im telling him to use a temp gun because if he is a newbie at it, if he relies on touching the heatsink to determine temp he really won't know if it is being done correctly or not. anything above 60 c feels pritty fricken hot, a temp gun will confirm if you have to go hotter or not. like i said, 80 minimum to 100 degrees. if he's a newb he'll touch it at 60 and think, yep it's ok, when infact its too cool.

anyway the only diff between inferno and my method is pritty much the first tank.

and i heard this:

There is no need to worry about what the engine temp is since that is dependent on so many variables it is not even worth discussing in a break-in or tuning article

personally , like i said above, i like to keep track of temp when i do the first 2 or so tanks when i am bliping it, slow driving it(as it is vital to get heat into it but not crazy hot) once i have done this, and i am driving it harder, i am not concerned with temp, i tune it and pay attention to smoke, how it exits from idle etc.

For a break in procedure ask massive mods he knows it all.Also ask how many people haven't listened to him and blown their engines lol.Good people to talk to are from Newcastle and sma who swear they will always use his services because he is in the league of Jp.

keep up the good work massive your doing well.

actually maybe your not being sarcastic. sorry dude anyway. run massive fuel. it works ...well i can only vouch for buggy fuel personally not 1 flame out with massive buggy fuel on my first race day with my buggy

I run in all my engines with this heat cycling method.

1 tank on low idle and then i drive the car around the track with a rich tune for a couple of tanks then i start to lean it a little after evry tank.

my engines last for ages i had a os tr last for almost 2 years!

oh and i use massive mods fuel its awesome and now i run a massve modified tz that runs hard!

Thanks Mark!

...wow...

and thats why I run electric!

I (without knowing it at the time) ran my Novarossi engine's in the way that mark from MASSIVE MODS recomends and I've been runing them since 2003 and I have just sent them to mark to be modified as they are still running with out flame outs. You only have to have a quick conversation with mark and you know he knows what he is talking about just by the way he explanes things. It's your call dude on how you run your engines in but I think in my opinion that expiriance and reputation talk for them self's!!!!!

i gotta say although ur right about variables, the heat needed to heat cycle and engine will always be the same as most high performance engines are abc or aac so to heat cucle them you will need so much heat which means a temp will be needed.
im 17 so i could be wrong but i understand when u heat treat metal as long as its the same metal (like most engines are) then the same heat is needed.
i come from junior drag racing where we have the option of exhaust temps and let me tell u head (at the glow plug) arnt visible enough to be a tuning gauge an exhaust temp will tell u the richness or leaness of an engine so i think every one is temping the wrong end but u cant really temp and exhaust in an rc car so thats life.
ull be interested that head temps are similar with my drag car (bout 250's farenheight at idle) and thats 750's f at exhaust and a change of 60's can loose .11 of a second over 1/8th mile. so u see why exhaust would be better? and it can be done (30 gram sensor)
most 'americans' say u need 200's farenhight before u turn the engine over other wise the friction can ruin the piston and sleve so i think that makes more sense than worrying about 10's celcius running temp.
im saying this from my understanding of metal and heat transfer and also racing back ground i have only ever owned one nitro cr and i wore the engine out in 2 litres (air cleaner came off).

ok, so does this sound right for heat cycling break in?

MM, do you agree with this?

here is what i plan to do:

slightly richen mixture

run engine for 3min at slow speed and let fully cool down with piston on bottom of case. repeat this until 15min of run time has passed.

run engine for 4min at slow to medium speed and let fully cool down with piston on bottom of case. repeat this until 25min of run time has passed.

then onto track tuning and just leaning it out slowly bit by bit and if the engine hesitates turn back needle 1/4 and continue leaning until it runs good.

also do i do the break in using straight up 25% nitro fuel or break in fuel at 5% nitro content?

i used this method for my first nitro engine with no probs but now i always open up the engine inspect and flush out before starting the break in

Engine Tuning - New Engines
How to Break In your New Engine, by Ron Paris

IT’S ALL IN THE CARB

Everything that’s needed to ensure your engine’s long life is contained in its carburetor. Most carbs have three adjustments that you’ll need to familiarize yourself with: The first, and most important, is the high-speed needle setting. This needle valve controls the mixture of fuel and air that enters the engine’s combustion chamber during high-rpm running. More fuel in this mixture causes a “rich” condition, while less fuel (more air) causes a “lean” condition. A richer high-speed needle setting will actually help keep the engine running cooler as it reduces rpm, and because there is more fuel passing through the combustion chamber, a bit of “liquid cooling” actually takes place. A leaner setting will allow the engine to achieve higher rpm, but will also cause it to run hotter.
A properly set high-speed needle will provide a compromise between a cool temperature and high rpm. Needless to say extremes in either direction aren’t good, but nobody ever blew up their engine by running it too rich!

Many racing engines also have a secondary needle-valve adjustment that is used to control the engine’s low-speed fuel/air mixture. This needle is used to adjust the way the engine makes the transition from low to high rpm. It also helps control the fuel mixture when the engine is idling. A low-speed needle setting that is rich will reduce throttle response at low rpm, and may make the car sluggish coming out of tight turns. A leaner setting will allow the engine to make more power during low rpm operation.

Many modern sport-type nitro engines have eliminated the low-speed needle entirely. While this doesn’t allow for the highest level of tuning for the experience racer, having one fewer needle to fuss with does make these engines much more user-friendly to the beginner, who only need set the high-speed needle.

Finally, there’s the idle-stop screw. Basically, this screw is used to keep the carb’s slide or barrel from becoming totally closed (which would stop the engine from running). A small opening of the carb allows just enough air and fuel to mix and keep the engine running. Setting the idle is usually done after you’ve properly set both the high- and low-speed needles.

WHERE TO BEGIN?

Before you even place your nitro car on a starter box or yank its pull-starter, read the instruction manual that came with your engine or car kit. Most nitro kits’ manuals have a section that will tell you approximately where the carburetor’s needle settings should be for initial start up. We have found that higher-end (more expensive) engines tend to follow the instruction’s settings more closely, which means that when the manual says to set the high-end needle at three turns out from closed, this is almost exactly where the engine will run best for break-in.

For sport-type engines, the needle position that allows the engine to fire and run may be quite different from what’s recommended in the manual. In our experience, if a sport engine won’t fire, leaning the high-speed needle in small increments will get it going. Once the engine fires and runs consistently, we will usually richen the needle back to where the instructions recommend. Never run a new engine, or even an older one, too lean!

YOUR NEW ENGINE’S FIRST RUN

We know that you want to go out and do some hot laps the instant your new engine fires to life, but don’t! The first few runs of your new engine are critical. Once your engine starts, place the car on a stand so that its wheels can’t touch the ground. Let the engine idle at low rpm for a few minutes (two or three minutes will do), then shut the engine down and let it cool.

During this procedure, it’s also important that the piston not be at the top of the cylinder while the engine is cooling. Part of what’s taking place during break-in is that the engine’s mating parts are being heat-cycled. They’re expanding when the engine is hot and contracting when it cools. Heat cycling stabilizes the metal and allows mating parts to fit better against each other. Keeping the piston out of the upper portion of the cylinder (which is smaller in diameter than the lower portion in order to create a better seal during combustion) will allow the cylinder to properly contract as it cools—without interference from the piston. To figure out where the piston is in relation to the cylinder, just turn the flywheel. It will become difficult to turn when the piston is at the top of the cylinder, where the fit between the piston and cylinder is its tightest. Just turn the flywheel until the piston is in the middle of its “easy turning” part.

Now you’re ready to lay down some horsepower, right? Wrong! Repeat the above steps three or four more times.

YES, YOU CAN DRIVE IT NOW

After you’ve heat-cycled your engine, you can finally put it on the track. But don’t get too excited yet. You must run it with a very rich high-speed needle setting. Some engine experts recommend that, during break-in, the engine be set rich enough so that it will actually four-cycle instead of two (our nitro engines are two-cycle, which means that the fuel/air mixture is ignited once for every two strokes of the piston). Four cycling means that the engine is actually only firing one time for every four strokes of the piston. In this condition, all of the unburned fuel passing through the combustion chamber takes heat (and any tiny metal particles created during the breaking-in process) right out to the exhaust pipe!

Do you really need to run the engine this rich? Well, the experts know their stuff, but we have broken in dozens of new engines without actually allowing them to four stroke. Whether or not you four-stroke your engine during break-in is entirely up to you—just make absolutely certain that the high-speed needle is set very rich: lots of blue smoke should be coming from the exhaust, and the engine should sound “blubbery.”

During this procedure, it’s vital that you avoid prolonged use of full throttle, which could strain the engine. You should instead “blip” the throttle as you drive the car to avoid spending too much time in one particular rpm range.

Run the engine using these settings for three or four tank-fulls of fuel, allowing the engine to cool in between runs.

NOW COMES THE GOOD PART!

Once you’ve put about six to eight tanks of fuel through the engine (as outlined above), it’s time to begin leaning the high-speed needle and making some power! Begin by leaning the high-speed needle (by turning it inward, or clockwise) by about one-hour (if you imagine the needle as a clock-face, one full turn of the needle would equal 12 hours). Run the car for a minute or so, then bring it back in and lean the needle by another one hour increment. Repeat this process until the engine begins to achieve good rpm, but it shouldn’t be allowed to “scream” quite yet. The engine should still be creating lots of blue smoke from its exhaust.

Before you achieve that screaming race setting, we recommend that you run your engine for a few more tank-fulls in this “almost race” setting. Once you get the needle set to where your engine is making good rpm, richen it (by turning the needle counter-clockwise) by about a quarter of a turn. This is your final setting.

THE FINAL STEPS

Once you’ve found a good setting for the high-speed needle that allows the engine to make good power yet still push plenty of blue smoke from the exhaust (especially when the car exits a turn), it’s time to set the low-end needle and the idle-stop screw.

Most engine manufacturers recommend a specific setting for the idle-stop screw, and they’re usually well within the ballpark. For now, set the idle-stop screw so that the engine will idle at a moderate rpm without stalling.

Bring the engine up to operating temperature by driving it for a few minutes. Now stop the car and listen to the engine’s idle speed. If the engine idles fast but then slows down in just a few seconds, the low-speed needle is probably set too rich. Lean the low-speed needle (by turning it clockwise in one-hour increments) until, after running a few more laps, the idle stays high for about twenty seconds or so when you stop the car. Once you’ve done this, use the idle-stop screw to make the final adjustment of the idle speed.

For sport engines which lack a low-speed needle, the idle-stop screw is the only method of adjusting the engine’s idle speed. For these engines, simply turn the idle-screw clockwise to increase idle speed, and counterclockwise to reduce the idle speed.

Setting your engine’s idle speed isn’t a contest to see how low you can get it without stalling the engine! Your goal when setting the idle should be to allow the engine to run at moderate rpm without the clutch being engaged whatsoever. Your car should be able to sit at a standstill when idling. If you have to hold the brake, the idle is too high. If you have to blip the throttle to prevent stalling the engine, the idle is too low.

ENJOY YOUR NEW ENGINE!

Nitro powered R/C vehicles can be tons of fun, or they can cause tons of frustration. The difference between success or failure lies with the break-in process. If you follow these steps, have patience, and use your noggin, you’re assured of success. Rushing through the break-in procedure or worse, forgetting it altogether, is a recipe for disaster.

TUNING

Tuning your engine is the hardest part of nitro racing. But once you’ve learned how the carburetor works, and which screw does what, it will all become second nature. So when you’re running your car, you’ll always know exactly what to adjust to gain the highest level of performance possible.

THE FOUR RULES OF ENGINE TUNING

1. Rich is good. Blue smoke should always be coming from the exhaust.

2. Always set the high-speed needle first

3. Never try to tune a cold engine—wait for it to get up to operating temperature.

4. Always begin your engine tuning from a rich high-speed needle setting. Never start out with a lean setting.

My advice is dont listen to anyone in Australia or anywhere else for a break in procedure .Send an email to the Manufacturer of the engine and im sure they will give you a break in procedure that is suitable for their product .

Dont forget not all engines are made from the same materials some are cheap and some are expensive .

Example RB,Sirio,Os,Novarossi,Grp im sure they will all be able to help you and they might even have a procedure on their Website.

This is the best way direct to Manufacturer and forget the rest everyone has a different opinion and they are all probably wrong .

Or ask Factory sponsored drivers and mechanics who are part of the factory that are specialists like lomberto collari he has a website and a proper break in procedure im sure .

Dont be fooled by the Australian or Overseas Amatuars Who think they know it all as your engine wont last long

In Response to Pro Racer

Hey guys i havent had time to read all the posts including Ron's break in which im sure is great god bless him !

So ill just answer with the way i recommend , if ive repeated info already said i apologise

Ok

Clean flush the motor
Fuel up with same fuel you intend to run on
Pre heat engine with hair dryer to loosten up ( tight motors need this)
Start and very quickly tune HSN to clean 2 stroke , not rich not lean just nice
Put it on the ground on hi traction surface and run the thing around up to half throttle, Cool BDC and repeat for say 4 to 5 tanks depending on the situation

By the 5th tank it will have done some 750,000 revolutions , its ready to to go hard .

Ok reason it has to be hot ? So the sleeve expands to operating temp, this relieves the piston of smashing into an un expanded sleeve and linishing its self. Its not heat cycling like in lapped iron engines that need to be conditioned, it does help settle the motor but with the materials used one hot run will do this, the repeated heat cycling is purely to condition the motor to its desired operating temps. Running in an engine cool will create a certain tolerance fit between the piston and sleeve, the problem is when you go to lean on it and it gets hot the sleeve now expands further and can create loss of power and blow by.. Not to mention TDC notch.

Second thing , take your temp gun , remove the battery and throw the little F$#KKER in the ocean . Learn to use your ears , they will tell you much more of whats going on with your donk ( engine)

Now whatever the engine likes to run at thats the temp its happy with.. There are too many variables from situation to situation to recommend a temp or a needle setting. Things that will change this are fuel type, pipe, tank, pressure line, tyres, body etc etc

So i hope this helps guys

Cheers MM

PS one thing i forgot to mention, depending on how tight the motor is new the engine might take a few litres to come into its own. anywhere from 2 to 5 litres , you will know because it will start to pick up in performance and acceleration. Temps during run in will go all over the shop, thats why you dont need to use a temp gun, it will confuse you .