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iTrader: (2)

Any thoughts on the suggested Scratch Build rules I posted David?

RCformula1

Following feedback amend this to:

Proposed rule – addition to Rule 1:

Modellers may build their own Chassis following the rules in the Appendix.

Appendix - Custom Chassis

It is recognised that the F1 class may appeal to modellers and provides an opportunity for modelling that other classes may not.

Custom 1:10 scale F1 Chassis may be approved as legal provided the following minimum requirements are met:

- All references to commercial F1 parts in these rules refers to parts for 1:10 scale F1 models.
- All pieces of the chassis including main chassis, top deck and rear pod must be custom made (because these rules are for modellers and not for racers trying to simply merge the best bits of various commercial chassis).
- Any parts for any commercially available F1 car may be attached to the custom chassis. You may also custom make any or all parts except where these rules state otherwise. Commercial parts not manufactured for F1 chassis are not allowed.
- Cars must meet all technical regulations commercially built cars must comply with (refer to the main rules).
- Chassis must be fitted with a commercially available F1 body and wings or a custom made body and wings based on the scale dimensions of a real world F1 body and wings (of any time period).
- The front wing may not be wider than the width of the front tyres. The rear wing must not be wider than the width of the rear tyres.
- No part of the chassis may protrude from under the body (except for the wings or where the body does not cover the motor section of the rear chassis).
- No part of the chassis may be wider than the widest part of the body.
- The car must be safe for marshals to handle with no sharp edges.
- The front wing must be made of plastic, lexan or similar pliable material so that it will not cause injury should the car hit a person.
- Roll over posts are not allowed and nothing must extend above the body except for an aerial.
- The bottom of the chassis must be smooth and must not damage the racing surface or track barriers should it touch them.
- Minimum ride height is 4mm.
- Dampers (shock absorbers) are allowed for any wheel but must fit wholly under the body and may not be visible when the body is on the car (unless they were visible on the real world F1 car on which the design is based).
- The front arm pivot points (where the front arms attach to the chassis) must be within the body.
- Length (measured from the front edge of the front wing to the rear edge of the rear wing) must be between 400mm - 440mm.
- Height from the ground to the highest part of the model (body shell or rear wing) may not exceed 130mm.
- Maximum width - refer to Rule 5 in the main rules.
- The car ready to run may not weigh more than 1,600 grams. Minimum weight refer to Rule 6 in the main rules.
- Custom made wheels / tyres are not allowed.

Compliance with the above rules does not automatically allow the car to compete at club level or at events that run the National F1 Rules, approval must be given. There is no automatic right to run a Custom Chassis.

Approval should always be sought from the club where you wish to race. If you wish to build and race a chassis at more than one club then also contact RC Formula1 and we can review your design and if we feel it meets the spirit and letter of the rules then we will provide you with a letter stating this which you can show to the club at which you wish to race. We recommend opening discussions before starting work.

This rule is designed for enthusiasts who wish to make their own parts for the fun of the build. It is not meant for those seeking an edge over the competition.

I decided to put some time into the above to make the rules as clear as practical. I'm sure I've missed some things. The guiding principles are that the car must be on a custom made chassis, it must have a scale appearance, it must not be more of a danger to people or the track than a commercially purchased F1 car.

Because this is an area that might be manipulated by the unscrupulous, and because some clubs may have concerns with this area, I've left in the section that cars must be approved. This is unlikely to be an issue for the modeller who is genuinely looking to build something unique and fun but will hopefully discourage those looking to gain a competitive advantage. I've worded it so that the modeller can custom make every part on the car if they wish except for the wheels / tyres.

Feedback please.

RCformula1

We must have been typing at the same time Daniel Thanks for your suggestions, they stimulated the grey matter. Look forward to your thoughts. Cheers

aussierevo

iTrader: (14)

doing a great job David, appreciate the effort.

james g

iTrader: (18)

The proposed rule about dampers being able to be fitted to any wheel but must fit under the body is at odd's with the 3 Racing 113 with its very old fashioned lay down front shocks. Your thoughts please
James

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iTrader: (2)

This is far more detailed than I expected. It might take me a while to digest some of it. Mostly it looks pretty good. A couple of things leapt out at me though:

"- No part of the chassis may protrude from under the body (except for the wings or where the body does not cover the motor section of the rear chassis)."

The "motor section" is a bit ambiguous. And if someone builds a car like the FGX parts of the rear suspension, etc. may be exposed. This is why I basically split the car into the section in front of the side-pods and rearward of them.

"- All pieces of the chassis including main chassis, top deck and rear pod must be custom made (because these rules are for modellers and not for racers trying to simply merge the best bits of various commercial chassis)."

I think it's a little much to require the pod be custom made as well. Many people have interesting ideas they want to try out scratch building a pan car, but doing a pod is an awful lot of work (I know I've been doing it for the last 6 months with a custom 12th) – machining aluminium pod parts is beyond most people. Most of the really interesting designs involve the front end, and if you look at most of the conversion kits on the market for specialised cars they often make use of the pod of an existing car.

If you just mean the plate the pod sits on then "pod plate" would be better. Requiring that won't really accomplish anything though, as most people will just end up directly copying the plate off the pod they want to use.

"- Minimum ride height is 4mm."

You're better off imposing the minimum ride height on all the cars rather than just scratch builts. Pretty much any car could be lowered so that it is on the deck and do damage to carpet.

RCformula1

Thanks mate. I appreciate the encouragement

Hi James. The Custom Chassis Rules are more restrictive than the main rules. Your F113 is legal, and will continue to be legal, under the main rules. But someone custom making their own chassis won't be able to put F113 front shocks on their front arms (unless they are replicating a real world F1 car that has that feature - some 1950's / 60's designs had this I believe). They also won't be able to use a Top Rebel R-F01 front end because it's mounting points are outside the body. There are probably other similar examples. The rationale being that modellers are more likely to be interested in scale detail and by providing guidelines in this manner means the end result will hopefully resemble an F1 car. Fingers crossed Cheers

Agreed. But I wasn't sure what your wording meant. Your wording has the potential to be better though. Perhaps you could have another look at the wording you proposed and see if you can make it clearer?

Agreed. The intention was just the "pod plate" and I'll amend the wording. They may well just copy a commercial one but I think making all sections of the chassis themselves is fundamental to having a "Custom Chassis".

The thinking here was to simply protect against the unknown. Someone might build their chassis out of aluminium or steel and potentially damage any track, carpet or not. As you suggested initially, the Custom Chassis rules are more restrictive than the main F1 rules.

Thanks for the prompt feedback. Cheers

Test Driver

iTrader: (10)

As someone who is / has been looking at building a custom f1, i don't agree with not allowing dampers be seen with the body on.

For one, the 50-60's cars didn't have wings and therefore would be pointless building one of them to race against modern commercial cars as they just couldn't compete and two, all it is doing is making the design over complicated which makes it not viable also.

I do agree that the suspension mounting points be inside the bodywork or at least as close to it as possible like the f113. I however do not agree with front ends like the top rebel has but that is just a personal view. Some people like them.

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iTrader: (2)

I'll see what I can do about improving the wording around the side-pods and chassis dimensions, perhaps a diagram will help.

With regard to the ride height, there are few things that slice into carpet more effectively than carbon graphite; aluminium or steel would not be worse. Every serious onroad racing class has a rule that goes something like "when racing on carpet or a surface that may be damaged the minimum ride height is..." For 12th this is 3 mm. (Touring Car actually has a 5 mm minimum ride height in all conditions.) This is because commercially available cars run too low can and do damage carpet. A scratch built couldn't be worse than a normal car run too low, or that has a screw of the wrong type sticking out lower than the chassis below a suitable minimum.

What I suggest is an optional event rule for minimum ride height. Let the track operators decide whether the minimum ride height applies to their surface. This is what is done for other classes.

RogerDaShrubber

iTrader: (6)

My science degree was in environmental science and geology, not electrical engineering, so designing a one off machine that can test an esc in 30 seconds is out of my range of abilities

RCformula1

Thanks for the feedback.

It's prompted me to add a "guiding principle" to the start of the custom chassis rules to aid in clarity of purpose and to assist discussions such as this one.

"Guiding principle - all custom chassis builds must be based on the scale dimensions and appearance of a real world F1 car including body, wings and all visible components. It is recognised that there may be some compromises necessary because it is a model RC car and those compromises are likely to be similar to those present on many commercial model RC F1 cars (for example that the spur gear and pinion is visible)."


So if you want dampers visible then you need to build an F1 car that had them visible on the real version, otherwise they must go under the shell or a more traditional F1 damping system must be used.

In terms of complexity - an oil filled damper with spring is more complex than most RC F1 damping systems such as the small springs on the kingpin of an F104 or the flexible arms used on a Yokomo.

Also I suggest modifying the proposed 3rd bullet point as highlighted below:

"- Any parts for any commercially available F1 car may be attached to the custom chassis. You may also custom make any or all parts except where these rules state otherwise. Commercial parts not manufactured for F1 chassis are not allowed unless a suitable part is not made for an F1 car in which case a commercial part for a non-F1 car may be used (keep a list of any such parts as they must be disclosed when seeking approval for the custom chassis)."

This will mean that if you don't feel the lay down FGX front shocks are suitable, or they don't fit your design, then you may use lay down front shocks from another RC model but when you seek club approval you must disclose the use of this part. RC Formula1 would not have an issue with this particular substitution when considering the chassis for approval.

RCformula1

G. Rubber Tyres

After considering all the feedback, and after various offline discussions, I propose to NOT change the current rule on tyres and that Rubber or Foam would continue to be legal.

However, one purpose of the national rules is to provide clubs guidance. To this end I propose to add the following highlighted text to the end of the existing rule.

2. Tyres - Rubber or Foam F1 tyres. No wheels or tyres manufactured for a class other than F1 may be used unless the manufacturer lists it as the primary wheel/tyre for that chassis eg; Corally. Rubber tyres are recommended, however, it is recognised that foam tyres are more practical for some surfaces including; carpet tracks that do not use traction compound, astro turf and some other surfaces. It is recommended that a track specify either Rubber tyres, or Foam tyres, when running an event.

Gascar 24

iTrader: (15)

Hey guys
What the best traction additive for pits tyres on asphalt for my fgx

Cheers guys

RCformula1

Any final feedback before we draft the rules change proposal for clubs to vote on?

(I'll post the draft here for comment before sending it to clubs).

@Gascar24 - I've answered this question in the Oz F1 forum.

Mr Weasel

iTrader: (3)

Hello,

I kinda like how things are now with the rules on motors and esc's.

It's handy to be able to use any motor that is 21.5t coz it keeps it cheaper. Some online stores throw in a "weird brand" motors that is not on any list when you buy stuff and you can use it in your f1.

I am against regulating with lists etc.