Nerobro

iTrader: (2)

So.. I have two buggies. A Tamiya DT-02 and a TRF201. Both are fairly typical of chassis from the pre-carpet era. An era where surfaces were loose, traction was at a premium, and getting all that weight on the back of the buggy was your aim. Which lead to every serious buggy having a rear motor layout.

Here's my trouble, wheelies. The DT-02, and TRF201 will happily point that front end to the sky any time I do much of anything on carpet. This also means, I have zero steering as soon as I start to get on the throttle. This leads to a "park it, turn it, drive it" thing going around the indoor track. It's no fun at all.

It seems that, over time, a few things have happened to buggies. Chassis got longer, shocks got bigger, batteries and motors moved forward. Everything worked towards putting more weight on the front end of the buggy.

Well, I do have the XR chassis for my TRF201, and the XM is a mere $130 more (*twitches*) I don't think that's going to be enough.

I'm wondering where CG's are these days. Are we at at 50/50 split these days? If that's the case, I can break out the ballast and get the buggies there. How about damping? It used to be that you were looking for "roughly 1 cycle" when you dropped the car from 6" up. Where the car would drop, touch the ground, and just come to rest at ride height. And ride height was "roughly" driveshafts level. What's the general idea for base shock stetting? How about ride height? I see these setup cubes that have a wide range of heights, from 10 to 16mm, that seems... significant.

Well, I apreciate your thoughts. No, it's unlikely I'll buy anything else buggy wise, but I'd like to make what I have, work as best as I can.

John Myall

Nerobro

iTrader: (2)

DT-02 doesn't have a slipper. Yes, I can adjust the slipper on the TRF-201. I'm running 17.5 in it, so lost power is generally a bad thing. :-) I'd generally setup my slipper so I didn't have excessive tire-spin on a loose surface. I have, no tire spin...

I'll give it a swing. It can only melt a spur, right?

I still think basalt and suspension can take care of most of it.

trf211

Have you installed the brass front bulkhead? From what I remember the 201 and 211 had the ability to mount the old full sized lipo and with the 201 we would mount a shorty lipo as far forward in the battery tray and the esc behind it under the strap. These two things should help shift the weight bias forward and help a lot but will still be just a bandaid to a bigger issue. The trf buggys are good on dirt but are at a disadvantage on carpet since the tuning window is not really there for such high grip and low ride heights.
http://site.petitrc.com/setup/tamiya...s/DSC_3191.jpg

Nerobro

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I know it's band-aid work. But I'm not really up to spending money on a dedicated carpet car. :-) That said, I do have access to a maker space, and can... yaknow... make things. :-)

So.. the advice is "get that CG as far forward as you can". I can work with that. steel, brass, etc... And I have a variety of batteries, super shorty through full size. So I can do something silly there too.

I have a super shorty in my DT-02, as I.. never really planned on doing anything "real" with it, so I built it as light as I could. It's a solid half pound lighter than my buddy's build of the same buggy.

trf211

As you stated at ride height dogbones should be level across. As you lower the buggy to carpet ride heights you end up with the bones pointed downward, the only way to level them back out would be to raise the diff inside the bulkhead. If you can create parts to raise the diff without affecting suspension geometry then by all means try it. If you don't raise the diff, at some point you will hit the dogbone on the outdrive when the suspension is cycling and induce different driving characteristics due to the change in dogbone plunge.

The other issue to address will be your droop and uptravel. At 23mm you have a balanced amount of droop and uptravel. When you drop it to carpet heights you will end up with excessive amount of droop and very little uptravel. Basically a shit load of weight transfer in every direction because of the droop. Try shorter shock eyelets if you have them, or find another shock position that will trade off droop for more uptravel, then adjust the shock package for the new position to make it feel right again.

Krio

iTrader: (159)

Most 2wd buggies are around 45% front and 55% rear bias for carpet. For clay, its between 40/60 and 35/65. Low traction or loam might hit 30/70.

trf211

Here's the most active place to look for setup advice.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1621288184785986/

Not sure how many guys are using the 201xr on carpet, most will be on the 201xm/201xmw or 211 however you will appreciate their insight I'm sure. Some guys are printing their own 3-gear laydown gearboxes which is pretty cool.

They are good buggies, and I understand why people still drive them. Jimmy would always whoop on us with his 503 when he showed up. Such a nice buggy it's a shame they backed out of offroad.

Chris916

Nerobro,

I recently started to go on carpet track with my son and 2 DT-02, and we have a lot of fun, despite obvious limitations of DT-02 design for carpet.


Just sharing our few settings and options.

Tires : Tamiya front 19805552 rear 53084

surprisingly capable on carpet

Motor : Tamiya torque tuned & super stock BZ

+ full ball bearings + 17t gear - stock diff

Shocks : DT-03 CVA 54567

Oil 600 or 800 cst - no spacer - springs from 54567

Riding height as low as possible, flat.

Battery : small lipo 2200 pushed front with foam or big brick 5000. Chassis need a cut for the brick.

Body : lexan Sand Viper, wing vertical flap cut.


Like this, cars are well balanced, fun and easy to drive. No oversteer, no wheeling and limited understeer.

Limitation is jumping, the track has massive jumps designed for modern race cars, where our lack of instant power leads to bad location landing.


Already tried a brushless 10.5T, it was manageable, but out of my skill. I prefer the BZ for the moment.

Carpet cruiser, not carpet racer...

Nerobro

iTrader: (2)

I've got a 17.5 in both my DT-02 and TRF201. Looks like my oil choices are VERY light. i'm around 35 weight in both cars. I'm running some nice aluminum shocks on the DT-02, as well as the carbon shock towers and front shock tower brace. .. and swaybars. heh.

Vertebreaker

iTrader: (6)

I was wondering if anybody knew if there was a certain offset for the DT-02 or DT-03 for stadium truck wheels? I have a DT-03T coming so I don't have it in hand yet to look at it but I want to put ST wheels on it all around. I figure I'll have to mod the front but didn't know if any regular off the shelf brand of wheels will fit to use carpet tires.

Lukyduckie

Back in the day there was a mid motor conversion for the 201. Maybe post in the wanted forum and see if someone has something in a box in their basement. I loved the Trf offroad buggies.

DirkW

iTrader: (1)

Before you do that, make sure you read up on the scammer warnings, though.

BuggyFan21

Use the XR chassis if you have it, you can then get a lot more choice on battery position and the longer wheel base calms the car somewhat.

Rear motor can still be quick, but you need more of a point and squirt driving style when compared to the mid motor buggies.

Even with a 17.5 you want the clutch to be working - you'll be quicker over a whole lap if you can keep the front wheels on the ground.

Tamiya did make a steel front bulkhead for the car if you can find it, or get some brass plates up front, Lee Martin had one under the servo on his car when he still raced for Tamiya.

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