The Hill Camp Courtney RC Park Okinawa Japan
01-20-2010, 11:51 PM
#91
Tech Addict
I will leave my opinions on the triple to myself, I think the track turned out great and is a fantastic place to run.
But I offer a challenge, I will give you 2 warmup laps and anyone that can hit the downside of the triple 3 out of 4 times I will buy a steak dinner. The DOWNSIDE not on the flat.
The triple can be done, I did it several times on Monday, but very difficult to do on a consistant basis. The risk is greater than the reward. When picking a line for a race those are things to consider, Ive made my decision.........and I found tires that worked but I'm not sharing
But I offer a challenge, I will give you 2 warmup laps and anyone that can hit the downside of the triple 3 out of 4 times I will buy a steak dinner. The DOWNSIDE not on the flat.
The triple can be done, I did it several times on Monday, but very difficult to do on a consistant basis. The risk is greater than the reward. When picking a line for a race those are things to consider, Ive made my decision.........and I found tires that worked but I'm not sharing
...and like I said before, it's no problem if you guys want to change the tripple. All I ask is that whatever you and Jon change it to (I've seen your opinions too Jon), is to still keep it challenging. No one wants a widow-maker, but I believe Ken you also stated early on that not everyone should be able to clear the tripple everytime either...it's something you have to decide on the fly. You did say that, no?
And Josh, I wasn't taking jabs about anyone's skill level. Heck, I'm sure I'll case the tripple quite often too...and I haven't even driven it yet.
I guess I just expect 8th scale buggies to demand more of their operator, which is why I got one in the first place (for the challenge), so I hope the track is not too easy when it's all said and done.
In the end, I'm good with whatever you guys decide...
- Paulie
Last edited by pgeldz; 01-21-2010 at 12:56 AM.
01-21-2010, 01:02 AM
#92
Paulie, there is only one p in trippple.
And now the premeire jump is a single/double....
Jason, it doesn't matter what tires Ken was running, you don't have a 1/8 buggy (yet)
I'm in with Ken on the steak dinner, I'll throw in a case of the drivers favorite beer or soda. 3 outta 4 on the downside (that's a 75%, which is a C, which is an average driver)
We had 10 buggies race on opening day, only 7 finished...not good...still a C...
Since Paulie's snoopin around on the Caster Forum, maybe he learned something...
A driver should be able to make the decision, but the track shouldn't be able to damage the car no matter how it's driven.
And now the premeire jump is a single/double....Jason, it doesn't matter what tires Ken was running, you don't have a 1/8 buggy (yet)
I'm in with Ken on the steak dinner, I'll throw in a case of the drivers favorite beer or soda. 3 outta 4 on the downside (that's a 75%, which is a C, which is an average driver)
We had 10 buggies race on opening day, only 7 finished...not good...still a C...
Since Paulie's snoopin around on the Caster Forum, maybe he learned something...
A driver should be able to make the decision, but the track shouldn't be able to damage the car no matter how it's driven.
01-21-2010, 01:20 AM
#93
Tech Addict
My bad, I did tell ya I just had eye surgery right? LOL!
While I somewhat agree with this statement Jon, it's not the track that damages the car, it's the driver. What about the driver who brings his (insert stupidly overpowered r/c car here) to the kiddie track and overshoots a corner and plows into the rock crawling course and breaks something? You consider the kiddie track safe right?
My point is that no matter how safe you build it, there will always be someone who thinks they can go faster, jump higher, etc., and end up breaking something in the process.
If you build it so it presents no challenge, than folks will then just try and go faster, and when they do get out of shape they'll be going so fast they'll break harder. If you build it with some challenge to slow them down, and they show no restraint and go fast anyway, they'll break yet again.
That's whay I say it's the operator that breaks cars, not the track layout.
Either way, it may have been my design that ya'll voted on, but in the end it's OUR track, so please do as you wish. Seriously, I'm good with whatever you guys decide...
- Paulie
My point is that no matter how safe you build it, there will always be someone who thinks they can go faster, jump higher, etc., and end up breaking something in the process.
If you build it so it presents no challenge, than folks will then just try and go faster, and when they do get out of shape they'll be going so fast they'll break harder. If you build it with some challenge to slow them down, and they show no restraint and go fast anyway, they'll break yet again.
That's whay I say it's the operator that breaks cars, not the track layout.
Either way, it may have been my design that ya'll voted on, but in the end it's OUR track, so please do as you wish. Seriously, I'm good with whatever you guys decide...
- Paulie
01-21-2010, 01:37 AM
#95
To set the record straight.....and I quote from another forum
"My question, do I set up to absorb the jump and sacrafice on the technical section or just avoid the triple and do it as a double single"
When you get ready to race a track for the first time you put in your practice laps. This is when you decide how you get around the track fast and consistant, there is the challenge. The jumps can be setup as easy or difficult as you want, if there is a section that gets big air it alone will seperate the men and the boyz. Speed is only a small part of having your buggy set to jump, shocks springs, fluid, ride height and even tire balance factor into how well a car can jump. If it's not set right it won't do well no matter how the jump is arranged.
I will run whatever is there an adjust as needed, when I practice and cannot make a jump 80% of the time(20% is my bad) I find another way to run that section.
Ok, I do have an opinion, I don't care if the jump gets changed at all, I am content to find another way thru. I am not a skilled enough driver to hit the downside and will not abuse the buggy by landing flat.
Anybody going out Sunday?
"My question, do I set up to absorb the jump and sacrafice on the technical section or just avoid the triple and do it as a double single"
When you get ready to race a track for the first time you put in your practice laps. This is when you decide how you get around the track fast and consistant, there is the challenge. The jumps can be setup as easy or difficult as you want, if there is a section that gets big air it alone will seperate the men and the boyz. Speed is only a small part of having your buggy set to jump, shocks springs, fluid, ride height and even tire balance factor into how well a car can jump. If it's not set right it won't do well no matter how the jump is arranged.
I will run whatever is there an adjust as needed, when I practice and cannot make a jump 80% of the time(20% is my bad) I find another way to run that section.
Ok, I do have an opinion, I don't care if the jump gets changed at all, I am content to find another way thru. I am not a skilled enough driver to hit the downside and will not abuse the buggy by landing flat.
Anybody going out Sunday?
01-21-2010, 01:54 AM
#96
May go out Sunday, if we get more rain I'll try to get Mike out there. Look out for big rocks showing up on the 1/8.
I want to change the triple, but I'd be content to leave it until after summer and learn a fast and safer way to take it.
we're all here to give Paulie a hard time...otherwise there'd be no fun...
I want to change the triple, but I'd be content to leave it until after summer and learn a fast and safer way to take it.
we're all here to give Paulie a hard time...otherwise there'd be no fun...
01-21-2010, 02:20 AM
#97
+1 on giving Paulie a hard time......
01-21-2010, 02:54 AM
#98
Tamiya instructions are dumb..........I fix multi million $$ airpalnes, I can put this DB-01 together....
01-21-2010, 05:07 AM
#100
........got past the brain fart and it is down to shocks and electronics, and a day warm enough to paint.
Jason you running the 5700? If so what pinion and spur did you start with
Jason you running the 5700? If so what pinion and spur did you start with
01-21-2010, 06:01 AM
#101
May go out Sunday, if we get more rain I'll try to get Mike out there. Look out for big rocks showing up on the 1/8.
I want to change the triple, but I'd be content to leave it until after summer and learn a fast and safer way to take it.
we're all here to give Paulie a hard time...otherwise there'd be no fun...
I want to change the triple, but I'd be content to leave it until after summer and learn a fast and safer way to take it.
we're all here to give Paulie a hard time...otherwise there'd be no fun...
Out of the 10 people that did the exhibition my son was one of the people that broke, and it was completely his fault. It was all about being overly excited and trying NOT to do the triple.
Has anyone made any suspension changes to their vehicles yet for this track?
Jon, I hope you don't think you are going to "fix" the triple the same way you fixed it the last time. Making the landing longer and flatter is NOT a fix. Honestly, some good ideas could/should be given up before all the complaining. You can criticize all you want, but if you aren't going to offer up your own ideas, what good are you doing? It's a widow maker, is not an idea, it is a cop out. I'll be the first to admit it is not perfect, but I think it just needs some minor tweaking and little time learning the timing to be good. You guys do realise there was a decision made that basically said leave it until after the opening, because we ran out of time?
That triple is my favorite part of either track, just because I haven't quite figured it out yet.
Last edited by igyrigged; 01-21-2010 at 08:01 AM.
01-21-2010, 09:25 AM
#102
I"ll take my steak dinner medium rare, I'll give you your 3 out or 4 landings on the downside LOL. IMO the secret to the triple is gauging your speed and taking the same line everytime. For those who can't cleanly make the triple, you need to adjust your driving style. It's plain and simple. Otherwise it's a single double for you until you become a more confident driver. IMHO the track should not have to change for peoples driving, it's peoples driving that needs to change to meet the demands of the track. I don't have a problem with any part of the track, I'm just glad we have a track to run on. I find it funny that people are complaining about their driving difficulties, especially since there is no drivers stand to accurately drive from!
Jon I know what your problem is. You see those big words on the side of the caster boxes... made in china. LOL just kidding.
I'm not trying to start a brand war here, but you all know OFNA makes the best buggies
Jon I know what your problem is. You see those big words on the side of the caster boxes... made in china. LOL just kidding.
I'm not trying to start a brand war here, but you all know OFNA makes the best buggies
01-21-2010, 12:18 PM
#103
Tech Addict
I figured as such...just didn't want new readers thinking I'm some sort of elitest, knowing I haven't even set my buggy on the track yet, ha ha ha.
Yes, it started as a simple question, but later in the thread you did say "I tried to convince them it's a widow maker" and "the landing sucks".
And I'm ok with that. Seriously, I know everyone loves to give me a hard time (not really sure why, but I know it's entertaining for most of you for some reason, ha ha), but this isn't about me. It's about OUR track. If everyone has an issue with a particular section, then we should change it - I'm cool with that.
I think Jon was spot on with what he told me in an e-mail. There was just not enough dirt there on the 3rd jump to do what we wanted. Heck, we even dumped more dirt on it in the final days before the grand opening in the hopes of rounding out the top to get rid of the point, but it still needed a lot more. The descision was made that we were trying to do to much in too little time before the opening, and we needed to tackle other tasks, so that's exactly what happened, and we stopped working on it.
I agree with all of you guys that the triple needs some work, so lets not wait until after summer if we do in fact change it...lets come up with some good ideas and knock it out. I'll be down to help as soon as I return (next weekend).
On a different note, the DB01 and Tamiyas in general are a pain to build - I agree Ken. Not really from a parts not fitting together standpoint, but the fact that all the screws are in different bags.
Anyhoo, if you can, skip the stock diff halfs and the glue altogether, and just use the 501X diff halfs all around. The stock ones won't hold up for long with a 5700 anyway, even if they are glued.
I ran a 5700 when I first built my DB01, and a 15-17 pinion was the hot ticket. I'm currently using a 17 pinion with a Novak 7.5 and the motor never got above 132F. I have a 6.5 coming so we'll see what's what. The car was really, really good with the 7.5 though so I may end up leaving that in when the track is dusty, and changing to the 6.5 if the track is damp and has more traction.
I also have limiters in the rear shocks (one o-ring), as well as all the shocks are offset from their posts about 4 mm's. This makes the geometry much smoother but requires different parts to make the stand-offs work properly.
I have many spares, so if you want to try it I can give you the parts when I return. Currently using 35wt shock oil all around as well.
- Paulie
And I'm ok with that. Seriously, I know everyone loves to give me a hard time (not really sure why, but I know it's entertaining for most of you for some reason, ha ha), but this isn't about me. It's about OUR track. If everyone has an issue with a particular section, then we should change it - I'm cool with that.
I think Jon was spot on with what he told me in an e-mail. There was just not enough dirt there on the 3rd jump to do what we wanted. Heck, we even dumped more dirt on it in the final days before the grand opening in the hopes of rounding out the top to get rid of the point, but it still needed a lot more. The descision was made that we were trying to do to much in too little time before the opening, and we needed to tackle other tasks, so that's exactly what happened, and we stopped working on it.
I agree with all of you guys that the triple needs some work, so lets not wait until after summer if we do in fact change it...lets come up with some good ideas and knock it out. I'll be down to help as soon as I return (next weekend).
On a different note, the DB01 and Tamiyas in general are a pain to build - I agree Ken. Not really from a parts not fitting together standpoint, but the fact that all the screws are in different bags.
Anyhoo, if you can, skip the stock diff halfs and the glue altogether, and just use the 501X diff halfs all around. The stock ones won't hold up for long with a 5700 anyway, even if they are glued.
I ran a 5700 when I first built my DB01, and a 15-17 pinion was the hot ticket. I'm currently using a 17 pinion with a Novak 7.5 and the motor never got above 132F. I have a 6.5 coming so we'll see what's what. The car was really, really good with the 7.5 though so I may end up leaving that in when the track is dusty, and changing to the 6.5 if the track is damp and has more traction.
I also have limiters in the rear shocks (one o-ring), as well as all the shocks are offset from their posts about 4 mm's. This makes the geometry much smoother but requires different parts to make the stand-offs work properly.
I have many spares, so if you want to try it I can give you the parts when I return. Currently using 35wt shock oil all around as well.
- Paulie
Last edited by pgeldz; 01-21-2010 at 12:30 PM.
01-21-2010, 02:16 PM
#104
[QUOTE=igyrigged;6885339]
Has anyone made any suspension changes to their vehicles yet for this track?
Jon, I hope you don't think you are going to "fix" the triple the same way you fixed it the last time. Making the landing longer and flatter is NOT a fix. Honestly, some good ideas could/should be given up before all the complaining. You can criticize all you want, but if you aren't going to offer up your own ideas, what good are you doing? It's a widow maker, is not an idea, it is a cop out. I'll be the first to admit it is not perfect, but I think it just needs some minor tweaking and little time learning the timing to be good. You guys do realise there was a decision made that basically said leave it until after the opening, because we ran out of time?
QUOTE]
Making the landing longer and flatter? It's short and steep and then totally flat. I never got to drive it when it was "fixed" so I can't answer how it was. It needs major tweaking, not minor. More dirt.
OFNA=Ho Bao=Hong Nor=Chinese but under three different names, OFNA being the leftovers...
Yes, it started as a simple question, but later in the thread you did say "I tried to convince them it's a widow maker" and "the landing sucks".
I think Jon was spot on with what he told me in an e-mail. There was just not enough dirt there on the 3rd jump to do what we wanted. Heck, we even dumped more dirt on it in the final days before the grand opening in the hopes of rounding out the top to get rid of the point, but it still needed a lot more. The descision was made that we were trying to do to much in too little time before the opening, and we needed to tackle other tasks, so that's exactly what happened, and we stopped working on it.
- Paulie
Oh and Paulie, we changed the run up to the triple on Ethan's suggestion and your agreemenet in post 145 and 146 in the old thread:
I like the crossover design and Paulie's sketch. My vote is for Paulie's sketch, but there must be enough of a run up to clear the triple. Just my opinion.
I agree about the tripple. If we ended up going with that sketch design, I'd also like to move the tripple to the left a little to allow proper run up.
- Paulie
We had more dirt there and then it was reworked, I may have worked it wrong making it longer and flatter. We need more dirt on the first and the third, make them twice as tall as they are now.
watching other tracks on youtube, I have seen none that have a drastic jump that needs such a run up, let alone triples, the tracks seem to flow. The triple distrupts the fahrvernugen...
Has anyone made any suspension changes to their vehicles yet for this track?
Jon, I hope you don't think you are going to "fix" the triple the same way you fixed it the last time. Making the landing longer and flatter is NOT a fix. Honestly, some good ideas could/should be given up before all the complaining. You can criticize all you want, but if you aren't going to offer up your own ideas, what good are you doing? It's a widow maker, is not an idea, it is a cop out. I'll be the first to admit it is not perfect, but I think it just needs some minor tweaking and little time learning the timing to be good. You guys do realise there was a decision made that basically said leave it until after the opening, because we ran out of time?
QUOTE]
Making the landing longer and flatter? It's short and steep and then totally flat. I never got to drive it when it was "fixed" so I can't answer how it was. It needs major tweaking, not minor. More dirt.
Yes, it started as a simple question, but later in the thread you did say "I tried to convince them it's a widow maker" and "the landing sucks".
I think Jon was spot on with what he told me in an e-mail. There was just not enough dirt there on the 3rd jump to do what we wanted. Heck, we even dumped more dirt on it in the final days before the grand opening in the hopes of rounding out the top to get rid of the point, but it still needed a lot more. The descision was made that we were trying to do to much in too little time before the opening, and we needed to tackle other tasks, so that's exactly what happened, and we stopped working on it.
- Paulie
I like the crossover design and Paulie's sketch. My vote is for Paulie's sketch, but there must be enough of a run up to clear the triple. Just my opinion.
I agree about the tripple. If we ended up going with that sketch design, I'd also like to move the tripple to the left a little to allow proper run up.
- Paulie
We had more dirt there and then it was reworked, I may have worked it wrong making it longer and flatter. We need more dirt on the first and the third, make them twice as tall as they are now.
watching other tracks on youtube, I have seen none that have a drastic jump that needs such a run up, let alone triples, the tracks seem to flow. The triple distrupts the fahrvernugen...
01-21-2010, 03:07 PM
#105
why are we all bickering? This is some he said she said Bullsh*t! Holy crap guys, nobody is perfect... you want a perfect smooth flowing track bring a pro in to build it. We are ameteurs, and our track is built as such. We learn from our design/build mistakes and when we all agree on a change, we make the changes.