80LikesDurango DEX210 Thread
03-01-2014, 08:44 AM
You need to move the battery full forward and add anywhere from 30-45g of weight up front to keep the nose down, and you probably want to run 3 anti squat to give you as much off power steering as possible. We also use 10-15 drag brake to assist with steering. Remember our tracks are technical more point and shoot tracks.
i agree with what you say about wanting a neutral car, but i just don't agree with how you go about it. 4 gear in any motor configuration will shift the weight around way too much to feel neutral. the car naturally wants to understeer on power and oversteer off power with a 4 gear transmission, and anything you do on top of that to mask that natural tendency will just ruin another aspect of your cars handling. it's like building a house on a swamp. you might be able to do it, but you'll make so many compromises that what you end up with is something barely passable as a house.
you are much better off to start out with something that is by nature more neutral feeling. 3 gear counteracts that weight shift to produce a much more neutral driving feel, and you don't need to do goofy things with your car to mask the excessive weight transfer.
with that said, if you're not getting enough rear grip with an rm3 configuration, you're probably not doing something right. rm3 with a battery shoved the whole way back should give you so much traction that you don't know what to do with it.
Last edited by RC10Nick; 03-01-2014 at 09:09 AM.
03-01-2014, 10:57 AM
His setup was running on slicks. If you've got more grip, you'll flip. Hey, that rhymes! 
I honestly don't know how his car drives but just by looking at his setup sheet I can tell I'd hate it. First, and this is a HUGE red flag to me, if the front shocks have more total piston hole area and the front oil weight is higher than the rear, it's crap. This is a very VERY common mistake. Even most pros make it. It is the result of a misunderstanding of how pack relates to piston speed and shock length.
He is clearly trying to run a very low roll center in the front with a higher roll center in the rear. He is running a shorty battery all the way back. With more weight rearwards, he is going to need more roll stiffness but there is a neat phenomenon with the greater front nose kick of 2wd cars that once you get too soft in the suspension, the front will unload on power out of corners no matter what. For carpet, grip isn't lacking. You are proving that with traction rolling.
I'd shift the battery all the way forwards and change to MM3. Run 0 rear kick. Move the front outer hole camber link location to #2. Leave the back alone. Reverse his pistons front to rear. You want the larger holes in back. Adjust the oil accordingly. You will need to balance the spring rates and shock oils. See the tuning with camber links thread for info. Reduce the front caster to 20 degrees. I have no idea why anyone would ever run 30 degrees except on loose dirt with inline steering. That's the only time.
That should get you closer but you'll still need to fine tune things.
I honestly don't know how his car drives but just by looking at his setup sheet I can tell I'd hate it. First, and this is a HUGE red flag to me, if the front shocks have more total piston hole area and the front oil weight is higher than the rear, it's crap. This is a very VERY common mistake. Even most pros make it. It is the result of a misunderstanding of how pack relates to piston speed and shock length.
He is clearly trying to run a very low roll center in the front with a higher roll center in the rear. He is running a shorty battery all the way back. With more weight rearwards, he is going to need more roll stiffness but there is a neat phenomenon with the greater front nose kick of 2wd cars that once you get too soft in the suspension, the front will unload on power out of corners no matter what. For carpet, grip isn't lacking. You are proving that with traction rolling.
I'd shift the battery all the way forwards and change to MM3. Run 0 rear kick. Move the front outer hole camber link location to #2. Leave the back alone. Reverse his pistons front to rear. You want the larger holes in back. Adjust the oil accordingly. You will need to balance the spring rates and shock oils. See the tuning with camber links thread for info. Reduce the front caster to 20 degrees. I have no idea why anyone would ever run 30 degrees except on loose dirt with inline steering. That's the only time.
That should get you closer but you'll still need to fine tune things.
Last edited by thefan; 03-01-2014 at 01:36 PM.
03-02-2014, 01:02 AM
Tech Rookie
Hey guys instead of buying another buggy whats involved in making my V1 a V2
03-02-2014, 02:27 AM
There are also a few type B parts that offer more tuning, easier maintenance or durability increases too.
03-02-2014, 09:01 AM
Tech Rookie
Anyone know the part numbers for the new +8 aluminum chassis and side pods? I cant find them any where
Thanks
Thanks
03-02-2014, 10:02 AM
moving the battery full forward and adding 45g of weight will take maybe 1-2% of your weight off the rear and put it on the front. I know that doesn't sound like a big amount, but it is huge in the way it feels on the track. trust me, i've spent the last year chasing weight distributions on my mid motor car to get it to where it is. i can guarantee you changed your car much more than you think by doing that.
i agree with what you say about wanting a neutral car, but i just don't agree with how you go about it. 4 gear in any motor configuration will shift the weight around way too much to feel neutral. the car naturally wants to understeer on power and oversteer off power with a 4 gear transmission, and anything you do on top of that to mask that natural tendency will just ruin another aspect of your cars handling. it's like building a house on a swamp. you might be able to do it, but you'll make so many compromises that what you end up with is something barely passable as a house.
you are much better off to start out with something that is by nature more neutral feeling. 3 gear counteracts that weight shift to produce a much more neutral driving feel, and you don't need to do goofy things with your car to mask the excessive weight transfer.
We can discuss setup theories all day, but in the end, its the performance on track that counts. I do understand what you are saying, but different tracks call for different setups.
03-02-2014, 10:48 AM
The +8mm chassis, new side pods, front/rear arms, shock towers, front shock bodies/shafts and LRC RR suspension mount would be the main performance changing things that I can think of.
There are also a few type B parts that offer more tuning, easier maintenance or durability increases too.
There are also a few type B parts that offer more tuning, easier maintenance or durability increases too.
03-02-2014, 11:03 AM
Tech Addict
When you download the V2 manual and go to page 40, you can see the typo on the shockbody,
Allso it looks like there are some low profil spring retainers on the V2 aswell!?
I think it is because of the strait front arms and for the lower rear shock tower?
03-02-2014, 11:09 AM
Tech Addict
03-02-2014, 12:52 PM
You have more grip at your track. Hence you can run mid motor. I am sure if we had a track with more grip, I would have used another setup by now. Most US style tracks have been treated so you have more grip than normal. I am speaking about dirt tracks or untreated clay tracks. We have no where the same amount of grip.
03-03-2014, 09:35 AM
While I agree with you that you can successfully run MM on pretty much any track, there could be times that I personally wouldn't. If I ever found a place where I had to run MM4 to make MM work, I wouldn't. I'd go back to RM3. I don't like the way any 4 gear setup drives. 3 gear drives so much more neutral than 4 gear does.
His setup is certainly unique. I'm not going to call it wrong. It's different. What I see isn't a person who is trying to increase rear grip but rather keeping it while increasing front grip off power. I'm not going to call it wrong since it works for him and he obviously likes it. It's not how I personally would do things but there isn't only one way to do things.
His setup is certainly unique. I'm not going to call it wrong. It's different. What I see isn't a person who is trying to increase rear grip but rather keeping it while increasing front grip off power. I'm not going to call it wrong since it works for him and he obviously likes it. It's not how I personally would do things but there isn't only one way to do things.
03-03-2014, 10:21 AM
FWIW, Travis Amezcua TQ'd and won the ChiTown Shootout with a DEX210V2 this past weekend. Lutz came in 2nd. Travis ran RM, Lutz ran MM. Both were insanely quick, but Lutz got the hero lap award by over half a second. Two super cool factory drivers as well, very friendly and helpful to anyone who asked or wanted to talk.
03-03-2014, 10:27 AM
Doesn't MM4 have the same torque vectors as RM3? (Can I say torque vectors?) what I mean to say here is that with MM4 when you mass the throttle the weight transfers to the rear because of the torque of the car. Same as RM3 right?
In my experience if you run MM3 you won't have much control over the car in the air and it may also be more difficult to roll over whoops and rhythm sections. It does drive pretty neutral though. Very flat.
I ran MM3 for a while and never liked how flat the car was, this is was where the RM3 cars seemed to have an advantage. Once I switch to MM4 I was able to rocket out of the corners just like most RM3 cars. I usually run a little bit of anti squat to keep from popping the front up with a wheelie.
In my experience if you run MM3 you won't have much control over the car in the air and it may also be more difficult to roll over whoops and rhythm sections. It does drive pretty neutral though. Very flat.
I ran MM3 for a while and never liked how flat the car was, this is was where the RM3 cars seemed to have an advantage. Once I switch to MM4 I was able to rocket out of the corners just like most RM3 cars. I usually run a little bit of anti squat to keep from popping the front up with a wheelie.
03-03-2014, 10:53 AM
Doesn't MM4 have the same torque vectors as RM3? (Can I say torque vectors?) what I mean to say here is that with MM4 when you mass the throttle the weight transfers to the rear because of the torque of the car. Same as RM3 right?
In my experience if you run MM3 you won't have much control over the car in the air and it may also be more difficult to roll over whoops and rhythm sections. It does drive pretty neutral though. Very flat.
I ran MM3 for a while and never liked how flat the car was, this is was where the RM3 cars seemed to have an advantage. Once I switch to MM4 I was able to rocket out of the corners just like most RM3 cars. I usually run a little bit of anti squat to keep from popping the front up with a wheelie.
In my experience if you run MM3 you won't have much control over the car in the air and it may also be more difficult to roll over whoops and rhythm sections. It does drive pretty neutral though. Very flat.
I ran MM3 for a while and never liked how flat the car was, this is was where the RM3 cars seemed to have an advantage. Once I switch to MM4 I was able to rocket out of the corners just like most RM3 cars. I usually run a little bit of anti squat to keep from popping the front up with a wheelie.
03-03-2014, 03:21 PM
What would you guys use for gearing on a outdoor track with about a 90ft straight. Its my dads car and it will have a traxxas velenion motor in it, so no boost or anything. It has the stock spur as well, Thanks.