181LikesLosi 1/4 Promoto-MX Motorcycle
07-16-2023, 02:13 PM
#136
It’s the first version guys.. the first rc10 a had like 3minute run time and over heated all the time, the first crawlers had no fine grained electronic motor control, the first helicopters had no gyros, the first drift cars had no gyros, this is in its infancy and will only get better over time
I'm sure someone at Traxxas has one and has already torn it down to see how it works, for all we know Traxxas or some other company is sitting on a bike and is planning its release. I'm sure people that work in the industry were well aware of this bike long before it was announced. How did GPM make parts to sell so fast, did they get access to molds, did Losi give them a bike, did other aftermarket manufacturers receive bikes, how was GPM able to write code and enter that code into their CNC machines for all the parts they have released for this bike so fast? This bike is also made in China, China doesn't really respect trademarks and copyrights, so I also won't be surprised if a knock off at a reduced price hits the market either. Isn't GPM a Chinese company, hmmm. Only time will tell if it gets better over time or not, it has to stick around for it to evolve.
Last edited by MULMZ2; 07-16-2023 at 02:51 PM.
07-16-2023, 03:39 PM
#137
Is it possible that it is the gyro that is holding the bike back handling wise? If the gyro acts up over berms because it's trying to keep it up right, then wouldn't it be doing the same thing around corners (this could explain why it pushes like a dump truck on throttle)? I don't have one in hand to play with, but does the gyro speed up, slow down, or keep the same speed when cornering? If the gyro speed remains the same then would it be possible to add some sort of mix to the steering, throttle, and gyro or figure out a way for them to know the settings of the other or would a next gen ESC/Gyro need to be made (Can you program the current one via USB or Bluetooth?)? If the gyro were able to rotate slower when there is steering input, would it make the bike handle better, would it be easier and faster getting out of the corner if the gyro sped up with more throttle input and less steering input?
07-16-2023, 05:51 PM
#138
Tech Master
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It’s going to get better with time, give it the time it’ll happen. This is the first mainstream product and off to a solid start in my opinion. Wait and see how this ages with time. Electronics is a big part and you’ll be surprised how a little software update could improve these things. I’m optimistic about this release, remember the is the mainstream starting point. It’ll only get better. You can skip this version if you’re not convinced, just sit it out on sidelines while everyone else is trying to have fun, not a problem.
07-16-2023, 10:19 PM
#139
It’s going to get better with time, give it the time it’ll happen. This is the first mainstream product and off to a solid start in my opinion. Wait and see how this ages with time. Electronics is a big part and you’ll be surprised how a little software update could improve these things. I’m optimistic about this release, remember the is the mainstream starting point. It’ll only get better. You can skip this version if you’re not convinced, just sit it out on sidelines while everyone else is trying to have fun, not a problem.
Look, I get that people are excited about this release and are trying to stay optomistic, I get that there are people out there that are big Losi fans, but at the same time keep it real and recognize what's actually happening with this release. I'd like to see it pan out as well, I'd like to see other manufacturers jump in, I'd like to see someone tackle a power system for this bike that would slow the gyro down when steering input is applied while allowing full throttle control to the rear wheel so that the driver can power through the corner on throttle and allow the gyro to speed up to right the bike when steering input is reduced, I also think it would be possible to do backflips with this bike if said power system had a gyro brake that could be activated with an aux switch. Jump, hold the gyro brake, hit the throttle, as the bike is coming around release the gyro brake.
Last edited by MULMZ2; 07-16-2023 at 11:29 PM.
07-16-2023, 10:29 PM
#140
They expected X preorders, and they got 5X. It's that simple.
Sure, it would have been better if they had expected 5X and made that many, but I'm sure they're MUCH happier to have 5x the expected interest, rather than 1/5x. Which is what happened with the RZR and Fireteam that nobody bought, and was on massive discount a few months later.
If you follow along with the people who were able to buy one, most are pretty happy with it. It's much better to drive one and then pontificate endlessly about it, than.... the other way around. But you do it your way.
Sure, it would have been better if they had expected 5X and made that many, but I'm sure they're MUCH happier to have 5x the expected interest, rather than 1/5x. Which is what happened with the RZR and Fireteam that nobody bought, and was on massive discount a few months later.
If you follow along with the people who were able to buy one, most are pretty happy with it. It's much better to drive one and then pontificate endlessly about it, than.... the other way around. But you do it your way.
07-16-2023, 10:36 PM
#141
They expected X preorders, and they got 5X. It's that simple.
Sure, it would have been better if they had expected 5X and made that many, but I'm sure they're MUCH happier to have 5x the expected interest, rather than 1/5x. Which is what happened with the RZR and Fireteam that nobody bought, and was on massive discount a few months later.
If you follow along with the people who were able to buy one, most are pretty happy with it. It's much better to drive one and then pontificate endlessly about it, than.... the other way around. But you do it your way.
Sure, it would have been better if they had expected 5X and made that many, but I'm sure they're MUCH happier to have 5x the expected interest, rather than 1/5x. Which is what happened with the RZR and Fireteam that nobody bought, and was on massive discount a few months later.
If you follow along with the people who were able to buy one, most are pretty happy with it. It's much better to drive one and then pontificate endlessly about it, than.... the other way around. But you do it your way.
At this point if Losi/Horizon was smart they would take a page out of another companies playbook who had and I believe still have a huge demand for one of their products, stop taking pre-orders until they catch up and start being honest and upfront with the people who have pre-ordered and with the Hobby Shops who sell their product, that right there will buy them a lot of good will.
Last edited by MULMZ2; 07-16-2023 at 10:57 PM.
07-17-2023, 08:29 AM
#142
You are reading way too much into what I wrote. Did you bother to read the last two sentences of that post? I have no idea why Losi/Horizon created TLR, I was speculating and provided two opposing reasons and if you take some time to read other posts in this thread you will see it wasn't me who attacked Losi/Horizon as a race brand, it was someone else. Back in the day there was no TLR that I remember, everything was released using the Team Losi name, whether or not it was intended to race, bash, or both. Some companies like the ones I pointed out like to create a second brand to set their higher end product apart from their other product, sorry, I should have stated higher end product instead of marketing spin, but at the end of the day, same thing. And you are entitled to your opinion of Losi and I'm entitled to mine.
I agree, the bike looks like a lot of fun in a big open area with some jumps to launch it off of. I don't disagree with you either when you state that this bike just set the standard for others to follow, but my points remain and I'm not alone. Read some comments on Losi's FB page, people aren't happy with the way this release was handled, Losi should have waited at the very least until they had part support on hand for the bike, people have already broken their bikes and Rick Vessel stated that he has been using his for at least six months and has had things break so Losi was well aware of it's shortcomings before release and from everything I've read the rear tires do not last that long, best of luck getting a replacement.
I agree, the bike looks like a lot of fun in a big open area with some jumps to launch it off of. I don't disagree with you either when you state that this bike just set the standard for others to follow, but my points remain and I'm not alone. Read some comments on Losi's FB page, people aren't happy with the way this release was handled, Losi should have waited at the very least until they had part support on hand for the bike, people have already broken their bikes and Rick Vessel stated that he has been using his for at least six months and has had things break so Losi was well aware of it's shortcomings before release and from everything I've read the rear tires do not last that long, best of luck getting a replacement.
Interesting. I wonder if this is why the bike has a stationery rider? If the gyro acts weird on berms it would probably freak out with an active rider. Can the gyro on this bike be disabled or is it built into the ESC/Receiver? If the gyro can't be disabled, has anyone tried aftermarket electronics to see how the bike drives without the gyro, anyone with a bike willing to give this a shot? If memory serves correct the Kyosho bike uses a weight in the wheels to simulate a gyro, so maybe an aftermarket company comes along with a wheel weight so the gyro can be ditched. Again this is where BTS video would be awesome. It would eliminate all the guessing and speculation.
First version of the Losi bike, but not the first RC bike and not the first RC dirt bike either, so I get your comparison, but it really doesn't apply here because RC bikes have been around for quite some time. I read somewhere, don't know if it's true or not, that this bike has been in development for 12 years. I personally don't see Losi coming out with a V2 of the bike they just released anytime soon, BUT I do see one or more of their competitors reverse engineering it and learning from potential mistakes/oversights, finding ways they can make it better, and releasing one.
I'm sure someone at Traxxas has one and has already torn it down to see how it works, for all we know Traxxas or some other company is sitting on a bike and is planning its release. I'm sure people that work in the industry were well aware of this bike long before it was announced. How did GPM make parts to sell so fast, did they get access to molds, did Losi give them a bike, did other aftermarket manufacturers receive bikes, how was GPM able to write code and enter that code into their CNC machines for all the parts they have released for this bike so fast? This bike is also made in China, China doesn't really respect trademarks and copyrights, so I also won't be surprised if a knock off at a reduced price hits the market either. Isn't GPM a Chinese company, hmmm. Only time will tell if it gets better over time or not, it has to stick around for it to evolve.
I'm sure someone at Traxxas has one and has already torn it down to see how it works, for all we know Traxxas or some other company is sitting on a bike and is planning its release. I'm sure people that work in the industry were well aware of this bike long before it was announced. How did GPM make parts to sell so fast, did they get access to molds, did Losi give them a bike, did other aftermarket manufacturers receive bikes, how was GPM able to write code and enter that code into their CNC machines for all the parts they have released for this bike so fast? This bike is also made in China, China doesn't really respect trademarks and copyrights, so I also won't be surprised if a knock off at a reduced price hits the market either. Isn't GPM a Chinese company, hmmm. Only time will tell if it gets better over time or not, it has to stick around for it to evolve.
Is it possible that it is the gyro that is holding the bike back handling wise? If the gyro acts up over berms because it's trying to keep it up right, then wouldn't it be doing the same thing around corners (this could explain why it pushes like a dump truck on throttle)? I don't have one in hand to play with, but does the gyro speed up, slow down, or keep the same speed when cornering? If the gyro speed remains the same then would it be possible to add some sort of mix to the steering, throttle, and gyro or figure out a way for them to know the settings of the other or would a next gen ESC/Gyro need to be made (Can you program the current one via USB or Bluetooth?)? If the gyro were able to rotate slower when there is steering input, would it make the bike handle better, would it be easier and faster getting out of the corner if the gyro sped up with more throttle input and less steering input?
There is no software update that will be able to do what I am suggesting, because the gyro motor appears to be hard wired to the battery cables, so the gyro is spinning at max speed 100% of the time. What I am suggesting will require a new esc to be made that is capable of sending a throttle signal to two different motors while also allowing one of those signals to reduce throttle when steering is applied. The ESC that comes with the Promoto doesn't appear to be capable of a software update, maybe I'm missing something. Since you seem to have more knowledge of the ESC can you explain how to apply a software update to it, is it programmable, is the Promto ESC the same as this ESC the only difference being the wires for the gyro motor? Sorry this is not the first mainstream bike, this was and this is not the first mainstream starting point either, google Kyosho Hang On Rider, Thunder Tiger Ducati, there is also another dirt bike out there that seems to be popular, Losi is just the most recent to take a stab at making an RC bike and since one hasn't been released in a while and since this one appeals to a very passionate group of people who immerse themselves in their passion, it exploded, which really shouldn't have been that big of a surprise.
Look, I get that people are excited about this release and are trying to stay optomistic, I get that there are people out there that are big Losi fans, but at the same time keep it real and recognize what's actually happening with this release. I'd like to see it pan out as well, I'd like to see other manufacturers jump in, I'd like to see someone tackle a power system for this bike that would slow the gyro down when steering input is applied while allowing full throttle control to the rear wheel so that the driver can power through the corner on throttle and allow the gyro to speed up to right the bike when steering input is reduced, I also think it would be possible to do backflips with this bike if said power system had a gyro brake that could be activated with an aux switch. Jump, hold the gyro brake, hit the throttle, as the bike is coming around release the gyro brake.
Look, I get that people are excited about this release and are trying to stay optomistic, I get that there are people out there that are big Losi fans, but at the same time keep it real and recognize what's actually happening with this release. I'd like to see it pan out as well, I'd like to see other manufacturers jump in, I'd like to see someone tackle a power system for this bike that would slow the gyro down when steering input is applied while allowing full throttle control to the rear wheel so that the driver can power through the corner on throttle and allow the gyro to speed up to right the bike when steering input is reduced, I also think it would be possible to do backflips with this bike if said power system had a gyro brake that could be activated with an aux switch. Jump, hold the gyro brake, hit the throttle, as the bike is coming around release the gyro brake.
I am following along and yes people are happy and like I've mentioned its still the honeymoon phase when everything is grand and that can change especially with no parts support. 5x the pre-orders they expected which are not paid for is not money in the bank and 5x the interest is not money in the bank, so if people cancel their pre-orders and the interest dies before these things are readily available sometime in November and December these bikes may end up being exactly like the ones you referenced. Like I said, keep it real. Horizon's a big company, it's about the bottom line for them at the end of the day. My guess is they were given delivery dates by their shipper and based the release of off that without taking into account the drama and labor issues that have been going on at Long Beach for the past 3 years and that bit them in the rear. No release date overseas was a bit of an oversight as well, that right there leads me to believe they knew demand would be strong.
At this point if Losi/Horizon was smart they would take a page out of another companies playbook who had and I believe still have a huge demand for one of their products, stop taking pre-orders until they catch up and start being honest and upfront with the people who have pre-ordered and with the Hobby Shops who sell their product, that right there will buy them a lot of good will.
At this point if Losi/Horizon was smart they would take a page out of another companies playbook who had and I believe still have a huge demand for one of their products, stop taking pre-orders until they catch up and start being honest and upfront with the people who have pre-ordered and with the Hobby Shops who sell their product, that right there will buy them a lot of good will.
Why so negative? All the doom and gloom in your posts. I understand the frustration with the ordering issues and inventory levels, believe me I do. I have orders that are 'stuck' at the moment as well. The hobby industry is not the only industry that has under ordered on new products to 'play it safe'. It's not the only industry to have issues with shipping either.
All the speculation about how the bike works and how you would change it, yet, you haven't driven one yet. I know that's not possible for you since they are on back order. But still, anyone wanting to modify how the the bike works or drives should at least drive it in factory spec first.
The comments about GPM, you caught us. It's a big conspiracy to get bikes out to accessory vendors first so they can make all the option parts. (wink)
I've been running the same test bike for 6 months with no major breakages. Quoted myself here since you brought it up. I broke a rear fender and mount, a rider head, and a foot peg. That's after hundreds of crashes, cartwheels, etc. I even drove the bike under a dumpster and succeeded in turning the front fender inside out. Didn't break, it looks ugly now, but I was able to pop it back out and it's still on the bike.
I respect your opinion and your frustration. All I am asking is to give the bike a chance before writing it off being negative.
Thanks.
07-17-2023, 09:27 AM
#143
I've been running the same test bike for 6 months with no major breakages. Quoted myself here since you brought it up. I broke a rear fender and mount, a rider head, and a foot peg. That's after hundreds of crashes, cartwheels, etc. I even drove the bike under a dumpster and succeeded in turning the front fender inside out. Didn't break, it looks ugly now, but I was able to pop it back out and it's still on the bike.
Last edited by Stuntbikemike; 07-17-2023 at 12:10 PM.
07-17-2023, 11:57 AM
#145
Tech Adept
Rick & Razor, thanks for logical replies. Every video I've seen of it, the people love it and it's obvious how much fun their having. Razor, I hope you get one and review it.
It may be the traxxas trolls have popped out of their TX prairie dog holes. .
If Losi was going to team up with an aftermarket company prior to the release, it definitely wouldn't be GPM.
It may be the traxxas trolls have popped out of their TX prairie dog holes. .
If Losi was going to team up with an aftermarket company prior to the release, it definitely wouldn't be GPM.
07-17-2023, 12:47 PM
#146
Tech Rookie
I've been beating the crap out of this thing for a bunch of packs now. All I have manages to brake so far is the chain guard mount. I have hit all kinds of stuff, flipped, rolled and all kinds of other goofy stuff. Evil is a tough SOB.
THIS THING IS TOUGH.
I think these are going to race good. The right tires and surface these will corner very good I think, even ride berms fine. The road tires are going to change a lot for these bikes ( hope I'm right ). Parking lot tracks will be easy to set up and run "promoto" style tracks on. Dirt or sand type drags could be fun with these.. Flat track type tracks would be fun, maybe "TT" tracks.
I see a lot of potential for these bikes.
THIS THING IS TOUGH.
THIS THING IS TOUGH.
I think these are going to race good. The right tires and surface these will corner very good I think, even ride berms fine. The road tires are going to change a lot for these bikes ( hope I'm right ). Parking lot tracks will be easy to set up and run "promoto" style tracks on. Dirt or sand type drags could be fun with these.. Flat track type tracks would be fun, maybe "TT" tracks.
I see a lot of potential for these bikes.
THIS THING IS TOUGH.
07-17-2023, 12:50 PM
#147
What an amazing time we're in where this sort of product is even possible.
07-17-2023, 01:29 PM
#150
Well, if the the few guys that insist on peppering this thread with baseless negativity would exit the chat, we'd be headed in the right direction. If current owners want to discuss legitimate issues with the bike, that makes all the sense in the world. If they have no intention of buying one, don't own one, or just have a general bone to pick with Losi/TLR, maybe reaching out directly to discuss their concerns and engineering ideas would be more fruitful and less obnoxious than for everyone here having to sift through walls of mostly irrelevant text. I wonder if you guys know how you sound? "I understand that nearly everyone that bought the bike is really enjoying them! But let me tell you why I think they/you shouldn't."
What an amazing time we're in where this sort of product is even possible.
What an amazing time we're in where this sort of product is even possible.
Discussion was generally good. It only got heated once there was debate whether Losi is still a racing brand or not. As for the bike, I think it will be a hit, for both bashers and racers a like who are looking for something new and fun. I just think its got some growing pains to over come of it is to become an established race class.
If it does, I hope it can remain fun spirited and not become what VTA and USGT turned into. Those guys were debating screws for christ sakes.
