Computer Problems
 

I'm not having a shot at anyone here, I know the guys who run major events work very hard and have a difficult task.

My point is that at several recent major events, computer problems have had a big impact.

I am not an expert in this field but I have to ask why it is such a problem to have a stable platform which can count laps accurately and do the necessary sorting of drivers for finals? I'm sure that that is all that is required and surely someone can come up with the software which is simple to use and has clear basic minimum requirements for the hardware required to run the program effectively.

Perhaps the current programs available have too many options and are too complex, I don't know.

I would be interested in other racers opinions.

normally one would expect the computer that a club uses week in week out at a club day should not have problems like we experienced on the weekend... maybe a different pc was used?

Allycat should also share some blame when combined with certain computers. Minor bugs lead to big problems.

ACT club did a great job recovering, pity problem was not picked up sooner.

Yes it is very frustrating that we spend thousands of dollars and countless hours of preparation to get our cars ready for these events, and the operation of those events are usually left to a prehistoric computer running an even more prehistoric program.

Why cant the clubs that put their hands up for these large events have up to date equipment and software. The revenue for just one large event would more than cover the cost of a new, not just secondhand PC, and the licence for a decent software.

Surely this is not too much to ask.:confused: :confused:

BK Please use the correct name for that program! :D

bugs in computers
 

Hi guys

Just to let you know that the Kambah club did buy a new laptop for the summer nats event. It was only used for electric, (experiencing problems) however the old computer was used for gas and they experienced no difficulties. I think the problems occurred because we received in excess of 140 entries! In regard to software, we have never experienced any problems in the past and it was our understanding that the new software has more bugs. I know that Eastern Creek use the new software and have had the odd hiccup!

You need to understand that running a big meet like this is very difficult and it is inevitable that hiccups will occur. Until you have been involved in running one you really shouldn't pass comment. You should be praising the few in Australia who make it possible for these events to occur!

Stephen Awizen

So what, the computer crashed, everyone got home late.

The event got completed, those that stayed watched 3 excellent races in both classes "A" finals & it didnt piss down on all of us all weekend.

Re: bugs in computers
 

If you read my post, I did say I appreciated the work put in by the organisers at the weekend but if was not just at Kambah. Tamworth and Wodonga were also beset by computer problems.

Some people are driving into the early hour of the morning after an early start and I think this is a major issue when a meeting is delayed foor hours, simply by computer glitches.

I would hate to see anyone injured or worse as a result of fatigue on a long drive.

I agree that the Sunday was a mess...:weird:

There was so much confusion... are we having 3 A finals or not ... are we have times saved from the 2 heats or it's gonna be all guns out for 1 heat ... then there was the sitting around endlessly to wait for the grid listing ... and when it was up .. I discovered that my name with a few others were left off.

I think that really capped the weekend off with the bad organisation ... the manual input for the final grid listing was finalised so no editing was allowed ... the only way i could race was for someone to drop out ... i didn't want to force anyone to do so .. so i withdrew from the a race i was not even listed for ,.. but it didn't mean i was not disappointed .. actually VERY disappointed .. did not drive 6 hours round trip , put up with annoying insects to be left off the finals...:flaming: :flaming: :flaming: :flaming: :flaming:

i really do hope such incidents do not occur again ... if there is an issue with the number of entries causing the computer to crash .. then limit the number of entries .. first come first serve ...

One major reason for erratic comp failures, and not just with timing software

Microsoft Windoze :lol:

I feel your pain, the finals work great to watch but this is because of the drivers not the organisers :nod:

For smaller clubs, ACT in particular, we don't get enough members to allow for us to constantly upgrade our PC's,

ACTMCRC has just bought AMBrc system and that took our club almost 2 years to get enough money to buy it, in this time we ran 2 state titles and still didn't have enough cash to buy the gear

for those who are disappointed that the race meeting had a few flaws in it why not donate some cash to the club instead of bitching about how this particular club can't afford the latest and greatest gear

This thread was not a rant about last weekend in particular. It is about the fact that these problems keep happening at major meetings.

If the software can't cope with the number of entries or won't run on the PC's that clubs have, can't we come up with something that will?

We should be able to run meetings without worrying when the computer is going to fry the event!

What do the yanks use for something like the Snowbirds etc, where they have up to 800 entries?

Looks like http://www.rcscoringpro.com/ is capable of running some pretty big meetings; they use this (by the looks of thier website) at most of the big meets around the USA.

Re: bugs in computers
 

just a note: EC has had only 1 glitch where 1 car finished a final early. EC uses SlyFox and it has been very reliable.

Allycrash let the Kambah and Tamworth clubs down in the past, both clubs have otherwise always ran very good meetings. Put SlyFox on the same pc's used on the weekend and i bet the same issues would not occur.

Re: Re: bugs in computers
 

Allycrash???...At Castle Hill Trevor runs the meet weekly with Alycat and I have not come across any problems with his software. Everything runs smoothly. (This system was used for all four Club challenges...no hicups)

There is the problem though, it always works flawlessly for club meets all over the country. But when a big meet comes up.. Bang.

Re: Re: Re: bugs in computers
 

From everyone i speak to who knows what they are doing with Alycrash say the program is reasonable if all the bells and whistles are turned off, and if the user is aware of things.

People like Trev know the program inside out so quite often are able to diagnose and correct the problem without the rest of us plebs noticing.

IMO the program should not be that complex that it requires this additional knowledge to operate.

Re: Re: Re: bugs in computers
 

TJ resolves the issues before it becomes a major problem and is very experienced at how not to cause issues. Ive ran meetings many times and seen what can happen, like an episode of Twighlight Zone lol.

Combine Allycat with a non conforming PC and u really get issues, proper testing needs to be done before any big meeting.

Its just like any program out there...

The simple ones work fine and don't let you do anything good. The complex ones allow any and everything to be configured and changed but also are prone to probs.

Its unlikely that you can get a program that is stable (especially in widoz) and has excellent options too.

cp probs
 

......

Would just like to say that the organisers who have or will have problems are not holding racers at ransom to make them leave late it is up to them...........


someone needs to design a program and cp to work yogether so probs do not incur.....
a
As to the event i left early on sunday as to 10 hour drive ,and would like to thank the guys at kambah for a top event......

Lets Bash A Product
 

[maybe the clubs should up the entry fees to all racers at all events so they can pay for the MEGA EXPENSIVE programs along with all the other expenses of keeping a club in existance.
Major race meetings, entry should be $70 to $100
Club meetings should be $20 to $40

I see you didn't read the whole post...

All four club challenge rounds!!!

I dont know how big one of those meets are, in Adelaide that would be 30 ppl..

In Sydney it was close to 100 entries for all rounds with regrade in the last and three A finals in all rounds plus TCS for the past 6 years with no problems. Castle Hill enduro for the past 9 years with last two years going over 4 hours of continues racing do I have to go on. Now stop product bashing and get back to the question that Mad Mackem started with.

here's my 2 cents

totally unfair to blame windows -- purely sloppy code or user error.



to execute the required code to run "competition RC software" in real time requires no more than a pentium200 - so there's no need for multi GHZ pc's either (but of course they're nice to have)

don't you guys get bored of having the same discussion after a major race meet?:weird: :confused: :rolleyes:

this is like a windows vrs linux discussion!

:) and there's nothing like a good linux v windows flame either might i say...

anyhoo - since i've been considered something of a computer enthusiast since about 1980.. the thread subject caught my attention immediately , considering it is posted on a RC forum.
Thus was prepared to offer opinions based on my own experiences..

I've run a large network of PC's for a number of years and i can only say fairly that 99.99% of the time when an application crashes , it's because of poor code or failing hardware..

security issues are a different matter though and thats why we have service packs I guess.

Trevor is right, this is not supposed to be about slagging products or people. Simply to discuss if there is a better, more reliable means of counting laps.

I do realise that certain people have more experience in running this software tahn others. If Trevor had these problems every Friday at Castle Hill, I for one would not have been racing there for so many years.

I guess my point is that the software should run itself and not require the presence of a "Guru" to keep the meeting on track.

Someone referred to the bells and whistles causing the problems. If that is the case, why have them? Do we really need different starting tones? Does the software heave to give the placings during the race? Do we need our names across the PA when we enter?

I know computers can be a pain in the backside but it seems that stuff ups are becomming the norm at major events when I believe they should be a rarity. If we just accept the fact that it will happen then things will not improve.

Most drivers on Sunday had 20 mins of racing and were at the track for 12 hours or more. I am sure this could be improved.

Its interesting what you say because I have seen other programs other than the one I use start to develop the same problems of delayed timing but only since upgraded versions have been installed, more bells and whistles as you say.
I am having problems with one of my computers at the moment due to ram, but before that it was running fine and had done of many years but it was due to I think the amount of space on the operating system hard drive which slowed the processing power. Even though the program was on an different hard drive it still effected it. I have reformated the whole computer hard drive and have only two partitions in it now. With the ram problems fixed ( I hope ) I will start testing the program to see if it misses any laps with the computer cleaned up. Will get back to you. I haven't change the program because there is nothing wrong with it the reason I know is that the same version is in the second computer and it has been running fine since TCS last year.

There are alternatives, as I mentioned previously

Sure Alycat can and does run resonable size meetings. But why, when clubs fork out reasonable amounts of cash, should anyone put up with the software when it has problems like at many major meetings over the past few months.

Doesnt the author provide any kind of support for the system?

I have setup an open-source project (on sourceforge.net) to build an rc scoring system, but it didnt get very far mainly because of lack of interested people at the time.. If any of you guys have the skill and the will, PM me and we can get something happening.

Im sure it wouldnt be impossible to make something less expensive and less restricted than Alycat which seems to be having so many problems of late..

As I have explained earlier, its not the program it's the computer or the nut behind the keyboard. One other thing if you don't know what you are doing with a program don't use it. Alycat has a very good back up service with contacts with the developer of the program, web site with chat area to talk about the program.
But as it has been already said in this forum it was not the program that was at fault on the weekend or at the other major events that have been brought into this decussion it was human error or computer problems.
We don't have to use a certain program, a gun is not at our to do so. So if you don't like it don't use it and then we can have fun at your expense when a meeting has a delay or laps are lost, due to computer problems.
I am not saying I am perfect, I do a lot of home work to be perfect but I know I have and will screw up.
Sh@t happens

I take your point Trev but surely, if these problems are related to the operator, then the program (or programs) itself must be too complex and not user friendly. The people who are running these events may not have as much experience as you but are also not novices. Something is wrong here.

I cannot talk about other programs but what happens when most clubs get Alycat there turn everything on in the setup. You can have basic lapscoring and you can go as far as you wish. But like I said most clubs turn everything on and then get confused and screw up. I have noticed in the new version 8.4 you can only access certain areas of the program to suit your level on knowledge and experience. You have to remember that look at todays programs and computer and say 5 years ago. Certain programs suited certain versions of windows just depends on what formate the program was built on. As I have lead to believe its the same with any lapscoring program if you use an old program then it should be kept in the old operating system and vise a versa. Steve Berges runs Slyfox very well and I hope I do the same with Alycat we are up to date with all parts of the program and have the best of all hardware and software.
I have seen meeting destroyed in both programs with clubs that weren't ready or had old systems, don't get me wrong it may be fine for club racing and that is well and good .
With the introduction of transponder and lapscoring programs it is easy to run a club compared to say ten or fifteen years ago . Most clubs in Sydney have some sort of system or program but if a club goes out and runs something that there don't know then you are asking for trouble there should start of with a basic program and build up other wise you end up crashing like you do in normal racing with putting a to powerful motor in a car that you can't control. I would hate to think of how many version of Alycat are a round and to that much Slyfox that were superseded because of newer versions of windows and newer computers.

I don't know what happened this weekend and I thank Bod for that, he and his club sorted out and did a great job to recover and processed with the meeting like he does with all the meeting I have enjoyed racing with him and will in the future. I know that MM is only trying help to come up with some formate to help stop it happening regardless of the hecklers and of what program is being used. It will happen things go wrong, we as race organizer try to get it right but sometimes its not the case.

I've shot my mouth off enough sorry for the bad grammar and spelling. See you at the track next time.

Trevor J

Problems
 

I have been the main person involved in our club on the Central Coast setting up Alycat, I would like to set a few things straight.

A) As for backup I have contacted the programmer on more occasions than I care to admitt, and in all that time he has given me all the help I needed without a complaint, he has even stopped by our track one time to see how it was going. He even spent several Friday nights at Castle Hill helping me.

B) All the bells and whistles are being placed on the program, because people are requesting them. And he is trying to please his customers.

C) I have had problems with the system which impacts then on the program, and I had not changed a thing. ITS CALLED A COMPUTER ELECTRICAL THAT CAN GO WRONG AT ANY TIME WITHOUT A WARNING.

I belong to a company that has spent in excess of 100 million on a system and it still does not work properly, the bosses no better and do not talk to the workers on what they need.

I am not saying there is not issues with Alycat but sometimes it is because of the operator and sometimes not, but with that I believe the programmer has done a dam good job and as one other person said put a lot of time ( having done a Basic Programming Course myself several years ago ) into developing this program not knowing if it would sell.

Instead of knocking people lets give the guy positive feedback so he can sort the problems out and make it better for everyone to use, and the most important part is to have fun I know as a driver it is frustrating waitng when there are problems how do you think the guys who are trying run the day feel.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

Have a good race days.
NR

It just makes me so warm and fuzzy seeing that no one read my post

and you seem so surprised!:lol:

Well know one listens to me either but i felt better after writing it.

Re: Lets Bash A Product
 

read it had a laugh, but ust how many people would turn up to race with entry fees that great?

did u say something?