View Poll Results: Vote for your club racing tire preference
Open choice rubber or foam for all classes
59
42.45%
Foam for all classes
9
6.47%
Rubber for all classes
35
25.18%
Rubber only for control classes (540, Stock), Foam for everything else (Mod, Nitro)
26
18.71%
Don\'t care!
10
7.19%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll
Rubber vs Foam Tires - let the battle begin!
08-25-2002, 07:00 PM
#136
i doubt legislating for the use of 'rubber' tyres (as opposed to a control rubber tyre) would kill off many companies... the number of foam manufactures can be just about be listed on 1 hand (so long as you group the GRP stuff together!) and many of them make rubber as well.
08-25-2002, 11:58 PM
#137
Corraly, Sprint/Ellige, TRC, Dak (I think that's what there called), Proline. I think these guys are all separate.
I'm concerned that we run the risk of repating the mistakes of the past.
While there were other factors at play as well, one of the major reasons Off-Road died was all you could get (here at least) with any reliability was Losi. If you were running somthing else you all but had to have a pipe line to the supplier to get bits.
One of the best things about OnRoad is the variaty of ways people use to arive at the same place.
I'm concerned that we run the risk of repating the mistakes of the past.
While there were other factors at play as well, one of the major reasons Off-Road died was all you could get (here at least) with any reliability was Losi. If you were running somthing else you all but had to have a pipe line to the supplier to get bits.
One of the best things about OnRoad is the variaty of ways people use to arive at the same place.
08-26-2002, 05:43 AM
#138
Why do a fair few people still use foams?
1. Because they like to go as fast as possible. Foams are IMHO still better for bitumen and carpet tracks, although rubber has certainly closed the gap in terms of performance.
2. As nerdling alluded to, they still have a sour taste in their mouth from the early generation of rubber tyres.
Having said that, if we go down the path for rubber tyres only or rubber tyres in the control classes, I see no need for a control tyre.
From what I have seen, you could throw a blanket over the major brands and the different types of inserts. That leaves the various compounds where selection is pretty much governed by temperature.
This brings me to my final point: If we legislate too tightly how many drivers will feel alienated because they have made a significant investment in tyres (because they work, available, etc) to be told that they can't use them and they now have to buy brand xyz?
1. Because they like to go as fast as possible. Foams are IMHO still better for bitumen and carpet tracks, although rubber has certainly closed the gap in terms of performance.
2. As nerdling alluded to, they still have a sour taste in their mouth from the early generation of rubber tyres.
Having said that, if we go down the path for rubber tyres only or rubber tyres in the control classes, I see no need for a control tyre.
From what I have seen, you could throw a blanket over the major brands and the different types of inserts. That leaves the various compounds where selection is pretty much governed by temperature.
This brings me to my final point: If we legislate too tightly how many drivers will feel alienated because they have made a significant investment in tyres (because they work, available, etc) to be told that they can't use them and they now have to buy brand xyz?
08-26-2002, 01:56 PM
#139
rubber tyres are not like off road cars, there are many brands compounds and suppliers, many of which 'work'
there are far fewer manufacturers or foam and lots of 'badge engineering' (although i do have som suspisions about rubber) than you would believe.
at the limit i dont think any one is questioning the level of performance of foam - ask yourself why does F1 have grooves in there tyres - surley the bset performamnce coms from full slicks? it not an arguement, if it was every mod car would have a brushless motor - they have far superior performance to the ones used now
as nerdling also stated he was impressed with the current generation of rubber - so what about the past - build a bridge!
and i agree no control tyres in an open class
the only thing that could be such a big investment would be a tyre truer - an no change ever happened over night (except in vic )
there are far fewer manufacturers or foam and lots of 'badge engineering' (although i do have som suspisions about rubber) than you would believe.
at the limit i dont think any one is questioning the level of performance of foam - ask yourself why does F1 have grooves in there tyres - surley the bset performamnce coms from full slicks? it not an arguement, if it was every mod car would have a brushless motor - they have far superior performance to the ones used now
as nerdling also stated he was impressed with the current generation of rubber - so what about the past - build a bridge!
and i agree no control tyres in an open class
the only thing that could be such a big investment would be a tyre truer - an no change ever happened over night (except in vic
)
08-26-2002, 02:56 PM
#140
Guys, there one other reason foams are more popular:
Ease of use. You buy them, you put them on the car, you race with them until they need to be replaced, you don't necesarly need a tyre truer.
With Rubbers you have the following: Buy them, buy or clean some rims (remember the old days where you had to soak your old rims on asertone to get them clean) and then glue them on to the rims (while making sure you don't glue yourself to the rim, rim to the table, your self to the table etc etc etc).
Control tyres at a club level are fine how ever I'm against this at a state and national level simply because of supply. For example, the a HPI tyre is used in one of the 540 classes at CH, I've not seen HPI tyres for sale here, and where only 3 hours up the road!
Ease of use. You buy them, you put them on the car, you race with them until they need to be replaced, you don't necesarly need a tyre truer.
With Rubbers you have the following: Buy them, buy or clean some rims (remember the old days where you had to soak your old rims on asertone to get them clean) and then glue them on to the rims (while making sure you don't glue yourself to the rim, rim to the table, your self to the table etc etc etc).
Control tyres at a club level are fine how ever I'm against this at a state and national level simply because of supply. For example, the a HPI tyre is used in one of the 540 classes at CH, I've not seen HPI tyres for sale here, and where only 3 hours up the road!
08-26-2002, 04:57 PM
#143
i dont think anyone has suggested a national control tyre, probably for the very reason you are suggesting.
nsw and the rest of the country should look at making the switch to rubber tyres.
the only arguement really is do we follow international trends or not?
nsw and the rest of the country should look at making the switch to rubber tyres.
the only arguement really is do we follow international trends or not?
08-26-2002, 06:13 PM
#144
Thanks contact, I'll put the paranoia back in it's box now.
Has the rest of Australia gone to Rubber? (VIC Excepted) I don't know... really!
It won't stop me from racing, but if we did make the change we'll lose drivers. Is this somthing we can afford to do?
How do you implement the change? If you make a sudden change with out informing anyone, you'll lose people who still have a substantial investment in foams (witnes the way in which G20 was dropped).
A 12 month amesty would be much better, if indeed the decsion was made to change to rubber.
Has the rest of Australia gone to Rubber? (VIC Excepted) I don't know... really!
It won't stop me from racing, but if we did make the change we'll lose drivers. Is this somthing we can afford to do?
How do you implement the change? If you make a sudden change with out informing anyone, you'll lose people who still have a substantial investment in foams (witnes the way in which G20 was dropped).
A 12 month amesty would be much better, if indeed the decsion was made to change to rubber.
08-26-2002, 08:09 PM
#145
Contact wouldnt the international trend be going back to Foam, initially gas cars were all supplied with rubber, now the PRO versions are being supplied with foam, and the gas rules have gone from rubber to foam, in America they have gone from rubber on carpet to foam on carpet, how long will it be until outdoor is again back to foam?
The only thing keeping rubber in the top echelons of racing is that the manufacturers make a ton of money out of rubber, if the sanctioning bodies were run by racers rubber would already be out the door. Case Closed.
The only thing keeping rubber in the top echelons of racing is that the manufacturers make a ton of money out of rubber, if the sanctioning bodies were run by racers rubber would already be out the door. Case Closed.
08-26-2002, 08:45 PM
#146
Tech Rookie
let the track decide!
test on the surface before the race
if rubbers are better use rubbers
if foams grip better the use the bloody foams
no one can say one is better because it depends on the weather , temperature and the surface
l8erz
rob
test on the surface before the race
if rubbers are better use rubbers
if foams grip better the use the bloody foams
no one can say one is better because it depends on the weather , temperature and the surface
l8erz
rob
08-26-2002, 09:12 PM
#147
look i dont know what the sanctioning bodies have got in mind, tony grey has contact roar and said rubber it is for the forseeable future... just about all major out door events for electric cars all over the world are run on rubber (foam is the standard for nitro)
i dont think you could find strong evidence that points to foam becomming the standard out doors... efra is strong, roar is strong femca perhaps is not leading as strong as the others.
even if the world changed back to foam its no big thing just make changes to the rules we follow
we need rules by which the sport is goverened or we will only serve to turn people away, and racers rules IMHO lead to checkbook racing - which is why every popular form of motorsport is governed/controlled world wide (with in the rules there is generally enough scope for enough checkbook racing anyway see HRT vs lansvale for an example)
g20 was an australian only thing and ended up in essence a control motor class - i cant see that happening to rubber tyres - nor could anychange over happen that quickly... well that what i would have thought anyway
its fine to let the track decide - but makes it very hard to get any consistency or organised for big events
we run international formulas in just about every way except tyres, why panic rubber does not make the car that much harder to drive
at the end of the day i have a good collection of both foam and rubber tyres, some of both types work and sometimes foam is better and sometimes rubber is better... i think its better for the sport and the growth of the sport if rubber was the tyre material of choice - punters who dont race now understands rubber and its common sence that thats what you find on racing cars people starting out can cope with that and their car will almost certainly have rubber tyres
even if there were classes that were restricted to rubber (not controlled rubber but!) i think that those classes would be strenghtened.
we have to stop thinking about personal perference and look to the future and try to work out what will benefit the sport ... even if rubber is only used for a season or 2 i think its worth a try
i dont think you could find strong evidence that points to foam becomming the standard out doors... efra is strong, roar is strong femca perhaps is not leading as strong as the others.
even if the world changed back to foam its no big thing just make changes to the rules we follow
we need rules by which the sport is goverened or we will only serve to turn people away, and racers rules IMHO lead to checkbook racing - which is why every popular form of motorsport is governed/controlled world wide (with in the rules there is generally enough scope for enough checkbook racing anyway see HRT vs lansvale for an example)
g20 was an australian only thing and ended up in essence a control motor class - i cant see that happening to rubber tyres - nor could anychange over happen that quickly... well that what i would have thought anyway
its fine to let the track decide - but makes it very hard to get any consistency or organised for big events
we run international formulas in just about every way except tyres, why panic rubber does not make the car that much harder to drive
at the end of the day i have a good collection of both foam and rubber tyres, some of both types work and sometimes foam is better and sometimes rubber is better... i think its better for the sport and the growth of the sport if rubber was the tyre material of choice - punters who dont race now understands rubber and its common sence that thats what you find on racing cars people starting out can cope with that and their car will almost certainly have rubber tyres
even if there were classes that were restricted to rubber (not controlled rubber but!) i think that those classes would be strenghtened.
we have to stop thinking about personal perference and look to the future and try to work out what will benefit the sport ... even if rubber is only used for a season or 2 i think its worth a try
Last edited by contact; 08-26-2002 at 09:28 PM.
08-26-2002, 10:25 PM
#148
I can't seem to find the "Delete Thread" icon on my tool bar LMAO!!!!! This will never die.
Hey, so who is the national body, or do we have a few that claim to be the national body.
I have heard of a few in Australia but what does it all mean. Who does what and for whom. I had a talk to somone about this once and it appeared to me that they only looked after one side of the sport.
Coxy.
Hey, so who is the national body, or do we have a few that claim to be the national body.
I have heard of a few in Australia but what does it all mean. Who does what and for whom. I had a talk to somone about this once and it appeared to me that they only looked after one side of the sport.
Coxy.
08-26-2002, 11:28 PM
#149
Dont go there Coxy, are you referring to to the people who claim to be the governing body, the people who run the meetings, or the people who stew around in the pits discussing how things are meant to be run. At the moment i dont think there is any one true governing body, that all went out the window years ago, i think it has a lot to do with the seemingly endless overinflated egos that seem to propagate in this hobby.
The people who do the work end up being shamed out by some racers, or they turn everything into their own little dictatorship.
Have a nice day, (Coxy - that should provide a bit of fuel for the fire)
The people who do the work end up being shamed out by some racers, or they turn everything into their own little dictatorship.
Have a nice day, (Coxy - that should provide a bit of fuel for the fire)
