OffRoadJunkie

iTrader: (9)

That is why I drive the Kyosho. There are a couple Xrays, Yokomos, and Losis. Not Schumachers. I really do love seeing the variety.

AE and Xray are dominating because they hired the best drivers and a lot of them. Plain and simple! Like I keep telling people, the car doesn't win races. The drivers do. If Associated was the best car, then why do other brands win so many races? If Xray was the best, then again, why do other brands win so many races. Those two brands win the most, simply because those drivers are winning them. You don't see weekend warrior betting a factory driver even on their own track. I was watching CJ Jelin race his Kyosho at a track that consisted of about 80% AE. Jelin smoked them pretty bad, even after given the others a 3/4 track headstart. Why did this happen? Because Jelin is a pro driver and the others are weekend warriors. If AE was so much better, then why didn't they stand a chance? Because it's not the car... It's the driver!

Kyosho and Losi make exceptional vehicles. There are a lot of side-by-side videos where the these two companies are chosen to be the best. The reason they are not winning a ton of World races is due to them not dishing out the money for the top drivers. However, they are doing just as good as the others on the local tracks. So, Ae and Xray are pretty much dominating the electric racing world. Take a look at the difference in price between an AE and an Xray and compare them to a Losi and Kyosho. There is quite a bit of a difference. Well, at least up until this COVID buying fest. A month ago, you were able to get a Losi 22 5.0 for less than $300. The Spec was $229. The Kyosho RB7 and RB7ss is $219. Like buying a pair of Levis over a pair of Wranglers. The Levis are more expensive because of all the money they spend on endorsements and advertisement. Losi jacked their price back up to take advantage of the buying frenzy, but you can still get the 22 5.0 Spec for less than $300.

You know, I'm thinking of picking up an RB7 and converting it to a Stadium truck. I don't like the new stadium trucks because they are too wide all the tracks around here. Besides, that's what a stadium truck used to be. It was a buggy with truck wheels on it. I checked out the ROAR rules, and it is perfectly legal. All I would really need is wheels and tires, body mounts, bigger spur gear, front shock tower and shocks.

Nice job on the 4th in the A-main. How did you beat the other non-Kyosho cars? I thought they were better cars, so you should have lost. There must have been only 4 cars in the race. LOL..... Congrats on that. I have won a couple A-mains. I usually come in 3rd or 4th. I just don't have the time and track access as they do. The nearest track is 40 miles away. The only time I get to practice is 60 minutes before the race starts, and 30 minutes of that is setting up and tuning. I only race 1 or 2 times a month.

waitwhat

iTrader: (4)

A car with more adjustability can be better adapted to different conditions.

The cva let's the driveshaft pivot sit closer to the outer hinge pin. The variable height axle and diff let you keep the a-arm and upper link further up in their travel while allowing for lower ride height. This keeps the camber gain in the sweet spot. Without adjustable axle height on the kyosho you have to adjust the spring collars to get the lower ride height, which puts the arm and upper link at a more compressed position. This also means you have to make a droop adjustment too.

The ability to move just the diff and axle height means you can tune with dogbone plunge, something that has a large impact on how a car makes rear grip.

Kyosho was not the first company to do driveshaft blades. The MIP pucks system used plastic pin bushings (and brass roller bushings). Additionally, the TLR car comes with composite outdrives, which means the outdrive/pin interface is metal on plastic, just like the RB7ss. Those driveshaft blades on the Kyosho are a double edge sword. They are a wear part that must be replaced frequently. Run the car once with messed up driveshaft blades and kiss the outdrives goodbye. On the TLR car if the composite outdrive wears out they don't ruin other parts.

The gull wing arm is not a feature exclusive to the kyosho and it has nothing to do with ride height. A gullwing arm changes the rising rate of the shock and it lowers cg because typically when you switch from flat to gull wing you have shorter shock towers too.

The rear suspension on the RB7 looks just like a B4 from 2004.

20 years of experience studying rc car designs? You took a massive break in the hobby, and a lot happened in that time. I have almost 30 years of racing experience where the longest breaks I took from racing was when I was deployed overseas for 4 months. The RB7 lacks several adjustments that are standard on current generation cars from other companies. The RB7 has no way to adjust front axle trail and Ackerman on the spindles.

OffRoadJunkie

iTrader: (9)

You are focusing too much on the small adjustments rather than looking at the big picture. I never said Kyosho was the first to come out with those features. As for the CVA pivot, none of the cars pivot, during a race, enough to make the angle that much of a difference to even come close to making it a consideration. Do you have any idea on how much you will have to pivot any of these shafts to make the resistance an issue? Quite a bit. Also for a racer to allow their drive blades to get so worn out that they will break, is probably the same guy who races each race with bald tires. We all know that parts wear out and they need to be inspected on a regular basis. For a part that only costs $3, I don't think it will be a problem changing them out. As for the outdrives not having enough travel? never saw that as an issue. If it was, Kyosho sells longer outdrives and longer CVAs, what ever you prefer to extend. Kyosho's shorter outdrives have the perfect amount of travel. If you get too much travel, they will bind up.

Adjustability? Every car will have a feature that another will not. For example, Kyosho has 4 gear box configurations. laydown, layback, rear mount, and 4 or 3 internal gears. Not to mention, Kyosho has a better all diff than AE. That has been proven time and time again. They are smother and last longer. This has been documented by the pros since the 90's. The RB7 also comes with the ability to mount your battery parallel on the chassis. This offers a better center of gravity. Kyosho offers the RB7ss so you can add the weight where you want, AE no longer offers the Lite kit. All of these features offer a tremendous amount of adjustability. A heck of a lot more than a CVA verses a CVD. But, if you want to continue to dwell on that feature, I'll give it to you.If there are any options that doesn't come on a car, you can always upgrade them. That is why this hobby is so exciting. However, one thing that is nice about the kyosho, is the price. A B6.2 buggy will cost $340. An RB7 and RB7ss will cost you $220. For a $120, you get any hop-up you want.

Again, my point is, Kyosho, AE, Losi, Yokomo, X-ray, Serpent, Schumacher, etc... all make a great car. I have nothing bad to say about the overall performance of any of them. I would have no issue on racing either of them. I only chose Kyosho because of the price, to broaden the brands out on the track, and because I had to buy a couple more for my kids. When looking at cars, the first car I looked at was the B6.2. I then started drooling all over the X-ray. However, once my kids stated bugging me about letting them race, I had to look at something cheaper. So I saved $360 and bought the RB7ss for all of us. However, it was a toss up between the RB7ss and the 22 5.0 Spec. My kids wanted the RB7ss, so I went with that.

As for my break in racing, I started racing over 30 years ago, while in my teens. I got my first car, a Mauri Big Bear, when I was 11. I love that truck. I attended the first IFMAR worlds race in Del Mar, CA. I didn't race, but that got me hooked. I got out of racing for 20 years ago, but I never quit following it. I have all the Car Action Magazines and Tower Hobbies catalogs to prove it... Well, not so much any more, my wife made me ditch them when I moved. You say you have been racing for 30 years. How many Kyoshos have you had? How many Losi's have you had? How many difference kinds of cars, of the same style, have you had? I started out with an RC10. Then I went with an Ultima. Then I went back to an RC10 Graphite. then a Losi JRX. Then a Kyosho Triumph. I had AE RC10T. Then a Losi JRXT. Then a JRXXT and finished with a Kyosho Lazer ZX-RR, a Kyosho Triumph, and a Kyosho ProXRT. I went that route because Kyosho had a vehicle for each class. later I purchased a Losi XXXT and a Duratrax Evader ST, for the wife. Also, in the 90's, I purchase a Schumacher Cat, but I never raced it. Getting parts really sucked at the time.

So, I will say this again:
The car does not win the races. The driver wins the races. Think about it. If it was the car that one the races, then there would never be one of those car trailing another brand in a race. If AE was the best car out there, then AE cars would be at the front of every race, consistently. If Kyosho was so much worse, because their CVD wont pivot at a 90 degree angle, then why do they win races, or at the very least, lead AE buggies? Kyoshos would be dead last in every race.

Now, with your 30 years of racing, have you noticed the different types of upgrade they make and why they make them? Look at the IFMAR Worlds races and all of the big races. All the cars are designed and upgraded to perform on those tracks. The funny thing is, most of us will never race on those tracks, or anything like them, but we suck up these new car fads like celebrities' over what's currently in fashion. When the trueth is, fashion seem so revolve more than it evolves. What's the biggest change they have made, to RC Race cars in the past 20 years? The biggest change they have made is the mid-motor design, which came out in the early 90's as a prototype. I can't remember the company, but it was never produced. Why? I have not idea. Look at the materials being used, especially for the chassis. Aluminum, then graphite, then reinforced plastic, then graphite, then plastic again, now it's going back to aluminum. However, graphite is starting to make a come back.

Now, I will finish this by saying, "Thank you for your service." Please don't take this as an attack on you. I really enjoy these types of conversations. I like to base my opinions on the overall view and not just a drawing. I am in Engineering, so I do have bit of an understanding on how things work and how they are affected. I am not saying you don't, because obviously you do or you wouldn't be racing these. I am only saying these cars intrigues me with all the intricate details that they try to put in them. It is so funny how so many people, in this hobby, take these "Toys," because that's what they are at the end of the day, so seriously. This is not a Ford v. Chevy, or America v. Russia, These are toys v. toys. I've watched grown men argue about this there car being the best and it was like watching two kids in a sandbox arguing over whos Hot Wheel is the best. Kinda like how some of these readers are looking at our posts right now.

RCTVLIVE

iTrader: (11)

Thank you, I did not realized they matched.

waitwhat

iTrader: (4)

My first buggy was a Kyosho Ultima 2. I've had almost every losi car since the LXT. I still have a XXX-T MF1.5 that I run on my back yard track and race when I feel like defending the old guard of rear motor. My XXX-T has 22T shocks on it and a bunch of good Trinity parts from BitD. I've had Kyosho Maxxum FF's back when I got on a vintage kick and my first nitro 1/8th scale was a Kyosho MP7.5 Kanai 3. I went through a Tamiya kick when the TRF201 came out. I've run for MRC/Academy and a company called Max Racing. I've had very few Associated cars throughout the years that I raced, although I had a number of RC-10 vintage cars of all variety (including a Tekin Mid-Motor conversion with active rear camber link positioning). I also ran a B4 converted to mid motor with the first XFactory 2wd conversion. I ran Xray touring cars and AE 1/12th scales back in the 2000's. I still have an OG Losi XX-4 that I've held onto for years. I built it up back in the day with all the best parts and ran it with brushless back when brushless started to become a thing in the car side of the rc hobby. I have a 2003 Mark Pavids Durango (TC3 drivetrain, Schumacher Cat 3000 suspension, and a custom chassis to tie it all together). The car went to the worlds, it's got worlds inspection stickers on the rim's. I've really liked the Hot Bodies 4wd buggies so I've got an old D4 WE that I ran in the mid 2000's and my current 4wd is also HB. Lately my brand of choice has been Exotek. My 4wd SCT, 4wd Buggy, F1, and Sprint car all have Exotek conversions to make them what I want. There are many more that I've had through the years.

The CVA pivot being closer to the outside hinge pin (like on the TLR/AE cars) lets the drive shafts run closer to straight throughout the suspension travel in comparison to the CVD. This gives the CVA an advantage because they have inherently less bind. The TLR Elite has 64 adjustment combinations between the diff height, axle height, and CVA pivot location. How the drivetrain responds as the suspension articulates is something that has a profound influence on how the car handles.

Other cars have 4 gear transmissions, and even some where you can use 4 or 3 gears in the same gearbox. Personally, I like a 3 gear laydown gearbox for any condition. My 22 5.0 has the same weight distribution as a rear motor car, but none of the pendulum effect of the weight behind the rear axle. My mid motor buggy pulls wheelies on holeshot tires. Driving my XXX-T rear motor stadium truck on my loose dirt offroad track in my back yard back to back with my 22 5.0 I can assure you the 22 5.0 is more composed and quicker.

OffRoadJunkie

iTrader: (9)

So you were bit by the hobby pretty bad, huh? I was a big collector at one point. Those cars were my race vehicles. I also had the USA1, Kyosho Scorpion, 2 RC10L, a Yokomo 4wd on-roard, Frog, ProXRT GP, and a couple Red Cat Nitro on-road cars. Half of my stuff got stolen a few years ago. I know who it was, but I can't prove it. As you can tell, I'm still a little bitter about it. The other I ended up selling to get my kids setup in RC racing and to make room for my other hobbies. My family and I are also big into riding dirt bikes and quads and water sports. I crashed a few months ago and that is when I realized I'm getting to old to ride dirt bikes like I do. That's why I'm getting back into racing RC racing again. To get a rush that doesn't hurt so much when I crash. It will only hurt my wallet.

I loved my XXX-T. My daughter, however, broke it last month. I never really raced it because it didn't handle as well as my ProXRT when driving it on bigger tracks. The XXX-T is a much wider, so it felt like a beast on smaller tracks. I was spoiled with the narrower trucks when those were the thing. I was thinking about getting a buggy and converting to a stadium truck, like the old days, by changing out the front shock tower, shocks, wheels and tires, and body mounts. I looked it up and it is still Roar legal to race those. My daughter wanted to race the XXXT, but there is no way it could hold up without rebuilding the entire thing. I would definitely have to change out the slider shafts. Another problem with having a stadium truck, or any truck, those classes are dying out over here. They only race once or twice a week and it's either stadium or short course. It's never consistent. It's all about 2wd and 4wd buggy. Did you see Schumacher's new stadium truck? Very nice!

I'm also thinking of getting a Losi 22-X4. Losi seems to be losing popularity like Kyosho. I wonder is they are going to start dishing out the money for better drivers like AE and X-Ray.

waitwhat

iTrader: (4)

My dad was always my mechanic when I was younger. He liked to drive rc cars too, but he let me have all the glory of racing. Long story short my XXX-T MF1.5 is one I had setup for him after I moved near him after the military so I could invite him to come race it and let me wrench on it (mostly) for him. He could "Arrive and Drive" in the Novice class and I ran the truck in 13.5 ST. I moved away from him a while ago and the truck ended up without shocks, sitting in a box for a few years until I recently decided to clean it up and get it in running condition. Hopefully this winter I can visit him and bring the truck so he can drive it. Running it is purely sentimental. Racing it is frustrating because the mid motor trucks are just that much faster. I raced it on a super high grip clay track and keeping the front wheels on the ground was an exercise in futility. I did win the 2wd truck class that day (against mid-motor stadium trucks and short course trucks). I had enough speed to stay out front. Others were faster and could catch me, but they couldn't set up a pass before they got nervous and made a mistake because I was making my truck as wide as possible. There are facebook groups for TLR and AE drivers. I don't do fb, but I do look at the 22 Empire fb group from time to time and it is quite active. TLR does long q&a videos with drivers and engineers. Good insight into what the team is trying in order to go faster. I knew one of my local TLR drivers was running the test version of the 5.0 Elite hubs before the Elite was announced, but that is because I was snooping around his pit. He told me what parts to get to replicate what he had, but I just waited for the Elite parts to drop. TLR, AE, Xray, Tekno and a few others have team drivers in my area, but with C19 who knows what will happen to team drivers.

OffRoadJunkie

iTrader: (9)

That's really nice that it was a father and son thing. Not so sound whiney, but wish my dad would have been interested in my RC racing. To him it was just toys, which is what they are, but much more. At that time, I made it a rule that I will support every hobby my kids want to get into. It's not cheap to do, but I do the best I can to support them. My kids are starting to get as good as me. They definitely have quicker reflexes, which is really handy to have on smaller tracks. Mostly, I think they are getting better because I have them practice with 13.5T motors and they race with 17.5T motors. I'm too lazy to swap out my motors to race and practice. LOL...

I used to race at a track where a Kyosho sponsored driver races all the time. He's the one that got me into all three race classes. I can't remember his name, but I used to check out all the prototypes he would test. I really want to get into 4WD buggy, but they cost too much. My kids other hobby it riding dirt bikes and my done races in motocross. That gets pricey. have you had a chance to drive the Losi, Kyosho, and AE 4wd buggy side by side? I hear most people that do end up leaning towards the Losi 1st, then the Kyosho. Again, I may choose one of these due to the cost factor.



There are a ton of FB pages that are quite helpful, but I too am not a FB'er. I have an account, but it is a joint account with my wife and I don't remember the password to get into it.

ebcdic

Hey guys. Any thoughts on picking one of these up as a basher? For the price they are selling at now seems like a good deal for the components included.

OffRoadJunkie

iTrader: (9)

My kids use theirs as bashers and racers. Mostly basher because we live so far from a track. They haven't broke anything except cracking the shell and scratching the crap out of them. They like to set up jumps and blast them down the street to see how far they can go and to learn how to control it in the air. You can get one and put stadium truck tires on it so it will go in rougher terrain. Just make sure you get a bigger spur gear. You can fit the Associated wheels on it.

rotodude69

think when i bought this it was still 369. bought it from towerhobbies. I feel like i got ripped off at that price. but at 219 its probably the best deal right now. but man compared to my b6.1d the B6 kind of blows it out of the water compared to what you get with the b6. the kyosho is like ok why the hell is this plastic and this and that. just cheap. very cheap car

OffRoadJunkie

iTrader: (9)

What's funny is I just go don defending the B6.1 to a guy who is an X-ray fan. He claims the B6 is also an overly price cheaply built car. I am not a holding any brand over another brand. All the current race models are excellent. I would get into details on how your comments on the RB7 as having cheap plastics are false, but that would be repeating what has already been said. While assembling your RB7, how hard did you struggle while trying to start a bolt in one of the holes? That is one of the biggest complaints about the Kyosho race buggies. The complaints. If you had an RB7, you know that your accusations are pretty silly. I invite you go to back and compare what is plastic and what isn't. Then think to yourself, "Does it make a difference or am I just adding weight where it isn't needed. How much time and money do racers spend trying to lighten their buggies and redistribute it someone where else. Kyosho has plastic parts pretty much where a lot of other highly popular cars have it and Kyosho's plastics are proven to be stronger. . So, to talk down any of these cars, including Kyosho's RB7, is like buying a pair of Nike's because they make you run faster than a pair of Reeboks.

It's true that I only bought a few Kyoshos because of their price. If I was willing to pay more, I would get a Losi due to parts being more readily accessible. If I was willing to take out a loan, I would get an X-ray because they have a sexy looking car. However, I don't believe they will make me faster. Also, that new Schumacher ST looks pretty darn tempting.

My 12 year old son uses his RB7ss as a basher 99% of the time and he loves to practice his jumping. He loves to see how far he can launch it. He has crashed it and rolled it so many times that the body is cracked and paint is chipping off it. He hasn't broken a single part. Besides the body, NOT A SINGLE FRICKING PART has been broken!!! Not even a shock tower. So, these cheap Kyosho plastic parts are best darn plastic parts I have ever seen.

lexusbest

Kyosho has always been the most expensive kit. Probably because of their quality. Shocks are known to be best out there, springs are too. Ball diff is known for being the only one holding up well against high grip surfaces.

the fact i didn't buy an rb7 is because it was outdated before release, and needed tons of expensive hop ups to work best. As example, I consider easy access diff a must. That's why i went for the yz2 cal3. Yokomo kits are probably best quality kits compared to any other associated, xray, losi, schumacher... At the same price level or a little higher, japanese quality is always better
I have never built a kyosho but i'm looking for the mp10e

pink_sleeve

iTrader: (221)

Yokomo kits are made in China.

lexusbest

Where did you get that info from?

Anyway, the company itself is japanese and that's a synonym of better quality. Every bag comes signed, material quality is top notch and assembly is excelent. Any brand can manufacture in china with higher standars