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Old 02-18-2009, 08:53 AM   #166
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Jon above(Deskwarmer) runs Losi with a 1512, 5000 4s pack, and on my same track runs out of poop at 13min also.

Come to our track, and run at race-pace, and then tell US we have something wrong with our cars. My car is DIALED.

We are not the only ones having this happen as posted by a few other people here. If I run at your track I bet I CAN run for 15min.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:59 AM   #167
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Right after I win the lotto, I'll come kick your butts with my car!
Your ON!
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:48 AM   #168
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I'm not trying to argue, you're right about it being hard to compare apple to oranges so to speak. I'm trying to figure out why you don't get nearly the run time I do. You're getting about HALF what I get. That doesn't seem a little strange to you? Here, look at this video. Its my car, on my track, and typical of how I run it. Tell me, does it look like I'm "Wussy-footing" it around the track? Does it appear under geared, or like something strange is going on?

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


here's the very first time I ran it at the track:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I know my track isn't all that big, but it's technical. Listen to it in the vid, you can hear how often I'm accelerating.






Im not saying people cant make 15 min on 4s 5000 but that track is pretty small.

Running a 4s 5000 at say like the nitro pit, or rev would be pretty hard to do 15 min consistently. those tracks are easily 4x the size of that track in the vids

the pit: though its at an angle, for scale that white water tank to the right is like 10 ft high and 30 ft long
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:16 AM   #169
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The Saturday club races at our track have 5 minute qual. and anywhere from 10-25 min. mains. If a slow day then longer mains, if crowded then less but at least a minimum of 10 minutes for the beginner/novice and 15 form the upper classes. They allow electric and nitro to run together. If we are in a longer main we just limit the practice laps, once during a main we dumped and DNF that is the way it goes sometimes kinda like a nitro flameout. It is not the tracks fault it is ours. I will not ask the track to adjust for me. Adjust for a whole class if enough show up yes, but for 1 or 2 electrics no.

On bigger race days the mains run 45 minutes. If we want to compete we play by their rules for now. Until enough electrics start showing up the nitro rules will prevail.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:59 AM   #170
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This is the outdoor track I run at and was getting 15 minutes with the 1512 2.5d and 4s 5000. It is one of the larger tracks in the country. www.leisurehoursraceway.com

It wouldn't surprise me if the 2.5d and a 5000 pack dumped a little before 15 minutes in certain conditions at other large tracks depending on battery quality and LVC. I never had a problem with it though.

I have consistently burned 210/mah with the 5s and 1512 3d (1700kv). I changed over to the 2.5d (2050kv) and ran it on 5s geared appropriately around 40mph and my efficiency dropped a bit as I burned 271/mah per minute due to the increased RPMS. 31,000 vs 37,000. Just some food for thought.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:25 AM   #171
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not thinking you are trying to argue. messaging doesn't have any context, so you can't get a feel for how someone is saying something, just what they are saying.

I posted a vid on the 1/8 scale electric thread that someone took at the last race I attended at the Red Horse Ranch Arena in Fergus Falls MN. the straight was about 200 ft and the track had technical sections.

A similar track size track to this is where I got 18 minutes or so of runtime with a 4S PQ6000XP 25C pack and a Neu 1512 2.5D motor in my RC8 RCPD conversion. My LVC was 12.8V and I was using 20% punch control.

All I in all, I think everyone here can agree that it has happened that guys running 4S 5000mah packs with conservative motor setups have dumped prior to 15 minute mark. I haven't heard of anyone yet though that has done this at the 10 minute mark.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:31 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by bradfox2 View Post
Im not saying people cant make 15 min on 4s 5000 but that track is pretty small.

Running a 4s 5000 at say like the nitro pit, or rev would be pretty hard to do 15 min consistently. those tracks are easily 4x the size of that track in the vids

the pit: though its at an angle, for scale that white water tank to the right is like 10 ft high and 30 ft long
I bet I could still make it. I'm getting nearly DOUBLE the run time some others on here are getting. That tells me it's not just the track. Even with a large track like that, you still run for the same time. I spend a lot of time accelerating and braking on our tight, technical layouts. That uses more energy than just driving long subtle lines.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:55 AM   #173
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Here's where we are at IMO.

Some are arguing about how long a race MOST of us can do, or what we all SHOULD be able to do, etc...

If it were just up to me, I would want at least 15min mains. At my local track, I would push for 20min.

But, we have to look at what is best for the CLASS.... and IMO that means shorter races so that dumping is not a concern. 10 or 12 minutes.... and everyone can race and have fun without all the fretting over setup and driving strategy.

As far as class division, I don't see that happening (based on motor like 1/10). When there is enough numbers, we will see it follow nitros and divide into Sportsman and Expert.

OH... and I don't agree that 1/8 run longer mains BECAUSE they are more durable vs. 1/10... it's simply a fuel powered thing. Now we even have long mains sometimes in 1/10 racing... with the brushless and lipo technology that allows it to finally work.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:06 PM   #174
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OH... and I don't agree that 1/8 run longer mains BECAUSE they are more durable vs. 1/10... it's simply a fuel powered thing. Now we even have long mains sometimes in 1/10 racing... with the brushless and lipo technology that allows it to finally work.
True enough, we used to race 1/10 3 hour endurance races in the early 90's w/ our NiCd packs! I bet we could do 5 hour races w/o issue now.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:06 PM   #175
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I'll race at Rev this weekend, so i'll see what's the difference in runtime...
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:29 PM   #176
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I'll race at Rev this weekend, so i'll see what's the difference in runtime...
I will see you there. We will not be able to race but will be there towards the end of the racing for open practice. Just look for the 6 year old kid running a orange/yellow Losi 8 with a Tekno conversion, I'll have the Losi 8 with the stock RTR body and a RCD conversion!!
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:20 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by glassdoctor View Post
Here's where we are at IMO.

Some are arguing about how long a race MOST of us can do, or what we all SHOULD be able to do, etc...

If it were just up to me, I would want at least 15min mains. At my local track, I would push for 20min.

But, we have to look at what is best for the CLASS.... and IMO that means shorter races so that dumping is not a concern. 10 or 12 minutes.... and everyone can race and have fun without all the fretting over setup and driving strategy.

As far as class division, I don't see that happening (based on motor like 1/10). When there is enough numbers, we will see it follow nitros and divide into Sportsman and Expert.

OH... and I don't agree that 1/8 run longer mains BECAUSE they are more durable vs. 1/10... it's simply a fuel powered thing. Now we even have long mains sometimes in 1/10 racing... with the brushless and lipo technology that allows it to finally work.
+1
I think we def need to keep race times low enough for everyone to finish. Atleast for now until the class gets going well.
I also am not a fan of the hardcase lipo for the same reasons that have been stated previously about not being able to see if they are damaged till its too late. I do however like the idea of some kind of containment system to put the battery into. I think that will take some time to get everyone on the same page, especially with all the di sized bats and trays. Kinda like getting everyone to agree on a race length!
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:15 AM   #178
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Also is it fair that the A-main guys get to marshall a 5 minute race while someone else has to marshall their 60 minute race? Personally I don't mind marshalling but I hear guys complain about it all the time.
I agree, When you have a bad day, the last thing you want to do is stand on a hot dusty track and marshal. I did because it was the rule, but others complained to the point of nearly being asked to leave at our track. A rule had to be imposed, that if you didn't marshal or have someone in your place, you lost a qualifier, second time, full DQ.

I still like the 10 to 15 minute mains, If 10 make it three, Like the 1/10 electric. If 15, make it one and for all, not just the A-main racers. I agree, imposing a weight on batteries will limit too much, I also think getting caught up in the C wars is a bad thing as well. There needs to be an independent service to test and certify the packs, to stop the inflated claims of some companies
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:17 AM   #179
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I will see you there. We will not be able to race but will be there towards the end of the racing for open practice. Just look for the 6 year old kid running a orange/yellow Losi 8 with a Tekno conversion, I'll have the Losi 8 with the stock RTR body and a RCD conversion!!
Looks like I'll see you guys there too! Probably going to race and then stay and practice more.
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:51 AM   #180
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in my eyes a 20-30-45min. nitro amain is to long, the cars get to strung out and there are really only 2-3 guys running on the lead lap at the end of a long main plus all the cars that go out early due to being broke, blown motors and so forth, long mains can be rather pointless. look at electric when running a triple 5min amain the racing is fast and close,very close why? cause you only got 5mins to get it done wich in my eyes makes you a better driver and its intence. so why not just do 7min qualifiers and 12min. mains wether its a trippile or single main you get better racing and everbody can finish. not everbody wants to buy a 5-6 cell pack and the 10th scale guys would rather just use their 2 2cell packs rather than buying a 5-6 cell just to race. me personaly i would rather run a shorter main 12 min. mains are plenty of time to get to the front and win a race. my 2cents
I agree with a lot of what you say, But the 5 to 6s part. If you could run a setup that produces less heat, used less energy, less expensive in the long run and still get the job done, would you? if it was a real car, of course you would, but it seems as some here are either afraid or Just don't know as much as they think about how the Brushless setups work

Before the flame war starts, Please let me explain. I researched these setups for almost a year before jumping in, about as long as i did on Lipo's. If you get on RC Monster.com forum's, you can see most there get 40+ minutes on 6s+ setups. One guy in europe has a 9s A123 setup in a robotronic core truck (similar to the sc8) . All i'm saying is, that lower kv and higher voltage will win out. why fight it.

To your 1/10 statement, I have a rc10GT converted with a Lehner 1200basic XL/quark 80 amp esc and a 2500 25c 5s flightpower pack. Compared to my T4 with a MM4600 and 8000 maxamps pack, it runs cooler and just as fast while running longer. Both cars are geared to similar speeds (42-45 mph) the T4 gets consistent 25 minutes and the GT gets consistent 32 minutes, that's 3.2 times lower capacity and 2.5 times more voltage, going farther, more efficiently. If i could run a 5s pack in 1/10 legally, I'd do it immediately All I am asking People to do is, keep an open mind on this subject. It's still new territory and still being sorted out
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