Henry#40

iTrader: (9)

I think RC is better too, but not everyone loves RC.
Most kids LIKE RC, but you have to LOVE RC to put the effort in to race.
When I was a kid I would spend hours working on my Tamiya Frog to have 5 minutes of fun. I have friends that give their kids brushless/lipo powered RC cars that make my old Frog seem like a POS and they think they're awesome.........for 10 minutes.
It would be great to have a strong Junior contingent on race days but unfortunately, most(not all) kids just couldn't be bothered.
Luckily for our sport/hobby, age really doesn't matter on the track meaning the passionate kids can still race.

Radio Active

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I hear that type of thing a lot Desi. I'm not saying there isn't something to it. My problem is, that that line of reasoning seems to be an excuse to not do anything different. Not to try and build for the future. It seems very defeatist. As far as I can tell, we haven't tried anything new to keep juniors in 20 years, and we're all walking around saying, 'nothing will work' – how do we know that!?

There were always plenty of kids who liked other games/toys more than RC. Maybe there are more of them now, but I just take that to mean we have to try harder to bring in new juniors and get the structure right to keep the ones we do get.

If we do that then I believe there will be more who'll find the same enjoyment we have and stick around.

AussieTopForce

iTrader: (4)

OK, so if kids just aren't into it as much as X gen kids were, then what is the target demographic for our sport/hobby?

Maybe the way to grow the sport is not to try and get kids, but get adults in? Kids don't listen to parents much, but they certainly watch and mostly follow suite with action. My kids like RC, but Mario, Sonic, Disney Infinity, Mine craft well they're inside doing that while I'm outside running the RC's.

However, bring the kids to the track and they'll race. Class to be honest, they don't care, as long as they get a run and have some fun.

This thread is good for ideas, as we are about to start a club down here in the Southern Highlands and will on a membership drive.

Is it critical we don't have lots of kids? Is it more critical we have interested adults, who can pay membership and race fees?

bru00z

iTrader: (8)

You are right that kids don't care what class they are racing but they are fickle as people have mentioned so if we don't make it as fun as possible they wont want to come back.

Novice is good but junior stock with ONLY kids racing is all my son talks about now. If there was a junior stock class next weekend at the NSW State Titles he would be racing but as there is not and his is not good enough for normal stock he wont even be coming to the track which is a shame as participating in an event like this would grow his enthusiasm for racing even more.

Kids coming racing also means parents are taking them and more often than not then the parents will race too so then growing the club membership two fold. I am lucky right now that my son is so keen to race but if his interest drops off I wont be able to go a much as I can when he comes along so I do have an ulterior motive on this one.

AussieTopForce

iTrader: (4)

Good points Alex, my oldest son is getting interested but he's only seven and still learning to drive. My oldest daughter just likes having a go when I go. She usually runs Novice, but its something to do for her and not a 'competitive' thing.

I agree a class for kids (jnr) is a way to go, but it needs the numbers.

I guess the point I was trying to make, was get the parents hooked and the kids will follow, rather than the other way around.

ray_munday

iTrader: (4)

I started racing at 14, have been racing for over 20 years, and now have an 8yo son racing.

This thread has made me quite despondent about the attitudes of people in rc. Its quite obvious that RC is a hobby of toys, for adults, kids need not apply.

Please name ANY other sport that does not have a junior category. Even chess, a sport that is 100% non-physical, has a junior league in Australia.

There is little encouragement for juniors (I couldnt tell you the last time I saw a trophy for top junior) so its no wonder kids and parents arent attracted to racing.

17.5 is NOT a junior class.
21.5 in Victoria is NOT a junior class.

Yes, RC is not exactly a physical sport. But kids are mentally not as developed as adults, and its hard to stay motivated when you are racing hard, and only making b or c finals. Adults dont like it either, which is why we have development classes. My son is 8 and gets quite intimidated racing adults, but loves racing his mates. I have seen young kids getting abused for marshalling, and I have seen prospective parents walk away. Yes, you can penalise the driver who abused the kid, but by then its too late.

Its correct that you need to market to adults who are parents. But by not having any form of junior participation, you are not making it attractive to parents compared to other forms of sport.

Its true that time is an issue at big events, but we seem to be able to find time for demo classes at big events...

I don't know that a junior class at big events is the only answer, but it would be great to see a better attitude towards juniors at club / state level.

Maybe the more realistic option is some junior focussed local events which would mean that they dont take up precious time from adults racing their multiple classes at big events. They would probably be a bit shorter as well, which would help attract parents. Have a look at how many hundreds of thousands of parents drive their kids around to play sport a few hours each weekend in Australia without actually participating... parents will do a lot for their kids if they think a sport is giving something back.

My son is 8 and he really enjoys his driving and hanging out with his mates, but after being told off a few times for not letting lapping drivers through he gets nervous on the stand. There are a few kids under 12 racing in Victoria, and they all have a great time with each other which is awesome to see. Currently they are battling in the lower half of the A / upper half of the B in 21.5. It would be awesome for them to have their own class, gaining confidence and not getting in the way of other racers, but that isnt going to happen any time soon. Now we have top 17,5 drivers entering 21.5, its only going to be more discouraging for them and their parents.

I know this post wont change anything, but I encourage you to remember that when we don't encourage juniors, its crazy to think we will attract many.

Its great to hear that some clubs are really pushing the junior classes at their club. Wait to see where those clubs are in a few years - I reckon they will be in a very strong position!

Ray

Painy

iTrader: (2)

Can I ask... Do you think your son would be interested in it or even race to start with it his father was not already a racer? Let's face it, most kids idolise there fathers.. Most kids that are getting into this sport, already have a sibling it parent racing. Even if there was a junior class at big events.. These kids need to get out of rookie class. When a perent looks at the sport vs the cost's involved. Game over. Most parents don't understand the sport. Or cant even understand the commitment/costs required to race a toy car..

Chess boards are cheap and you don't need to spend 15 dollars every 5 mins of play time.

Painy

iTrader: (2)

Fact or the matter.. It's an adult sport.. The demographic is 20pluss years. It's expensive as hell, kids can't afford it and 90 percent of parents won't spend what is needed.

Painy

iTrader: (2)

Before dan jumps in... Even saving a driver 30 dollars at a state title won't change much.

Painy

iTrader: (2)

But.. In saying all that. Why don't we offer a 2wd 21.5 demo class for under 16's at state titles and nats... Two pairs of tires max. See how it goes....

Radio Active

iTrader: (2)

One off demo classes won't change anything. They will just expose the weakness we have. We need commitment from the top down, and a plan/pathway to change things. Let's give the parents some confidence that we're creating a system for their kids.

ray_munday

iTrader: (4)

Hi Painy,

that's not an unreasonable question. But many people start sports that their parents are involved / interested in. There is very little promotion of the sport so unless you go to a hobby shop that promotes the local track, its hard for new kids/adults to know about the sport. But once you have interest, you also need to be able to attract them by offering something.

Knowing that you are turning up to a race against adults, who have very good equipment and take it very seriously, is always a tough sell (its a tough sell for newcomer adults as well).

I know quite a few racers already in rc who are reluctant to bring their kids to the track because they have to go up against adults. In Vic the 21.5 class, while far from a junior class, at least takes the kids out of the highly competitive environment of the 17,5 classes. Even then, I know several racers who dont want their kids in the class for fear of being permanently put off by the risk of an adult having a go.

Kids sports are not cheap, so I dont buy the cost argument 100%, and I think rc is selling itself short. I didnt realise how expensive kids activities were until I had Lachlan! Its costs $250 a term for swimming. Kids karate was $90 per term plus $10 for every 30 minute session (from memory) plus uniform plus equipment hire etc etc....

Being a parent now has changed my outlook I admit. Since my son has taken an interest my wife is right behind it (even cleaning tyres!) but she cant understand why the kids are in with the adults, and is questioning the logic of him going to the state rounds.

If at the very least we re-attract racers to the sport who now have kids, surely we would be in a better position as we would have 2 people racing (adult and kid).

It needs to start at club level,but as Daniel has alluded to if there was a more unified approach around Australia, it would help.

Ive got lots of other things to say, but need to run to work. Gotta pay for swimming somehow!!!

Its a good discussion, and I hope it can stay civil.

Ray

frozenpod

iTrader: (1)

Agree great discussion.

Yes that is the current demographic but when I starting racing as a kid in the early 90's there were lots of kids at the track.

Some of the kids I raced with then still race today. Some took breaks and returned to RC as an adult.

Even a few kids at the track with a few mums and dads makes a huge difference to club days. They pitch in help run the day, help with food ect so serious racers can just concentrate on racing.

I also agree it is very expensive and we also need to find a ways to reduce costs.

adelaidetoffee

iTrader: (35)

I agree with Ray my son just started bmx which cost about 1k to get setup in with a cheapish bike and riding gear. He also loves racing Rc cars but not against adults as he is then intimidated by them just due to the age difference.
I did the Vic titles at woodonga and ran in 21.5 as I've only just started racing it was good but I wouldn't do it again, I think 21.5 should be for juniors and adults should run 17.5. If your not competitive it makes you try harder to work on your car. I wasn't competitive in 21.5 as I didn't set my car up properly and was beaten by kids convincingly.
As far as people abusing marshals it shouldn't happen what ever class you run but it does and the penalties should be severe or it won't stop. Marshals help fix your mistakes and the emotional response is to get angry but if you don't crash you won't need them.

semper

I doubt many parents think of rc cars as "sport equipment". The vast majority of them would think of them as toys and price/value them accordingly. The entry level class should therefore be cheap, simple, and to our eyes toy like. We're talking Tamiya kits, next to no gear ratio options, kit tires, batteries charged overnight, tools that came with the kit etc...
I helped a junior awhile back. His car didn't track straight, unequal lock side to side, slipper too tight etc... His father, who had obviously read up alot on the subject wanted a 72t spur gear... They lasted 3 months. The equipment, and the rules that made it necessary, were simply too much for them. It's easy to forget that the basics were not something we were born with..
If you want broader appeal, you need to lower the cost/skill level required.