what Michael is saying is that if you run 10.5 with 1C lipo it will produce very similar speed to current stock and hence you will have your stock class.

we are running 5 cell in offroad and onroad and everyone has just increased motor power to compensate for the voltage loss.

with 4 cell now used by some in offroad and a 5.5T brushless it produces the same speed as a 7.5T with 6 cell.

speed can come from a number of sources not just the voltage of the battery

My calculation was only meant as a 'back of the envelope' one. However it is reasonably representative of what is seen on the charger display and therefore what most people will be familiar with.

Thanks for your input Stumpy. I think the issue with cost, which you were alluding to, isn't so much the intrinsic cost of the batteries and motors we use so much as it is the rate that we are taking on new technology. Because we are so keen to use the very latest as soon as it is available the cost is higher than it would otherwise be. Manufacturers are still recouping their costs and our old equipment is becoming obsolete faster.

Yeah, I agree. I have some 3300s that I race competitively with on Club days. If you treat your equipment right then it will last a good while. Unfortunately, a 'good while' means until well after they have been superseded.

This is an interesting point that is being raised about the downgrading of the voltage for racing. i.e. going to 5 cells (or less) for all racing. This makes perfect sense for modified racing. The speed of motors and batteries long ago outstripped improvements to chassis design in every class except touring cars.

Spec classes are more problematic though. Not if everyone is using the same type of battery, if we all were all running LiPo, then 3.7V is probably a good idea, maybe even for Stock (but more likely for Super Stock as was pointed out) because as I noted earlier chassis development has been outstripped by motor and battery advances. This means it's harder for beginners to learn than it has been in the recent past. A reduction in Voltage could help us keep new racers.

However, we have a mixture of different batteries on the market at the moment, LiPo, NiMH, and other newer options have already been mentioned. If they can all be built so that they have the same output voltage by getting the number of cells right then, once again, no problem. However the voltage of a cell is a function of chemistry and different materials have different chemistry and that makes it tricky. We may have to rethink how we create a spec class in Electric racing. I can envision a future where we all have to buy a cheap black box voltage limiter. Something that could be wired between the battery and any speed control. Then we could run whatever battery we wanted to.* That's not likely to happen for a while though. In the mean time regulators are going to have a struggle deciding what motor/battery combination should be the spec class this month (until that battery type is superseded by something else). Maybe they will try and create parity with other motor/battery combinations but that would be a complete nightmare.

* If anyone wants to make this I would be very interested.

What you have said works fine for Modified, but how will that apply to stock..

I mean, after all, its the motor that makes it "stock class" not the battery..

We have parity issues now with 27 turn brushed and 13.5 turn Brushless motors now in stock, so you now want to add another battery / motor combo to the mix??

The only "FAIR" way to run 1x LiPo cell (instead of 4x "sub C" cells) in 1/12 scale racing, is to create a separate class..

dont see your logic mate.

you all dont run the same stock motor? there are different brands....

my point is if you want to solve the dilemma of running 1C you just move the stock motor to a 13.5 or a 10.5.

no issue in 4 cell racing then.

yes I am looking over the horizon to the end of next year when no one in china is producing Nimh cells thoough.

but thats something the 1/12 guys can deal with then :)

the chinese will be quickly retooling up for lipo production on mass!

I think the question Stumpy is asking is what do you do in the tween time when you have both NiMH and LiPo in common use? Figuring out exactly which motor you should be allowed to run with each battery type is difficult.

I thought that he is asking when are the limits of what we are doing going to peak and plateau for eternity!:confused:

thats something similar to telling me next weeks powerball numbers :)

If anyone does know next week's winning Power Ball numbers could they PM me.

i work in a newsagent the numbers are 3,5,24,37,40 and the power ball 22

good luck lol

Batteries and technology are progressing so fast we will be running 5200 in no time

Realistically, IMO we passed that majic number a long time ago.
I'm oldschoo, so I came from way back when we were getting by with 1200s. Now back then there was a lot of concern about getting your packs to last, and we all did things (tuning, motor winds, driving style, matched packs) to get to the end of runs. Miraculously most of us did most of the time, though there was quite of bit of drop off for the last half of your race. Then 1700s came along... and off to the races with evergrowing numbers - and now we're at 4600s and it's accomplished nothing IMHO other than leave people in search of larger powerplants to run their cars. And personally, to an extent, I find today's cars no faster than they were back in the day - just able to do so for a longer period.
All I do see is lower motor winds to get the power out of today's packs, and nobody dumping at the end of their runs (if they started with a full pack).


I knew you were going there.
The biggest issue I have and see with this presumption is that way back in the day race length was primarily determined around pack runtime and motors getting hot from running at high speeds for too long a period. Since technology has cured the runtime dilemna with the large capacity batteries, and while brushless systems do run cooler than their brushed counterparts, unless someone comes up with some really weird way of liquid or nitrogen cooling electric motors (I'm only using those as examples) the simple truth is that theorizing longer races is still only going to result in killing motors that aren't designed to run for prolonged periods of time - sans totally redesigning the current formula of motor allowances (540 can limit) which will result in the need to redesign all cars to accept larger powerplants.

And thus you get into a whole slippery slope of where does it stop???....

orion already have a 5300 mah sho cell i have no idea were to get it but it is on the web site..........

5 cell modified or lipo whats your opinion
 

just out of curiosity what do people think will happen with modified onroad i was talking to a mate who went to the preworlds and competed he was saying they were still running 6 cell here in australia we went to five cell to slow the cars down we just went to a faster motor i just want to know do people think we will go to lipo in modified or stay with 5 cell...

cheers
m.stone

totally agree i get new packs for ever race meet i go to

Do you think that applies just to Modified or to the spec classes as well?

I routinely run in practice for between 8 and 10 minutes with my race set-up and my motor (4wd Stock) is still just as good as it was 2 and a half years ago when it was new. Of course, I gear sensibly and the motor gets trued every 4 meetings or so.

If you are saying we can't run 10 minute races you may have an argument. If you are saying we can't run 6 or 7 then I completely disagree (even for modified). Do you remember when drivers used to get their car put directly on the grid with no warm up lap? It doesn't happen any more. It is the most common thing now to see people doing 2 practice laps before the start of a race. At most tracks that amounts to 45 seconds. If the race happens to be the last one of the day, these same drivers will continue after the buzzer goes just for fun. Nobody is concerned with burning a motor. Maybe you will have to gear down a tooth on your pinion for 7 minutes but I doubt it.

A few years back now I was part of a team that competed in a 3 hour enduro at Castle Hill offroad. The rules were, 1 car, 1 radio for the full 3 hours. We ran the one motor all day and won the race. Multiple battery changes of course (that was my job I practised for 2 hours the night before). It badly needed truing at the end but we still used it after that. Let me reiterate: 3 hours! If you want a motor to be good for a longer race then it's doable.