The Crisis in Our Sport
05-18-2014, 08:12 PM
#32
How long it takes to charge a pack depends on how much of it you use. In 2WD Stock Offroad, you use about 800 to 1200 mAh in a 5 minute race depending on grip level. It takes about 20 minutes to top that back up.
I'm not familiar with how much is used in 21.5 TC at present, perhaps someone in the know could fill us in?
The core classes are the IFMAR classes, and their feeder spec motor formats. The IFMAR classes offroad are 2WD and 4WD buggy; onroad they are TC and 12th scale. Having a plan to properly support those classes first and foremost is desirable. Ultimately we want to prepare kids to race in those classes and make it desirable for them to choose them.
I'm not familiar with how much is used in 21.5 TC at present, perhaps someone in the know could fill us in?
The core classes are the IFMAR classes, and their feeder spec motor formats. The IFMAR classes offroad are 2WD and 4WD buggy; onroad they are TC and 12th scale. Having a plan to properly support those classes first and foremost is desirable. Ultimately we want to prepare kids to race in those classes and make it desirable for them to choose them.
05-18-2014, 08:22 PM
#33
Tech Rookie
Every second driver thinks there a pro..... There's your problem.
To go to a track, and see grown men fighting over toy cars.... Really appealing.
Its a fun past time. To get away from the stress's of work... Lets keep it that way.
To go to a track, and see grown men fighting over toy cars.... Really appealing.
Its a fun past time. To get away from the stress's of work... Lets keep it that way.
05-18-2014, 09:12 PM
#34
Agreed race days are too long.
I can usually squeeze in a quick bash session on the weekend. Contemplating taking the whole day off from my other commitments to take my nephew and his friends to race is definitely not going to happen.
How about having twilight racing just for the Juniors to compact racing into a shorter 2-3 hour period?
I can usually squeeze in a quick bash session on the weekend. Contemplating taking the whole day off from my other commitments to take my nephew and his friends to race is definitely not going to happen.
How about having twilight racing just for the Juniors to compact racing into a shorter 2-3 hour period?
05-18-2014, 09:20 PM
#35
I've read many good points and say many need to be paid attention to like marketing/information, clear rules, smiling senior racers, a budget entry class an a handful more, but I have either missed or it hasn't been mentioned that the local hobby shops play a big role in the disheartening of future racers, not just juniors. When I entered the world of RC it was to buy a toy but coming from a motocross background I new there would be tracks to play on. At the time I did not goto my local race days to see what was a common amongst the racers as I just wanted to drive around, I went to my into LHS saying I plan to play at the local tracks when I had time but I may race one day. They sold me something of the equivalent of the HSP cars, yes parts were available but very limited, yes the car was quick but to quick to drive on dirt, yes the RTR price was in my budge but so was the RC10T4 RTR, and no it wasn't as durable I later found out. Sounding familiar to many? I'll cut the story short and finish with that car was a piece of junk and was given away, it took years for me to recommend anyone to goto that hobby shop it had left me that bitter. As you can see I've stuck with the hobby but have watched many the same leave.
M.Ellis
M.Ellis
05-18-2014, 09:52 PM
#37
The big thing is that people go to there local hobby store buy an rtr then go off to there local track and get told by other racers 'oh thats a piece of shit you cant run that here!' so they go away upset and will never come anywhere close to another race track again, it happened to myself im not going to say where it happened or mention any names but it really put me of racing. Obviously im still racing today but i never went back to that club until i heard things changed etc.
But in saying this when i was on the committee we tryed to get a class going which was called Nitro Sport class it was basically one of our professional on road cars just without all the carbon and alloy pieces on it so it was a cheap style of racing. With these cars too once you had enough courage to move up to pro tourer then it wasn't that expensive to move up basically but a new motor and your racing. But our general feed back from some hobby stores was that its not going to work your wasting your time.
Its the attitude of some of the hobby stores that need to change also.
But in saying this when i was on the committee we tryed to get a class going which was called Nitro Sport class it was basically one of our professional on road cars just without all the carbon and alloy pieces on it so it was a cheap style of racing. With these cars too once you had enough courage to move up to pro tourer then it wasn't that expensive to move up basically but a new motor and your racing. But our general feed back from some hobby stores was that its not going to work your wasting your time.
Its the attitude of some of the hobby stores that need to change also.
05-18-2014, 10:31 PM
#38
It's only getting worse too!!!!
Yep
I put together a Tamiya DT02 buggy ( Holiday buggy ) for my mates 10yr old son to run & see if he liked r/c. It was just a basic buggy, Ball raced and with 3 new Li po hard case batteries and a 2.4G radio.
To say he liked it is a understatement . So his dad took him to the local race track to have a go in stock. The Club laughed at them saying he can't race it no matter what. His Dad was more then willing to buy a 17.5 set up through me but his son was burnt from their attitude and refuses to go back to the r/c club.
I was so annoyed and upset that our clubs treat kids this way. He still plays with his buggy every day in the park but has now taken up BMX racing instead with a 2nd hand $50 BMX and is doing really well.
So clubs & Hobby shops have really done most of the damage as well as a lot of racers attitude. I attended 1 race meet almost a year ago after not racing for 4 years and was stunned at how serious Stock was. I raced Stock & Mod and enjoyed mod so much more. We were laughing all the time on the drivers stand.
I't made me realize why I don't race cars any more & love my new form of r/c racing which embrace juniors all the time & with zero tolerance to bad sportsmanship & etiquette ............
I put together a Tamiya DT02 buggy ( Holiday buggy ) for my mates 10yr old son to run & see if he liked r/c. It was just a basic buggy, Ball raced and with 3 new Li po hard case batteries and a 2.4G radio.
To say he liked it is a understatement . So his dad took him to the local race track to have a go in stock. The Club laughed at them saying he can't race it no matter what. His Dad was more then willing to buy a 17.5 set up through me but his son was burnt from their attitude and refuses to go back to the r/c club.
I was so annoyed and upset that our clubs treat kids this way. He still plays with his buggy every day in the park but has now taken up BMX racing instead with a 2nd hand $50 BMX and is doing really well.
So clubs & Hobby shops have really done most of the damage as well as a lot of racers attitude. I attended 1 race meet almost a year ago after not racing for 4 years and was stunned at how serious Stock was. I raced Stock & Mod and enjoyed mod so much more. We were laughing all the time on the drivers stand.
I't made me realize why I don't race cars any more & love my new form of r/c racing which embrace juniors all the time & with zero tolerance to bad sportsmanship & etiquette ............
05-18-2014, 10:41 PM
#39
Its clear that, so far, there are 2 basic opinions on the problem – time and cost. This discussion is also not an unfamiliar one to anyone that’s spent more than a few years in the hobby. Once those years start adding up to decades it starts to sound like a scratched CD.
My first query refers to the post title – is RC racing a sport or a hobby? Certainly in recent years a more professional sports-like organisation and rules are being expected by more and more participants, but if it IS a sport why do people think its ok to treat it as less important than other organised sports they may participate in. If its only a hobby why do people carry on like a bunch of spoiled brats every time something happens they don't like?
A low cost spec class has been the holy grail of club organisers for decades but its never seriously gains a foothold. All the usual ideas get regurgitated – cheap chassis, cheap controlled electrics, battery limits – and sometimes it even works for a while but the majority of the time it fizzles out and those that do decide to stick around end up with, usually, uncompetitive cars being dumped in with whatever “stock” class exists.
Some of the other suggestions on using shorter meetings and less races have me aghast. There are people out there in this hobby who want me to have even LESS time racing that I have now? I go to clubs now where the race meeting, from track set up to pack down can be LESS than 4 hours and they STILL cannot attract new or younger members. To be brutal - does the hobby/sport REALLY need those that see it as too much of an inconvenience to put their other activities on hold for a few hours to come racing?
I suggest the real problems may stem from a completely different source – relevance. RC as it presents itself bears little resemblance and almost no relevance to what people are seeing on TV as motor sport. This has risen because of the 'performance is everything' RC'er and we've all met at least one of them, possibly whole groups of them at times. This is why classes like VTA came into being and F1 is having another resurgence. They LOOK like cars people see on TV, or the cars they loved watching at one time or another and it gives them something to connect to at a level that goes beyond just what the lap times say. Mini is a little bit the same.
Now I am not going to bang on about scale appearance and performance over looks because its been argued through a thousand times but I honestly believe that a key to attracting new people to the hobby is to start marketing it with classes that at least vaguely resemble what they are used to seeing on TV, or that the read about online or in magazines. It has to be exciting to them and that doesn't necessarily mean uber speed, it just means that they want to be there to race, something they want to be proud of.
Using myself as an example I've had far more fun in more recent times coming last in F1 than I have in years racing a protoblob cookiecutter touring car.
My one “back to the future” idea refers to race format. In recent years its become the norm to use a similar qualifying/race format as larger events – ie a number of qualifiers and, usually, a couple of finals. Why? When I started racing most clubs I was aware of, ran 5 or 6 self contained races over the course of the meeting and the results were awarded points and tallied at the end of the day (usually with a dropped worse result). Going back to something like this would address what some people see as an issue with not racing each other because its qualifying etc, because each race IS a race.
My first query refers to the post title – is RC racing a sport or a hobby? Certainly in recent years a more professional sports-like organisation and rules are being expected by more and more participants, but if it IS a sport why do people think its ok to treat it as less important than other organised sports they may participate in. If its only a hobby why do people carry on like a bunch of spoiled brats every time something happens they don't like?
A low cost spec class has been the holy grail of club organisers for decades but its never seriously gains a foothold. All the usual ideas get regurgitated – cheap chassis, cheap controlled electrics, battery limits – and sometimes it even works for a while but the majority of the time it fizzles out and those that do decide to stick around end up with, usually, uncompetitive cars being dumped in with whatever “stock” class exists.
Some of the other suggestions on using shorter meetings and less races have me aghast. There are people out there in this hobby who want me to have even LESS time racing that I have now? I go to clubs now where the race meeting, from track set up to pack down can be LESS than 4 hours and they STILL cannot attract new or younger members. To be brutal - does the hobby/sport REALLY need those that see it as too much of an inconvenience to put their other activities on hold for a few hours to come racing?
I suggest the real problems may stem from a completely different source – relevance. RC as it presents itself bears little resemblance and almost no relevance to what people are seeing on TV as motor sport. This has risen because of the 'performance is everything' RC'er and we've all met at least one of them, possibly whole groups of them at times. This is why classes like VTA came into being and F1 is having another resurgence. They LOOK like cars people see on TV, or the cars they loved watching at one time or another and it gives them something to connect to at a level that goes beyond just what the lap times say. Mini is a little bit the same.
Now I am not going to bang on about scale appearance and performance over looks because its been argued through a thousand times but I honestly believe that a key to attracting new people to the hobby is to start marketing it with classes that at least vaguely resemble what they are used to seeing on TV, or that the read about online or in magazines. It has to be exciting to them and that doesn't necessarily mean uber speed, it just means that they want to be there to race, something they want to be proud of.
Using myself as an example I've had far more fun in more recent times coming last in F1 than I have in years racing a protoblob cookiecutter touring car.
My one “back to the future” idea refers to race format. In recent years its become the norm to use a similar qualifying/race format as larger events – ie a number of qualifiers and, usually, a couple of finals. Why? When I started racing most clubs I was aware of, ran 5 or 6 self contained races over the course of the meeting and the results were awarded points and tallied at the end of the day (usually with a dropped worse result). Going back to something like this would address what some people see as an issue with not racing each other because its qualifying etc, because each race IS a race.
05-18-2014, 10:44 PM
#40
My son's first RC was a Holiday Buggy (got it when he was 3) and he loved it, he has an XB4 now, but only as I got one really cheap and so I can let him use my spares if need be, but in a Novice Class it should be run whatever, and you're right it's the attitude of a few who drive people away. That said I see some parents who can be at fault too, living through their child's achievements on the track, Win, lose, middle of the pack, it's a toy car!
05-19-2014, 12:54 AM
#41
My first query refers to the post title – is RC racing a sport or a hobby? Certainly in recent years a more professional sports-like organisation and rules are being expected by more and more participants, but if it IS a sport why do people think its ok to treat it as less important than other organised sports they may participate in. If its only a hobby why do people carry on like a bunch of spoiled brats every time something happens they don't like?
With regard to the rules expected: rules enforcement is seriously below what it was when I entered the sport. Far from expecting better rules enforcement the people actually get angry when we enforce the rules now. Bizarrely, I've seen juries overturn even the most fundamental rules.
Some of the other suggestions on using shorter meetings and less races have me aghast. There are people out there in this hobby who want me to have even LESS time racing that I have now? I go to clubs now where the race meeting, from track set up to pack down can be LESS than 4 hours and they STILL cannot attract new or younger members. To be brutal - does the hobby/sport REALLY need those that see it as too much of an inconvenience to put their other activities on hold for a few hours to come racing?
I suggest the real problems may stem from a completely different source – relevance. RC as it presents itself bears little resemblance and almost no relevance to what people are seeing on TV as motor sport. This has risen because of the 'performance is everything' RC'er and we've all met at least one of them, possibly whole groups of them at times. This is why classes like VTA came into being and F1 is having another resurgence. They LOOK like cars people see on TV, or the cars they loved watching at one time or another and it gives them something to connect to at a level that goes beyond just what the lap times say. Mini is a little bit the same.
Now I am not going to bang on about scale appearance and performance over looks because its been argued through a thousand times but I honestly believe that a key to attracting new people to the hobby is to start marketing it with classes that at least vaguely resemble what they are used to seeing on TV, or that the read about online or in magazines. It has to be exciting to them and that doesn't necessarily mean uber speed, it just means that they want to be there to race, something they want to be proud of.
Using myself as an example I've had far more fun in more recent times coming last in F1 than I have in years racing a protoblob cookiecutter touring car.
Now I am not going to bang on about scale appearance and performance over looks because its been argued through a thousand times but I honestly believe that a key to attracting new people to the hobby is to start marketing it with classes that at least vaguely resemble what they are used to seeing on TV, or that the read about online or in magazines. It has to be exciting to them and that doesn't necessarily mean uber speed, it just means that they want to be there to race, something they want to be proud of.
Using myself as an example I've had far more fun in more recent times coming last in F1 than I have in years racing a protoblob cookiecutter touring car.
05-19-2014, 01:10 AM
#42
Tech Rookie
Maybe if someone took an intrest, visited a race day in Adelaide with two teenage boys, both had cars....not one person spoke to,us, we wandered about and where totally ignored.
We now race by ourselves as the boys thought it wasn't,t for them.
We now race by ourselves as the boys thought it wasn't,t for them.
05-19-2014, 01:18 AM
#43
Most people here are putting forward a number of reasons why there's so very few kids involved in rc racing today.
Factors mentioned include, time, cost, club/peoples attitude, but the biggest one is right in front of our very eyes as you read and/or comment on this topic - Technology.
Get on a train that's full of school kids and you can count the number on your hand of those not staring at some hand held smart device, that are probably updating their statuses and/or communicating with their friend/s who may be in the next carriage.
While technology has benefited rc racing, it's also created things that attract kids and their attention.
How do we address this, I'm not sure how, but it is something to keep in mind when drawing up any action plan for the future.
Cheers
Rob.
Factors mentioned include, time, cost, club/peoples attitude, but the biggest one is right in front of our very eyes as you read and/or comment on this topic - Technology.
Get on a train that's full of school kids and you can count the number on your hand of those not staring at some hand held smart device, that are probably updating their statuses and/or communicating with their friend/s who may be in the next carriage.
While technology has benefited rc racing, it's also created things that attract kids and their attention.
How do we address this, I'm not sure how, but it is something to keep in mind when drawing up any action plan for the future.
Cheers
Rob.
05-19-2014, 01:41 AM
#44
Tech Rookie
We have an alternate school, using rc cars as a method of learning......our vist to the club racing day did nothing for their intrest in joining. Their take on it....a bunch of old guys playing with their cars.....like I said they have gone back to racing their cars away from a club.
They know the cars and are good at it, the tech stuff is easy for them.....if someone had at least said something to them or made them welcome they would have been in it.....that's why I took them there.
They know the cars and are good at it, the tech stuff is easy for them.....if someone had at least said something to them or made them welcome they would have been in it.....that's why I took them there.
05-19-2014, 02:30 AM
#45
Suspended
We have an alternate school, using rc cars as a method of learning......our vist to the club racing day did nothing for their intrest in joining. Their take on it....a bunch of old guys playing with their cars.....like I said they have gone back to racing their cars away from a club.
They know the cars and are good at it, the tech stuff is easy for them.....if someone had at least said something to them or made them welcome they would have been in it.....that's why I took them there.
They know the cars and are good at it, the tech stuff is easy for them.....if someone had at least said something to them or made them welcome they would have been in it.....that's why I took them there.
I am not talking 1 guy here, I am talking a group of 10 F1 racers. Who, because i talked to them and got them to come to one of our meetings are now all hooked on compeditive racing with their F1's and have just about all bought 12th scales and are racing both classes each week. That is $150+ a week the club is not getting all because they were rude.
My own experiences with Gas racing were similar, I went once with my gear, raced and was made to feel like such a leper and that my presence was such an imposition that i never went back again.
At another club i was grunted at by the person taking my money, like it is so hard to say hello and welcome to our club, or even traveling interstate to race a club official was more interested in ripping me a new one because i was standing near the pit lane in open shoes inspecting the layout after a 10 hour drive, no welcome, not Hi how was your drive, just get out of there in those shoes.
All of these are simple things, but, for some reason, many clubs cannot get even this right. And when the fundamentals are wrong, how can you expect anyone to get junior racing right.
Sure we can make a class and have someone sanction it, but unless we have governance and national standards for operation, of junior divisions, it just takes 1 cranky old man who is more interested in himself and his own issues to destroy it for everyone.