R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-16-2009, 04:44 PM   #46
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller_Time View Post
They were blasted for making rulings based on what they felt the class should be, and ignoring what was currently available. A ROAR rep posted in the Electric 8th Scale Conversions thread when this topic originally came up, and said that was their reasoning. They ignored the fact that nearly every current electric 8th buggy would be outlawed by their rulings. That's not healthy for the class or ROAR's image and following.

Rules are needed yes, but they need to be realistic to what is available.
The weight max rule was a mistake.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 04:46 PM   #47
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 477
Default

i have never seen a lipo explode and start a huge fire and all racers had to evacuate the track. LOL people are just to up tight about lipo batteries. heck running a nitro indoors is WAY more dangerus than useing a soft cased lipo. 4-5-6 cell should be a racers choice. my 2 cents
charly71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 04:50 PM   #48
Tech Master
 
Crawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm an A**HOLE!
Posts: 1,828
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
This is what I meant by the brushles/LiPo analogy. With these technologies ROAR was blasted for waiting too late and not being proactive. Now they are blasted for the opposite.
IMO, ROAR for all of the great things it has done, has really alienated the racers w/ it's maddening decisions.

ROAR was WAY late to the game on brushless and lipo technology and then choose poorly on their standards (IMO). Now they are over compensating by trying to jump on 1/8 electric.

READ what these guys are saying! We are the driving force behind this class period! It didn't exist before we created it.

If ROAR makes poor choices again, it will only get ignored more so than it dos now.

Hard case lipos need to go away!

Weight limits are a joke!

Cell limits at this time don't make sense!
__________________
RCShortCourse.com

550 Mafia.
Crawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:00 PM   #49
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,517
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Browne View Post
On that - we can disagree. On both counts. But in a nice way

A true beginner class is the Slash - I love my Slash. $200 of pure fun.

Nothing more I need to say - ta ta, for now. Oh ya, we're building an electric 1/8th On-Road, too.... Super Fringy!!!
Rich for Presidente!
__________________
Team I'm Over It
racenut123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:06 PM   #50
Tech Master
 
kvrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,000
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

ok here is what i feel is a good set of rules for 1/8 buggy for now. in a year or two maybee some of the battery and motor rules can be more concrete.

basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.

motor, run what you brung

battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.

qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.

MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.

the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.

limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
kvrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:09 PM   #51
Tech Regular
 
ALLERACER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 329
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I too dissagree with the hardcase. I would be ok with a battery case built for the car that you could take your pack out and inspect it for damage. Why on earth would you want to pay for a hardcase for each pack and not be able to inspect the battery for damage? I also think having a hard case would cause problems not prevent them. Batteries in a hard case cant be cooled like exposed packs. I've had some horribly damaged lipo packs from plane crashes, I wouldnt run them but a friend of mine does and some preform better than some new packs. Having a lipo catch on fire because of being smashed is VERY rare. Improper charging and insuffecient cooling are the main causes of lipo failures. So why would you want to wrap a hard case around your battery?? Makes no sense to me.
ALLERACER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:11 PM   #52
Tech Master
 
Crawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm an A**HOLE!
Posts: 1,828
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvrc View Post
ok here is what i feel is a good set of rules for 1/8 buggy for now. in a year or two maybee some of the battery and motor rules can be more concrete.

basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.

motor, run what you brung

battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.

qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.

MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.

the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.

limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.

Seems more than reasonable to me.
__________________
RCShortCourse.com

550 Mafia.
Crawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:11 PM   #53
Tech Champion
 
teeforb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Diego & Compton CA
Posts: 7,219
Trader Rating: 94 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to teeforb
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvrc View Post
ok here is what i feel is a good set of rules for 1/8 buggy for now. in a year or two maybee some of the battery and motor rules can be more concrete.

basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.

motor, run what you brung

battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.

qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.

MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.

the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.

limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
my only adjustment to ur specs would be to allow up to 15 minutes. we do 15mins at my local track with ZERO issues!!!
__________________
$$ Team High Budget $$
17.5 stock buggy fb page
https://www.facebook.com/groups/17.5stockbuggy/
teeforb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:11 PM   #54
Tech Champion
 
R40Victim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N.W. FL___L.A.___Lower Alabama
Posts: 7,823
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
It can't be an emerging class unless it appeals and is geared so that beginners can become invlolved.

If it remains a class only for experienced it will be like 1/8 on-road which in my opinion is a fringe class is in the U.S.
I understand and somewhat agree with your assertion that Beginners need to "Ease" their way in. Now, even WITH the ROAR rules in place, that still leaves an inexperienced driver with a 7.99 lb land missile, capable of 60 mph with a simple gearing change. Contrast that with the initial cost of a brushless 8th scale. That pretty much means that it is NOT for beginners, and to tell somebody that is down right IRRESPONSIBLE.

We all know 8th scale is appealing for many reasons, one of which is durability. These things are virtual TANKS! This in and of itself may appeal to noobs, but it certainly wouldn't convince somebody to drop two grand on one.

I understand the idea is Safety first; Fun and Fairness to follow. I believe this will be up to the local racers to decide who "should" enter this class. Not to exclude anyone, that's the last thing we want. But we do need to explain to these potential racers, that these are NOT TOYS.
R40Victim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:17 PM   #55
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: waterford mi.
Posts: 263
Trader Rating: 62 (100%+)
Default 1/8

[QUOTE=lxmuff;5440335]You know, this HARD CASE thing is so contradicting. If anything, it should be a SOFT PADDED CASING to absorb impact!!! DUH

leave it alone thanks to dan and tom for even creating these cars for us let it develop more before you set down all your rules roar

Last edited by oneblackram; 02-16-2009 at 05:23 PM. Reason: mistakes made
oneblackram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:20 PM   #56
Tech Master
 
drperry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 1,222
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to drperry Send a message via MSN to drperry Send a message via Yahoo to drperry
Default

6S should be the max...

Otherwise you'll have people who are running 10S setups...

Or possibly limit the maximum motor RPM with the kV x voltage = RPM formula...

Limit it to 50000 RPM or something.

2200kV x 22.2V = 48840 RPM

That way people can run 4 - 6S and not have to worry...
__________________
RC18MT - Tekin FX/Stock motor
Yokomo MR-4TC SD CM Novak GTB/LRP X-11 13.5 brushless
E-Jato - Diff still unloads in corners, with 100k weight oil in it!
drperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:24 PM   #57
Tech Regular
 
eXraycer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney, AU
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman View Post
Maybe we need another spec class for 1/8th
I think a spec class will emerge and be quite successful eventually but for now I like the idea of seeing what the fastest guys around the track end up with on their setups. I'm thinking the land missiles will not be competitive but the flipside is that the owner of those outrageous setups might be less than professional drivers too and general track rules might already cover unsafe and penalise reckless driving.
Note: The cell count is not a good indicator of whether the person has an outrageously powerful setup and/or is unsafe to compete with because P=VI so there is an accomplice in that equation of being too powerful.

Hardcases?
What about a compromise?
Lets say we get a sheet of 1mm lexan and fold that around our softpacks. A downloadable or printed instruction sheet on how to fold it around your battery. You could do it on race day if you didn't know it was required providing someone had a supply of lexan sheets at the track.
Some heat sheild tape or gaffa tape will keep it on and three battery straps to secure it. I now it's nothing like a professionally made hardcase but you gotta admit, whilst it is strapped inside a battery compartment it would provide a much greater degree of puncture and impact protection.

Hold on guys, let me strap on my lexan chest plate before you reply.
__________________
Rok Rc Tuning Parts for large scale off-road racing. Rok Solid parts for Rok Hard racers.
eXraycer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:24 PM   #58
Tech Master
 
kvrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,000
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

teeforb.... my main reason for 10 minute max is we need to respect the other electric classes out there as well. how did you feel when you had 5 minute electric cars and had to marshall long nitro mains? also it dosent push a 4s 5000 setup which is the most popular.

as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
kvrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:30 PM   #59
Tech Fanatic
 
bradfox2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SRS,Az
Posts: 752
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvrc View Post
teeforb.... my main reason for 10 minute max is we need to respect the other electric classes out there as well. how did you feel when you had 5 minute electric cars and had to marshall long nitro mains? also it dosent push a 4s 5000 setup which is the most popular.

as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.

here at srs, which is definetely in the top 5 best and recognized electric tracks, electric 1.8th has grown from 2 people a year ago, to over 12-15 people today with more coming. It is definetely emerging and growing.

Having a 10 min main is too short, 15 min is better. Here they run 15 min mains for trucks, buggys and 4wd. 15 min is in range of 4s 5000 when setup properly.
__________________
8ight-E 2.0, Tekin RX8 1350-T, 13/46, 6s zippy/neu power, fut. 4pk
bradfox2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2009, 05:33 PM   #60
Tech Master
 
ZERTA RACING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,236
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R40Victim View Post
I understand and somewhat agree with your assertion that Beginners need to "Ease" their way in. Now, even WITH the ROAR rules in place, that still leaves an inexperienced driver with a 7.99 lb land missile, capable of 60 mph with a simple gearing change. Contrast that with the initial cost of a brushless 8th scale. That pretty much means that it is NOT for beginners, and to tell somebody that is down right IRRESPONSIBLE.

We all know 8th scale is appealing for many reasons, one of which is durability. These things are virtual TANKS! This in and of itself may appeal to noobs, but it certainly wouldn't convince somebody to drop two grand on one.

I understand the idea is Safety first; Fun and Fairness to follow. I believe this will be up to the local racers to decide who "should" enter this class. Not to exclude anyone, that's the last thing we want. But we do need to explain to these potential racers, that these are NOT TOYS.


i am a noob and i drive a land missile BUT i have done hours upon hours of research and understand allot about these cars. THEY ARE TOYS thats why we buy them for fun right? i wouldn't drop this much money into something that was a PITA would you? there should be no ruling to who can race i mean if you showed up and someone told you that you couldn't race because you were a noob wouldn't you be mad? if they are really that bad of a driver you could make a beginner class but like you stated no beginner is going to drop a grand minimum in to there car(except me ). as for rules throw them out the window let the class progess, when my dad used to race they could do anything to the cars, now every little thing has a rule next thing you know there will be a rule for what you can wear to the track . like in baja racing there is a class 1 that resembles the truggys and buggys in RC guess what they are unlimited to what you can do. so like allot of people stated above let the class's progress then set rules based upon what works not what they think will work, just my 00.0000002c

-Thomas Jones
__________________
TEKNO RC
Customer Service Representative
Web: www.teknorc.com
Contact: [email protected]
Tel: (858) 997-0833
ZERTA RACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric 1/8th Scale conversion kits. DJ1978 Electric Off-Road 19923 06-12-2017 06:16 AM
C Rating battery craze! True or untrue!! Bulldawg RC Electric Off-Road 236 03-11-2009 01:44 PM
2009 CANADIAN WINTER NATIONALS martyman Canadian R/C Scene 1027 03-10-2009 01:39 PM
What Will a Factory Electric 1/8th Look Like? Edumakated Electric Off-Road 15 04-16-2008 09:39 AM
ROAR B/L motor Rules debate thread C_O_jones Electric On-Road 1080 01-21-2008 08:00 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:38 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net