for 6 minutes (the rated time).
So when you halve the voltage, you halve the rated output of the motor because the limit of rated output is based on heat generation & dissipation. Note that if the motor could tolerate 137.4 amps for 6 minutes, it would be rated at 1780 watts (at 14.4V) for 6 minutes, not 890 watts.
This is why people with experience with the larger scales prefer higher voltage: It takes lass current to get the same watts and less current means less heat generated by the motor.
10-13-2011, 09:37 PM
#20
You learn something new every day. Ta Man, No argument there. you are right, I did miss read teh post anyway. But still
DID ANYBODY NOTICE THE THREAD HAS BEEN DEAD FOR A YEAR!!! Your mostly replying to people who aren't listining
DID ANYBODY NOTICE THE THREAD HAS BEEN DEAD FOR A YEAR!!! Your mostly replying to people who aren't listining
10-25-2011, 09:34 AM
#21
Tech Apprentice
can it really be the "ultimate" if it can only handle a 2s?
since y'all opened it back up (and I'm glad you did, I found this while researching amperage requirements), I've a question.
I'm fairly new back to the RC hobby, and i just bought a Havoc Pro/ Ballistic 550 combo for my Losi, and while trying to figure the best mah/ c ratio, I found out that you can't use more than a 2s with the motor???????? This is pretty new motor correct? How can such a talked up, supposedly super star combo, from such a good company, be so under- engineered? I gather the motor overheats on a 3s, would adding a fan take care of the issue?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know that 99.9% of the time, a 2s is all I'm going to want/ need in the truck, but sometimes you want to get out and just hammer down, or go run it at the bmx track, and for that kind of money, shouldn't I reasonably expect to be able to do just that?
Forgive me if I'm stating my case badly, it's pretty late over here and I'm tired, definately not "mad", more like... disappointed?
Anyway, thx.
Brad
I'm fairly new back to the RC hobby, and i just bought a Havoc Pro/ Ballistic 550 combo for my Losi, and while trying to figure the best mah/ c ratio, I found out that you can't use more than a 2s with the motor???????? This is pretty new motor correct? How can such a talked up, supposedly super star combo, from such a good company, be so under- engineered? I gather the motor overheats on a 3s, would adding a fan take care of the issue?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know that 99.9% of the time, a 2s is all I'm going to want/ need in the truck, but sometimes you want to get out and just hammer down, or go run it at the bmx track, and for that kind of money, shouldn't I reasonably expect to be able to do just that?
Forgive me if I'm stating my case badly, it's pretty late over here and I'm tired, definately not "mad", more like... disappointed?
Anyway, thx.
Brad
10-25-2011, 09:47 AM
#22
since y'all opened it back up (and I'm glad you did, I found this while researching amperage requirements), I've a question.
I'm fairly new back to the RC hobby, and i just bought a Havoc Pro/ Ballistic 550 combo for my Losi, and while trying to figure the best mah/ c ratio, I found out that you can't use more than a 2s with the motor???????? This is pretty new motor correct? How can such a talked up, supposedly super star combo, from such a good company, be so under- engineered? I gather the motor overheats on a 3s, would adding a fan take care of the issue?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know that 99.9% of the time, a 2s is all I'm going to want/ need in the truck, but sometimes you want to get out and just hammer down, or go run it at the bmx track, and for that kind of money, shouldn't I reasonably expect to be able to do just that?
Forgive me if I'm stating my case badly, it's pretty late over here and I'm tired, definately not "mad", more like... disappointed?
Anyway, thx.
Brad
I'm fairly new back to the RC hobby, and i just bought a Havoc Pro/ Ballistic 550 combo for my Losi, and while trying to figure the best mah/ c ratio, I found out that you can't use more than a 2s with the motor???????? This is pretty new motor correct? How can such a talked up, supposedly super star combo, from such a good company, be so under- engineered? I gather the motor overheats on a 3s, would adding a fan take care of the issue?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know that 99.9% of the time, a 2s is all I'm going to want/ need in the truck, but sometimes you want to get out and just hammer down, or go run it at the bmx track, and for that kind of money, shouldn't I reasonably expect to be able to do just that?
Forgive me if I'm stating my case badly, it's pretty late over here and I'm tired, definately not "mad", more like... disappointed?
Anyway, thx.
Brad
Have you ran it on 2S yet?
I really doubt it because these motors are off the chain on 2S!
3S would seriously be overkill! SERIOUSLY!
They would just be UNCONTROLLABLE!
If you really MUST use 3S, then buy a 6.5t motor, that one I do believe can handle 3S power...
10-25-2011, 11:08 AM
#23
since y'all opened it back up (and I'm glad you did, I found this while researching amperage requirements), I've a question.
I'm fairly new back to the RC hobby, and i just bought a Havoc Pro/ Ballistic 550 combo for my Losi, and while trying to figure the best mah/ c ratio, I found out that you can't use more than a 2s with the motor???????? This is pretty new motor correct? How can such a talked up, supposedly super star combo, from such a good company, be so under- engineered? I gather the motor overheats on a 3s, would adding a fan take care of the issue?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know that 99.9% of the time, a 2s is all I'm going to want/ need in the truck, but sometimes you want to get out and just hammer down, or go run it at the bmx track, and for that kind of money, shouldn't I reasonably expect to be able to do just that?
Forgive me if I'm stating my case badly, it's pretty late over here and I'm tired, definately not "mad", more like... disappointed?
Anyway, thx.
Brad
I'm fairly new back to the RC hobby, and i just bought a Havoc Pro/ Ballistic 550 combo for my Losi, and while trying to figure the best mah/ c ratio, I found out that you can't use more than a 2s with the motor???????? This is pretty new motor correct? How can such a talked up, supposedly super star combo, from such a good company, be so under- engineered? I gather the motor overheats on a 3s, would adding a fan take care of the issue?
I'm not trying to be a dick here, and I know that 99.9% of the time, a 2s is all I'm going to want/ need in the truck, but sometimes you want to get out and just hammer down, or go run it at the bmx track, and for that kind of money, shouldn't I reasonably expect to be able to do just that?
Forgive me if I'm stating my case badly, it's pretty late over here and I'm tired, definately not "mad", more like... disappointed?
Anyway, thx.
Brad
Actually, the Ballistic 550 is just a 2nd generation model of the orginal HV550 series. Yes, the original HV4.5 550 was marketed for use on 4S (actually 12->14 NiMH cells), but it was intended and designed for speed runs (with cool-down in between) in a vehicle that had a slipper clutch. When people tried to use it outside its design limits (outside its "Optimized for" range), it overheated and frequently failed.
As the other poster said, if you want to run 3S get a motor and ESC designed for that, not one designed and optimized for 2S. I run 3S in my SCTE but I am using the Castle SCT Pro system (2400KV motor) that is designed for that.
No matter how much you spend, you shouldn't "reasonably expect" something to operate (and last) when used outside its design limits. If you knew you would want to run 3S you should have done the research (read about the products you planned to purchase) to make sure they met your needs before you spent the money for them.
11-01-2011, 11:55 AM
#24
Tech Apprentice
Why in the world would you think that you NEED to run this on 3S?
Have you ran it on 2S yet?
I really doubt it because these motors are off the chain on 2S!
3S would seriously be overkill! SERIOUSLY!
They would just be UNCONTROLLABLE!
If you really MUST use 3S, then buy a 6.5t motor, that one I do believe can handle 3S power...
Have you ran it on 2S yet?
I really doubt it because these motors are off the chain on 2S!
3S would seriously be overkill! SERIOUSLY!
They would just be UNCONTROLLABLE!
If you really MUST use 3S, then buy a 6.5t motor, that one I do believe can handle 3S power...
Anyway, sounds like the Novak should be fun, just not sure I want to risk blowing it up over here... Guess I'll have to run it a couple times and see how hot it gets... It does have the 14mm shaft, and a 16t pinion, so that might help?....
thx for the reply
11-01-2011, 12:00 PM
#25
Tech Apprentice
Another take on "under engineered" might be "Optimized exactly for its intended use."
Actually, the Ballistic 550 is just a 2nd generation model of the orginal HV550 series. Yes, the original HV4.5 550 was marketed for use on 4S (actually 12->14 NiMH cells), but it was intended and designed for speed runs (with cool-down in between) in a vehicle that had a slipper clutch. When people tried to use it outside its design limits (outside its "Optimized for" range), it overheated and frequently failed.
As the other poster said, if you want to run 3S get a motor and ESC designed for that, not one designed and optimized for 2S. I run 3S in my SCTE but I am using the Castle SCT Pro system (2400KV motor) that is designed for that.
No matter how much you spend, you shouldn't "reasonably expect" something to operate (and last) when used outside its design limits. If you knew you would want to run 3S you should have done the research (read about the products you planned to purchase) to make sure they met your needs before you spent the money for them.
Actually, the Ballistic 550 is just a 2nd generation model of the orginal HV550 series. Yes, the original HV4.5 550 was marketed for use on 4S (actually 12->14 NiMH cells), but it was intended and designed for speed runs (with cool-down in between) in a vehicle that had a slipper clutch. When people tried to use it outside its design limits (outside its "Optimized for" range), it overheated and frequently failed.
As the other poster said, if you want to run 3S get a motor and ESC designed for that, not one designed and optimized for 2S. I run 3S in my SCTE but I am using the Castle SCT Pro system (2400KV motor) that is designed for that.
No matter how much you spend, you shouldn't "reasonably expect" something to operate (and last) when used outside its design limits. If you knew you would want to run 3S you should have done the research (read about the products you planned to purchase) to make sure they met your needs before you spent the money for them.
Sorry... not trying to be an ass, but I don't like being called a dumbass either... so take a look at the following information that I found during the research I did prior to my purchase....
Motor Specifications:
Number of turns: 4.5T
Design: Sensor-based (compatible with any sensored brushless ESC, such as Havoc Pro, GTB & Havoc 3S)
Input Voltage: 2S-3S Li-Po (#3504 & #3505)
Magnet: One-piece, multi-pole Neodymium
Watts: 890 (#3504)
Kv (unloaded): 5,000 (#3504)
Motor size: 2.84”, 72.1mm (length); 1.41”, 35.8mm (diameter)
Shaft diameter: 5mm
Motor weight: 10.1 oz. (286.3 grams)
that's information copied DIRECTLY off of a Novak information sheet, that's STILL posted today... see there where it says "input voltage: 2s-3s lipo"?
SO, if NOVAK thought they'd engineered the product to handle 3s... why should I doubt them? I should have been able to "reasonably expect" they're product to live up to their stated claims. So yea, I'd say "under-engineered", as in, it does NOT live up the expectations and stated claims of the designer... That said, I have been reading about motors, esc's, Li-Po's, chargers, set-ups, tires, and every other freaking thing about these cars hours on end for about a month now, so in all likely hood, I probably saved an out of date spec sheet, that doesn't change the fact that it's still on the internet, at a reputable hobby dealer, and thus, what I based my purchase off of.
NOW, I just came back in off mission... SO, I may have read your post wrong, and you may not have meant to have been attempting to dog me out, but that's how I'm currently taking it. If I'm wrong, I sincerely, and utterly apologize, and will do so privately, publicly, or however you would like.... If not, please refer to my initial statement, where I said I was fairly new to RC, and keep that in mind, then next time you decide to try to belittle someone, as they may NOT have done their research, they may in fact be a younger child or teenager, who's looking up to the people on this board for direction and information, and encouragement, not someone to make them feel stupid, and please refrain from doing so.
thank you
Brad
11-02-2011, 06:38 AM
#26
First.. let's keep this cool guys if you so chooes to persue a disagreement please take it to PM.
Second, I dont care about what others think it's just my opinion but I personally appreciate what you do and want to thank you. I believe people don''t have to support a war but should support the people as they are our neighbors friends and family.
The 4.5t motor is a pretty "hot/fast" motor, like it was posted earlier kind of ment for speed runs. Motors run on a slide type scale the higher the turn the higher the torque but less top end so you can gear up. The lower the Turn the lower the torque but higher top end but more heat generated too. You can run your motor on 3s in your truck, but in your climate keep your gear ratio low and check your temps often. Once you get it right you won't have to check it as often.
When you go to race most tracks will limit you to 2s. This motor may be too much for racing also, but that's somethinng you will have to find out when you get on a track.
Second, I dont care about what others think it's just my opinion but I personally appreciate what you do and want to thank you. I believe people don''t have to support a war but should support the people as they are our neighbors friends and family.
The 4.5t motor is a pretty "hot/fast" motor, like it was posted earlier kind of ment for speed runs. Motors run on a slide type scale the higher the turn the higher the torque but less top end so you can gear up. The lower the Turn the lower the torque but higher top end but more heat generated too. You can run your motor on 3s in your truck, but in your climate keep your gear ratio low and check your temps often. Once you get it right you won't have to check it as often.
When you go to race most tracks will limit you to 2s. This motor may be too much for racing also, but that's somethinng you will have to find out when you get on a track.
11-03-2011, 03:38 PM
#27
Tech Apprentice
First.. let's keep this cool guys if you so chooes to persue a disagreement please take it to PM.
Second, I dont care about what others think it's just my opinion but I personally appreciate what you do and want to thank you. I believe people don''t have to support a war but should support the people as they are our neighbors friends and family.
The 4.5t motor is a pretty "hot/fast" motor, like it was posted earlier kind of ment for speed runs. Motors run on a slide type scale the higher the turn the higher the torque but less top end so you can gear up. The lower the Turn the lower the torque but higher top end but more heat generated too. You can run your motor on 3s in your truck, but in your climate keep your gear ratio low and check your temps often. Once you get it right you won't have to check it as often.
When you go to race most tracks will limit you to 2s. This motor may be too much for racing also, but that's somethinng you will have to find out when you get on a track.
Second, I dont care about what others think it's just my opinion but I personally appreciate what you do and want to thank you. I believe people don''t have to support a war but should support the people as they are our neighbors friends and family.
The 4.5t motor is a pretty "hot/fast" motor, like it was posted earlier kind of ment for speed runs. Motors run on a slide type scale the higher the turn the higher the torque but less top end so you can gear up. The lower the Turn the lower the torque but higher top end but more heat generated too. You can run your motor on 3s in your truck, but in your climate keep your gear ratio low and check your temps often. Once you get it right you won't have to check it as often.
When you go to race most tracks will limit you to 2s. This motor may be too much for racing also, but that's somethinng you will have to find out when you get on a track.
As to the Novak, I'm not interested in doing anything that'll put it at risk, so I'll just stick to the 2s. Been reading up on the Tekin 4 pole, and waiting to see what's up with the Viper sensored 4 pole, so it should be ok until they come out, then I'll most likely pick one or the other up, and x-fer my Novak into my SCRT. Then again, who knows, I may get it, and love the hell out of it, but from what I've been reading about the 4-poles, they seem to be the way to go.
Anyway, thx for the reply, and I apologize for getting "hot".
Brad
11-04-2011, 06:49 AM
#28
It's not just you. It's hard to type exactly what you mean especially since no one cant tell the "Tone" you have to distinguish how you are saying it, And some are just WAY too sensitive. About your motor, yeah, don't run 3s in your SCT, The isn't really intended for that truck. Get your 4 pole, from what i hear you can't not like it.
11-04-2011, 08:43 AM
#29
I would run over a 30c battery for zero cogging... My 2 cents
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