R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-24-2004, 01:18 AM   #1
Tech Elite
 
STEALTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila & California
Posts: 3,019
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Thumbs up Brushless Class At U.S. Nationals!

Great to see a Brushless Class at this year's Nationals down in ARCOR, New Mexico!!! It's just a "Demonstration Class" as they call it... but it's a Fantastic start! Seeing that Novak is a Headline Sponsor, it's a good way for them to fully expose their amazing product! If anyone is interested in joining it, you can call the track at this number: (505) 898-6181 or sign up on the ALBUQUERQUE RADIO CONTROLLED OFF-ROAD RACEWAY website:


http://rcdirttrack.com/arcor/


Here is some pertinent info mentioned at their website:


"We are pleased to offer a Brushless Motor demo class at this year's event._ If you haven't signed up for the class yet, it isn't too late. We have worked with Novak (one of our headline sponsors) to provide general guidelines for this class._ It is our understanding that Novak electronics and motors are the first to comply with these rules that
ROAR is working to establish.

It should be noted that the demo classes are completely separate from the normal National event.

Here are the details of the class:


* Classes offered: Brushless Truck and Brushless Buggy
* 20 entry max in each class
* $30/entry
* There are no handout tires for this class
* Novak will provide trophies for the class
* There will not be AAA mains for the class.
* These classes do not count towards you 3 entry limit (in other words you can race all three modified classes and these classes too)
* Only Novak brushless speed controls and motors can be used for the class


BRUSHLESS RULES


BRUSHLESS ELECTRIC MOTORS

1. Overall maximum diameter is 36.02mm measured at whatever point yields the maximum dimension, excluding solder tabs or lead wires. Maximum length is 53mm measured from the mounting face of the motor to the furthest most point of the end bell, not including solder tabs, lead wires or original manufacturer’s logo or name. Shaft diameter must be 0.125”. Motor mounting holes must be on 1.00- inch centers. Only two pole bonded neodymium or ferrite magnetic rotors are permitted. The stator laminations must be one after another all of the same magnetizable material without anything in between. No split stators allowed. Maximum stator length must be 0.80” +/- 0.01”. Inside diameter of the stator must be 0.5850” +/- 0.0005”. Only three slot “Y” (star) wound stators are permitted. No delta wound stators allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper wire allowed for the stator. . Magnet specifications. Length 1.00” +/- 0.005”. Diameter= 0.5510” +/-0.0040”. Weight of rotor including shaft, hub and magnet =1.00 oz. +/- 0.05oz.

All motors must have the original manufacturer’s logo or name molded into the end bell. Sensored or sensorless motors are allowed. For compatibility purposes, if the motor is sensored it must use a six position JST ZH connector model number ZHR-6 or equivalent connector with 6 JST part number SZH-002T-P0.5 26-28 awg contacts or equivalent. Wire sequence must be as follows. Pin#1- Black wire ground potential, pin #2- orange wire phase C, pin #3- white wire phase B, pin #4- green wire phase A, pin #5- blue wire temp control, 10 k Thermistor referenced to ground potential, pin #6- red wire + 5.0 volts d.c. +/- 10%. Compatible speed control must use the 6 position JST header part number X-6B-ZR-SMX-TF (where the X denotes the style of the header), or equivalent. Motors must be rebuildable

MODIFIED BRUSHLESS MOTORS

1. All modified Brushless Motors must conform to technical specifications in Rule 1 above. For all ROAR sanctioned events, modified Touring Cars will use a stator wind of no less than 6 1/2 continuous turns per slot which is equivalent to the new split magnet 10 turn delta wound brushed motor. An inductance reading is very easily obtained from a Brushless Motor without unsoldering or taking the motor out of the car."



With the length of technicality given, I'm sure it won't be too long before ROAR makes an official Brushless Class at their sanctioned races or maybe (though it's a stretch) even allow them to run with the mods legally!
STEALTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 04:18 PM   #2
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: LI, New York
Posts: 370
Default

I hope brushless class will take off too. I got a novak sitting around for like 6 months collecting dust.
Jasonchi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 05:35 PM   #3
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 321
Default

Hey All

Sounds Great""Until you read NOVAK BRUSHLESS ONLY""...

There not doing anything for the hobby just themselfs...

But its got to Start somewhere!!! I'm glad Novak is doing it though.

They should also have a True Brushless Open Class. But I guess they don't want to get spanked...hahaha There Super Sport is a Great Brushless if your running against 14 or more turn brushed motors!!! But in MOD, 12 turn is the most turns you run depending on the track. Most are running 10-9 turns motors.

I don't have anything against Novak. I've got a Novak Brushless Stocker on order!!! Would really like to know when there True MOD Brushless motor is coming out!!! If it keeps pace with the 9 turn brush motors... YEA!!! I'd get one that day!!!


Great Racing!!!

Brad Gotori
[email protected]
bgotori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 05:41 PM   #4
Tech Elite
 
Aaron Waldron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 3,720
Default

I think the "Novak only" rule is to ensure that everyone is on a level playing field. And yes, the sponsor of the exhibition class should be allowed to mandate the use of their products, it happens in every other class!

(Think the Reedy Sportsman classes at many events, like the Reedy TC ROC, Hot Rod Shootout, etc.)

The majority of Novak brushless systems sold will never see a racetrack. Novak's first motor is aimed at creating a niche in the market, without sacrificing run time and putting the typical hobbyist's car in danger of being broken!
__________________
Aaron Waldron - LiveRC
www.liverc.com
Aaron Waldron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 09:36 PM   #5
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 321
Default

Hey Aaron Waldron

Point well taken!!! Re-Reading my Post, I hope I didn't come off as saying Novak doesn't care about there Customers or Products!!!

Been buying Novak since the olds M410 if I remember correctly...getting old...hahaha Still use it in my 1/12 pan cars Never failed me since day one...

Novak has ALWAYS BEEN FIRST RATE with customer support and questions!!!



Great Racing!!!

Brad Gotori
[email protected]
bgotori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 10:20 PM   #6
Tech Elite
 
STEALTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila & California
Posts: 3,019
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default Re: Brushless Class At U.S. Nationals!

Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH
Novak electronics and motors are the first to comply with these rules that ROAR is working to establish.

With regards to the announcemnt, this is most likely why Novak is the only Brushless Motor at the U.S. Nationals. It will take time... but the change will happen and Brushless motors will prove themselves through their efficiency (longer runtime), less maintenance, and consistency. Much faster Brushless Motors are being developed so speed is not going to be an issue. LRP is developing their own Brushless Motor System and on AE's website Mike Reedy himself is looking to hire someone with Brushelss Technology experience:


"The Reedy Power division of Team Associated is looking for a talented, self-motivated individual to join our motor/electronic research and development team. This is a challenging and rewarding position that helps Associated develop high performance, world championship level products for the future. We require a Bachelor's or higher degree in Electrical Engineering, experience with DC electric motors, DC circuitry, DC control systems and brushless motors. This individual must be willing and able to oversee a project from concept to prototype to production."

Fax resume to:

(714) 850-1744
Attn: Mike Reedy

Mail resume to:

Associated Electrics, Inc.
Attn: Mike Reedy
3585 Cadillac Ave.
Costa Mesa, CA 92626



I could even see an LRP and Reedy partnership in this! A company that specializes in RC electronics teaming up with a leading RC motors division. These companies would not invest the time, money, effort, and other resources to a project that isn't worthwhile and viable. Brushless is the future. Just give it some more time.

STEALTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2004, 12:08 AM   #7
Tech Elite
 
Aaron Waldron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 3,720
Default

LRP is a major player in the motor and battery industry in Europe. I really don't see them jeopardizing that by teaming up with Reedy.
__________________
Aaron Waldron - LiveRC
www.liverc.com
Aaron Waldron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2004, 02:45 AM   #8
Tech Elite
 
STEALTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila & California
Posts: 3,019
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Aaron: They wouldn't be jeopardizing anything by teaming up with Reedy in such a project. If anything, the combination would enhance both companies with their overall product by combining two of the best in their respective businesses. We all know the reputation Reedy has and at the same time LRP is not really known for their motors.... if anything it's their other electronic products. Even at last year's European Championships many top drivers hardly used their motors as compared to the likes of Reedy, Trinity, and Orion. If ever, it's really only in Germany where they might be very popular. People I know who have used LRP motors really have had nothing much to say about them (and honestly, I'm being very kind with my words here). Now that's their opion as they have used and tested the motors. Maybe it's just that LRP hasn't marketed their motors that well or they would like to keep it in a niche market where their product is cheaper in price than those from Reedy and Trinity. LRP makes great ESCs, Chargers, Receivers, and even batteries - they are pushing the new Sanyo 3600 Mah Batts:





But all that being said.... LRP is really best know for their strength in these electronic products.... not motors and their windings. Here is an interesting story for you that was told to me a few months back:

"...........that's funny that you brought up that LRP is devoloping one, i was at SoCal Raceway and the guys form LRP were there and they were testing some ESCs that are supposed to work with a brushless system and a standard motor! so i think that would be pretty awesome and Kurt Wenger a.k.a. K-dub said that brushless is the way of the future it's just going to take some time for it to cross over and for someone to make it feel more like a brush motor (more of a drag brake and a smoother throttle). the guys at LRP were pretty hush hush about the whole setup everytime i would try to take a look, they would cover something up or a guy would step in my view. then Bob Novak showed up and they packed up so quick and got out of there before Bob even knew what was going on......but i think Bob caught word of what they were up to. thats why he showed up!


I think it's a bit more than just a coincidence that Kurt Wenger, who at the time was the AE Team Manger, would be there at SoCal with the LRP guys.... testing a Brushless ESC System? Just curious... but why in the world would LRP be in the L.A. area testing it at SoCal when it's such a secret project of theirs? Why not test it instead over in Germany where they could be much more low-key about it? My guess.... the Reedy R&D Team is based in Southern California. Furthermore, when I mentioned this on the LRP Forum months ago, Reto Koenig (the LRP R&D Manager) quickly and politely contacted me to let me know he was deleting my post on the LRP Forum because it apparently was still such a secret!?!


Last edited by STEALTH; 05-27-2004 at 07:58 PM.
STEALTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2004, 06:12 AM   #9
Tech Legend
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: West Fargo, North Dakota
Posts: 29,541
Trader Rating: 240 (100%+)
Default

I think the main tell-tale sign about the coming brushless revolution was how quickly team trinity went to bash those systems. I really got a kick out of that.
Cain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2004, 09:09 AM   #10
Tech Elite
 
STEALTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila & California
Posts: 3,019
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Cain: You Got That Right! Trinity needs to resort to bashing the overall product (no matter who makes it) cause it's such a threat to a huge division of their overall business. As mentioned on another Forum that you also belong to, "Dan the Man" said it Best with this:

"The reason that Trinity is scared, is they don't have electronics people - they only have motor techs. They make the same thing over and over and tweak it a little with some understanding of what the changes will do. They don't seem to have the expertise on hand to make a new, complicated chunk of electronics. If they teamed up with an electronics company, or started making motors that would work with other peoples' speed controls, they might do all right. But trying to keep this hobby in the 20th century serves no one well in the long run - not even them."


Last edited by STEALTH; 05-27-2004 at 07:56 PM.
STEALTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2004, 10:40 AM   #11
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 321
Default

Hey All

Well this sounds Great!!! LRP, Reedy, and Novak... More Competition leads to better products!!!


Great Racing!!!

Brad Gotori
[email protected]
bgotori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2004, 02:13 PM   #12
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 62
Default

All this is great, except that only 4 buggies and one truck are signed up for the class. With such a poor showing, what is the manufacturer going to think? If I were Novak I sure wouldn't be too happy with that.
gquinlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2004, 01:14 PM   #13
Tech Elite
 
STEALTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manila & California
Posts: 3,019
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default



gquinlan: Remember that the info on the ARCOR website regarding the numbers signed-up for the Brushless Class was last updated about a month ago. Even the Mod 4WD category will change quite a bit as a number of AE Drivers still are not on the list but will definitely race 4WD! One thing Novak should have done is promote the Brushless Class as part of the Nationals. This would have piqued more interest in it for sure! By the time the Nationals do really get going, I am sure Novak will find a way to fill a healthy amount of Brushless racers in both the Buggy and Stadium Truck Brushless Classes.

STEALTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions about brushless and the mod class Josh37 Electric Off-Road 5 08-30-2007 10:38 PM
Promotional Class Added to 2007 ROAR Off Road Electric Nationals Dawn Sanchez Electric Off-Road 57 06-11-2007 06:53 AM
brush and brushless class? maximebeauvais Micro and Mini Scales 6 03-01-2007 08:18 AM
brushless class? :) defender36 MARCCA Discussion 1 03-31-2003 09:13 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:09 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net