TryHard

iTrader: (4)

In simple response on the BRCA... mod is back for next year, with 10.5 boosted dropped and to be replaced with 13.5 blinky. National numbers were well down with the single class. 130 drivers was common before, this year some nationals were down to around 80.

I agree with what a lot of people have said. 4 classes is too much, Modified should be open, anything goes, and 21.5 blinky is an ideal bottom rung class (IMO, could be even better with a control motor, one without timing adjustment, or an FDR limit to control speed/temps).

The issue seems to be the middle rung... IMO, it should be blinky regardless, which leaves the toss up to motor. 17.5 or 13.5.
Both are good options, depending on track size and so on... and I don't have the answer. Personally I would lean towards the slower motors, as that (as has been mentioned) would possibly aid mod entries too.. with boosted mod, you can happily run 5.5's or higher, and still be competitive.

Don't forget that the ETS runs to an FDR limit with the 13.5/spec class as well

Ed

Swanny

iTrader: (3)

I find it interesting with this thread in that it seems to be a "back to the future" discussion with talk of going to 17.5 and 10.5 blinky when that's where the spec classes started with the switch to brushless.

I never raced 17.5 at the start as I went to 10.5 from 19 Turn. I probably never got my head fully around timing in 10.5 once it came in, but since going to 17.5, I have got my head around it.

I would liken 17.5 with timing similar to 10.5 without.

The other thing of interest is the re-introduction of the intermediate class when it was dropped a year or two back.

My opinion is that the timing advance speed controls did a lot of harm to the spec classes, making the only thing spec about them the motor. This is evidenced by the move in various parts of the world away from timing advance to Blinky profiles, the way it was in the beginning.

I would happily dig my 10.5 out and put it back in if that's the way it went. What really needs to happen is that the whole country needs to have the same motors so that anyone can go anywhere and not have to buy a new motor for a specific event because it's not what they run back home. Having certain states doing their own thing is counter productive to the national picture.

Discussion on the Internet is one thing. It needs a club to put a suggestion forward for something to happen.

My vote would be 17.5 blinky, 10.5 blinky and Mod so as to keep the costs down as most will have these motors already.

narcotiks

iTrader: (8)

At least one of the spec classes needs to be boosted, this provides a learning base/ experience for people moving to mod. I think the ideal would be 21.5 blinky, 13.5 blinky, 13.5 boosted, mod. At our local club we have 540 novice , 540 pro, F1, 21.5 boosted , 13.5 boosted, then mod
So we have plenty of room... I think that there needs to be at least a slightly significant speed increase from class to class to keep people interested and getting better!

MrRolla

iTrader: (30)

Problem is that is 4 classes, 3 would be the max without diluting the other classes.

ta04evah

iTrader: (2)

Likewise at Castle hill, had more power out of the corners but 17.5 boosted had a higher top speed, lap time differences were around .2 sec between the fasted 17.5 boosted & 13.5 blinky.
Of interest a 17.5 blinky with end bell timing was just as quick in lap times on the circut.

Even on a low grip surface the 13.5 was reasonably easy to drive, just had to turn the "punch" down on the esc a little and be more gentle on the throttle out of the corners.

I had intended to do more testing next week, but had an unfortunate accident which pretty much damaged my testing car substantially.
Will be easing into a new car until I'm satisfied with it's handling and I'll resume testing shortly afterwards.

Cheers
Rob.

TryHard

iTrader: (4)

TO be honest, from this discussion, the biggest thing to sort out first is whether the middle rung stock class should be boosted or not. Once that's sorted, then a speed level can be selected... sort that out, and maybe some agreement can be achieved upon

Radio Active

iTrader: (2)

I think eventually it will turn into a 2 horse race between 17.5 boosted and 13.5 blinky. 17.5 boosted is already the AARCMCC class, so if that has the backing of most, it's almost a harder proposition because you don't have the comparatively easy task of getting a vote through the national body but instead convincing another 2 state associations to adopt AARCMCC rules when they've already deliberately chosen something else.

Right now you're thinking, what is Daniel on? 13.5 blinky requires everyone to change! Well yes, that's true, but maybe because of that it is easier. That option represents a fresh start for everyone – it can be seen as a compromise or a collective decision. With 17.5 boosted you'll have people in NSW and WA telling people in Qld and Vic, adopt our rules, this is no different to what has been happening for the last 2 years with no progress as yet. If anything, the camps are even more set in their positions.

It seems most of the rest of the world has now adopted 13.5 blinky, so perhaps we should seriously consider it as the best option.

ta04evah

iTrader: (2)

+1 That would get my vote.

Sure, it would mean a new motor for all, but for those that are currently racing 21.5 blinky, the next step would have meant a new motor anyway.
Plus those with the Justocks, Cirtix club sports, Novak edge's etc wouldn't have to upgrade their esc.

Seems like a good compromise in reaching that "middle rung".

Cheers
Rob.

Pattojnr

iTrader: (19)

also the discussion was for sanctioned events, not what should change for clubs to run, to effect their numbers.

i think 17.5 boosted is ok, yet alot of people are smoking their gear. small tracks around australia, times seem to be close from stock and Mod. so really what are you guys trying to do ? make it less a jump from stock to Mod, or make a jump from lower classes like novice to stock, less of a gap. if that is the case, then the intermediate class is required, or the jump from stock to mod will get so much bigger. but also the changes here as i understand are for sanctioned events. as a club here in perth, Big open track, VTA 17.5 blinky is our biggest class. we dont run novice. so our stock class would be pointless to go 17.5 blinky. but we are going to try 10.5 blinky next weekend. we have suffered a loss of numbers in stock, and we need to work to get them back, i feel it was more so equipment failure due to the demand given for competition. if we can control the FDR then we can control the equipment failure, and the class looks a whole lot more affordable to run again. guys moved up to mod, wiht some 6.5 5.5 motors, not having to boost the hell out of them, the speed was managable, and equipment failure is next to none. we would like stock back again and if we can do it wiht blinky 10.5 which alot of guys are keen on here, then the future looks good again for the club.

Pattojnr

iTrader: (19)

maybe previously WA has been distanced in that regard, and its funny you meantion we ask to adpot our rules ! it wouldnt happen. wiht everyones mindset on WA. so what ill try to do is work wiht suggestions here, and try out options you guys have in mind, to see if it can work here, so we can sort of align ourselves more with the rest of AU. i wouldnt like to see us be even further seperated with what we run, id like to close the gap some how, and maybe gain some more respect for our racing here, not make things worse.

WildManDriving

iTrader: (30)

So am I reading this correctly, the most likely class choices are:
17.5 Blinky, 17.5 Boosted and Mod or 17.5 Blinky, 13.5 Blinky and Mod?
I'd like to see 10.5 Blinky there instead of 13 but most manufactures development seems to be going into 21, 17 and 13.
I lean towards 17.5, 17.5B, Mod with the reasoning why stop Boosted technology for those that enjoy it. Though in the same mouthful I can argue against myself as I do think there is good chance people will get frustrated with Boosted, load Blinky software and move back (me being one).
Either way I'd say yes. Then leaving the hosting club the option to run a demo class if time permits like VTA, 21.5 Blinky, F1 etc.

Now at 4 cents,
Michael.

Pattojnr

iTrader: (19)

this makes it hard then, as now there is an extra class there , not to mention mini is now sanctioned, and add 12th scale when numbers are enough, and a demo class. the fact that many federations around the world are now starting to run blinky in stock classes, this maybe the way we have to go. but its no reason to stop boosted classes with in your own club, if its going to be rewarding for the club to do so.

Radio Active

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, good point. Originally I just wrote NSW, but then thought that was unfair on WA who are diligent in running the AARCMCC rules. I suppose I should include SA as well but I don't often hear a lot about what goes on there.

Radio Active

iTrader: (2)

What I've been trying to get across is that we should be running at sanctioned events what we run at clubs. Most clubs run the sanctioned classes, where they don't they hurt their own numbers and they hurt numbers at the sanctioned events.

If I'm racing at a club in one configuration and there is a sanctioned event coming up with a different motor config I'll want to practice in that config. If my club lets me do that and a few others, immediately we've diluted the racing at my home club. If they don't let me do it I think what's the point of getting new equipment just for the sanctioned meet and I don't go. Or I look for another club to run at. Maybe boost to non-boost wouldn't be so bad, but having to have a different motor will certainly hurt.

At the end of the day most of us do more club racing than sanctioned racing. If numbers are strong at clubs then they will be strong at sanctioned meets too, if the motor config is the same. So, selecting motors that suit clubs has to be the number 1 priority to grow the sport.

Pattojnr

iTrader: (19)

maybe there is a mis-perception on what goes on over here. we run MOD (AARCMCC) we offer stock (AARCMCC) mini (AARCMCC) we then have VTA, F1 and an 8th scale EP class. but for what ever reason we have lost just about all stock drivers. either they have moved to Mod, or have left, and we are trying to figure out why. is it due to Boosted ? equipment failure ? Speed ? so if we dont try a new configuration, we will never get them back. this is why im trying to align some of the options here to test. already we have 3 or 4 guys saying they will return if it was 10.5 blinky. so there is a start for us.
also look at it like this, what you may think is fast for your track, lets say MOD, software can make it hard, can make it fragile, and you may not have the track to try out settings, so at some point, you will have to change the way you think about setup, and software. motor turn isnt important, if your traveling, i cant see why a change of motor is deemed so bad, especially when your not having to think about software setup. get your ratio and work on car setup, its so much easier to contend with. and i will add, if a FDR is set as Maximum, then you already know what pinions etc, you need to take with you.