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Old 03-14-2007, 09:47 AM
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So, you are in agreement with Saddam Hussdein and Al Qaida?
Disaggreeing with you, doesn't mean we aggree with terroists. Don't oversimplify the issue.

Hussein chose to play a game of "Chicken" with the UN (hiding things or pretending to hide things from inspectors), and he ended up losing - thank to the U.S.
Again, why isn't the Bush administration showing the world they were right?

I guess my point was everyone loves pointing at Bush, the oil companies, ...

What about the U.N., France, Russia? If you're a Bush-hater, I know it's fun to blame him for everything, but it's not quite that simple.
Of course, they have yet to PROVE to the world the invasion was justified...

So, let's pretend the U.S. didn't invade Iraq. What would be different?
Not much really, other than thousands of U.S. troops would still be alive...we have yet to see any proof they were really a threat.

Iran, Libya, and other countries following Iraq's lead and developing WMDs.
I believe these lunatics would have taken the same course either way.

Al Qaida on the offensive instead of the defensive. I'd guess either the Sears Tower in Chicago, some other skyscraper, or maybe a SuperBowl in the last 5 years is destroyed.
Again, right after 911, we started taking measures to minimize that possiblilty...but no shield is invincable. I understand your desire to be proactive; the entire country was foaming at the mouth for some payback. I feel that the current administration politicised the whole event to their own advantage. I saw an interview with somebody in the oval office that claimed Bush flatly declared "Find a link to Iraq"...

It's a whole new world... With the fall of the Soviets, it was inevitable such situations would arise in the power vacume that was created.
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Old 03-14-2007, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
Sure, that's it exactly...I agree with Hussein and Al-Quida?!?!? Are you serious? Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I've buddied up with Muslim extremists.
Hussein and Al Qaida said/say Iraq didn't have WMDs, the U.S. is just in this for the oil, and they should leave. That sounded like the same thing you were saying. Of course I'm not accusing you of buddying up with the enemy, just making a point.

The more people and media outlets that openly oppose this effort, the more the extremists are loving it.

If we had people marching in Washington with "Nuke Iraq" signs, and the U.S. fighting this war to win it, rather than not get in trouble at home, the war would be over by now.


Thanks for the intelligent debate. It's admittedly an ugly situation. The Bush administration is not perfect, but they are not the only ones who have done stupid things in the last 4 years.

Take care. (If I knew how, I'd insert a little American flag waving smiley here).
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by R40Victim
I believe these lunatics would have taken the same course either way.
Wrong.

On December 19, 2003, Libya publicly announced its intention to rid itself of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR)-class missile programs. Since that time, it has cooperated with the U.S., the U.K., the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons toward these objectives. Libya has also signed the IAEA Additional Protocol and has become a State Party to the Chemical Weapons Convention.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawk6
Wrong.

On December 19, 2003, Libya publicly announced its intention to rid itself of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR)-class missile programs. Since that time, it has cooperated with the U.S., the U.K., the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons toward these objectives. Libya has also signed the IAEA Additional Protocol and has become a State Party to the Chemical Weapons Convention.
When I read that I nearly lost my mind. I think I read somewhere that Gaddafi had said he wanted his country to grow and become economically viable and that becoming a part of the international community was the best way to do it rather then fight against it. After all of his war-mongering in the past...it was refreshing to see someone from the middle-east finally understand that it has to be a World view rather then a regional view.
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Old 03-14-2007, 12:23 PM
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If we had people marching in Washington with "Nuke Iraq" signs, and the U.S. fighting this war to win it, rather than not get in trouble at home, the war would be over by now.
I chuckle every time I hear this EXCUSE. WTF difference does it really make what the people of the US think of the war? So you're telling me that the soldiers on the ground alter their tactics based on popular demand? Since when is the military a Democracy? They don't take votes, they take orders. They were ordered to keep the peace in Iraq long enough for a stable gonvernment to form; still hasn't happend. I wanna jump through the screen and scream at Hannity every time he says this. Sorry buddy, the American people aren't in command of the troops, the Commander in Chief is.

Wrong.
I should have specified Iran, sorry! Please don't take offense, I LOVE to debate this!
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Old 03-14-2007, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by R40Victim
I chuckle every time I hear this EXCUSE. WTF difference does it really make what the people of the US think of the war? So you're telling me that the soldiers on the ground alter their tactics based on popular demand? Since when is the military a Democracy? They don't take votes, they take orders. They were ordered to keep the peace in Iraq long enough for a stable gonvernment to form; still hasn't happend. I wanna jump through the screen and scream at Hannity every time he says this. Sorry buddy, the American people aren't in command of the troops, the Commander in Chief is.

I think the point Hawk made was support for the war. If you are in a war and you are getting beat ... then you hear that your opponent's supporters are going to undermind the Commander in Chief and pull out of the war (i.e. debate about a troop withdrawl by next March), doesn't that increase your resolve to fight until next March? Maybe right now you are on the brink of giving in, but now you think you can make it until they leave.
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:07 PM
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If I'm an insurgent leader and I know the U.S. (or at least their nightly news broadcasts) are showing indecision and weakness, my goal is to make this war as ugly as possible - blow up civilians and troops every few days. Let the ones in the U.S. with a weak stomach for war eventually pull the troops out. Then I stand up and scream "I defeated the great satan!!!"

If I'm an insurgent leader and I know the whole country is behind Bush and his desire to create a democratic Iraq, and they're ready to nuke us to get there, maybe I crawl back into my cave and find a different fight.


The enemy listens to our media. Why do you think Bin Laden or his deputies have stated in their public messages that Iraq is George Bush's Vietnam??? That message wasn't intended to fire up Al Qaida grunts, it was intended to fire up the media and others here in this country.
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawk6
If I'm an insurgent leader and I know the U.S. (or at least their nightly news broadcasts) are showing indecision and weakness, my goal is to make this war as ugly as possible - blow up civilians and troops every few days. Let the ones in the U.S. with a weak stomach for war eventually pull the troops out. Then I stand up and scream "I defeated the great satan!!!"

If I'm an insurgent leader and I know the whole country is behind Bush and his desire to create a democratic Iraq, and they're ready to nuke us to get there, maybe I crawl back into my cave and find a different fight.


The enemy listens to our media. Why do you think Bin Laden or his deputies have stated in their public messages that Iraq is George Bush's Vietnam??? That message wasn't intended to fire up Al Qaida grunts, it was intended to fire up the media and others here in this country.
Believe me...I do support our troops...I just don't like to see their hands tied. The only way to win this is to wipe out the insurgency..and the only way to do that is to start at one end of the country and kill anything that moves in one large wave until you reach the other border. Will that happen...no. To many people are hiding and/or supporting them. If we're going to do this right, then we have to be ready to kill....all of them. We probably wouldn't have to but we need to be ready to.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:06 PM
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Maybe we should set up a paremeter, and drop leaflets saying that if you don't leave, you die, everything inside the perameter will be destroyed(I believe this technique was used in Vietnam). If the guys we're looking for come out, bang, got'em. Let the refugees run, then level the area, and move on to the next. Unfortunatly for us, we're big hearted & honorable people...and that technique would prolly enthuse the locals to side with the extremists. It's no less than a rock and a hard place, and the current tactics aren't working fast enough. I have to aggree with Boortz that too many Americans get their news from "Entertainment Tonight", and expect every issue to be resolved as quickly as an episode of their favorite show.

I'd like to see a democratic Iraq, but with the locals as they are, it's not likely... F'em... Nuke'em... Just don't waste any more time/money or American Troops on it.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by R40Victim
Maybe we should set up a paremeter, and drop leaflets saying that if you don't leave, you die, everything inside the perameter will be destroyed(I believe this technique was used in Vietnam). If the guys we're looking for come out, bang, got'em. Let the refugees run, then level the area, and move on to the next. Unfortunatly for us, we're big hearted & honorable people...and that technique would prolly enthuse the locals to side with the extremists. It's no less than a rock and a hard place, and the current tactics aren't working fast enough. I have to aggree with Boortz that too many Americans get their news from "Entertainment Tonight", and expect every issue to be resolved as quickly as an episode of their favorite show.

I'd like to see a democratic Iraq, but with the locals as they are, it's not likely... F'em... Nuke'em... Just don't waste any more time/money or American Troops on it.
Hate to say because it makes me feel like a hearless person...but....
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:21 PM
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I'm looking for solutions, not a larger investment, be it troops, time or money...
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Old 03-15-2007, 07:44 AM
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Default Heres some thing unbelieveable but seen.

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Old 03-15-2007, 08:33 AM
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"Sorry, the page you requested was not found."
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:55 PM
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Old 03-16-2007, 03:59 AM
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Funny you call all the ppl terroist seems to me that in the Vietnam conflict they were doing much the same and they weren't called terrorists, your on another countries soil uninvited and your not the invaders, you go over there with mutli million dollar weaponery against a ppl with very little and cause there not playing the way the US would like it there terrorist. The US bring alot of this crap on themselves by playing world police which there not. Everybody in there right mind know it had nothing to do with 911 or WMD but is all over the OIL, Same with Afganistan the Russians were there for 10yrs and walked away, what makes the US the supreme force to make things right where others have failed, seem it's to use up all the arms stockpile you guy's have horded over the years that have been collecting dust, The sooner Bush and his loyal band of followers are out of power the better,
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